Hello From Buffalo

[Cheesebeef]

All through 1999-2003 there was consideration that he was a pro-bowl caliber Tackle.

hey - I'm pleased as punch at how the draft shook out - but that doesn't mean I'm gonna start making bold faced lies about LJ. He was NEVER considered a pro-bowl caliber T by anyone but the extreme kool-aiders on this board.

 

[joeshmo]

All through 1999-2003 there was consideration that he was a pro-bowl caliber Tackle.

Kool-aid overload alert.

1999 - he only played half of the season and still allowed 5 sacks and had 4 penalties.

2002 - No way in heck was he even close to being considered a pro bowler, a guy that allows 9 sacks, has 3 penalties, and isnt a great run blocker do not get considered for the pro bowl.

 

[ThunderCard]

Kool-aid overload alert.

1999 - he only played half of the season and still allowed 5 sacks and had 4 penalties.

2002 - No way in heck was he even close to being considered a pro bowler, a guy that allows 9 sacks, has 3 penalties, and isnt a great run blocker do not get considered for the pro bowl.

There are only 32 LT in the league ... You guys don't think he would grade out to be in the middle of that pack. Yeah the pro bowl thing might have been a little over board .... I will watch where I walk from now on ... I think I got caught up in all that LJ sucks talk and wanted to fire back

 

[ThunderCard]

Where are you guys getting all the sack info from. I was on a internet site a little while ago that had those stats, but I can not find it again ...

 

[Ryanwb]

There are only 32 LT in the league ...

So if a team loses a LT to injury that's it, there is nobody to take his place

 

[Compa]

I appreciate Bills_phan's opinions, and I can see where he's coming from. If my team had a pro bowl back (have we ever had a pro bowl back?) and people thought that a tackle on a team that's been bad since he arrived (and is no longer wanted by the coaches) was of equal value, I think I would think those people were crazy.

That being said, I am relieved that we didn't get Henry, and I hope Shelton works out.

Good luck Bills_phan.

 

[Kolo]

He was NEVER considered a pro-bowl caliber T by anyone but the extreme kool-aiders on this board.

In other words, almost everybody.

 

[AJZ]

AJZ,
I also think the reason you and other Bills fans were getting so much static was due to past Cards mistakes. Teams in the past have walked all over us in the draft and trades and this time with Denny here it did not happen. I actually like the Bills board and the people over there were really nice when we played last year. I hope the best for the Bills and hope you understand that we were tired of being pushed around by bad trades. TD sort of came off strong and made our best O-Lineman besides BIG look weak so that is why a lot of us probably took it personally.

After all that is said I hope the Bill's take Anthony Clement and start him on you're left side.

After the way you described Clement in the other thread, I'll shoot myself if the Bills pick this guy up. I just assume see him go to the Jests to play with Kendall.

As for your history with the draft and trades, that's understandable. Honestly, and I swear this is not a flame, I give you guys a lot of credit for being as loyal as you are. There are a lot of Bills fans - and fans of other teams, too - who are nothing but bandwagon jumpers. No loyalty whatsoever. I think that is crap, man. I grew up in Upstate NY and the Bills will always be my team whether they are winning super bowls, losing them, not making them, going 0-16, whatever. Neither the Bills nor the Cards have exactly been among the league's elite for a while now.....so to be a fan of either team shows a lot of loyalty and class, in my opinion.

I don't see many of your games, but I remember fondly the game where Jake and the gang took out the Cowboys a while back. I friggin hate Dallas, and now that Drew is there it'll be even more fun hating them. Obvoiusly you guys aren't in that division any more, but the Cards have always been one of the NFC teams that I've rooted for. I love underdogs, and even though I'm not the biggest fan of Denny Green, I wouldn't mind seeing you guys make some noise this year.

 

[ThunderCard]

So if a team loses a LT to injury that's it, there is nobody to take his place

Yeah, but the conversation was about starting LT's

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Neither Shelton, Clement nor Henry were pursued by any other team enough for a trade to happen. There is no need for posturing anymore. Henry is a very good back - a pro-bowler. I know that because I've seen every professional game he's ever played and I'm partially happy he's still on my team. I hope he comes around and they can patch things up for 1 year, but it probably won't happen.

I wonder if you're happy that Shelton's still an Arizona Cardinal?

actually, most of the guys here like shelton. i'm not really one of 'em. i guess he's okay for depth, but i never really thought he had much value any longer. for a long time he was our best olineman, but the best of a terrible oline. reminds me of that guy zack on that television show "the average joe" - he looks around and realizes he's surrounded by dorks and then says, "crap, even though i'm king around here, i'm the king of the dorks!" that's lj in my mind. but i don't think he's nearly as disgruntled as is henry, so he shouldn't be as disruptive.

as for clement . . . stay away. he'll get losman killed.

 

[Russ Smith]

Actually I think I can explain why the best on the above, look at it this way currently:

Travis Henry = Proven Commodity, however injured and does have some fumbling problems, so he's not a lock to be a 1300 yard rusher again at this stage

Maurice Clarett = 1 Hit wonder in college, will that equate to the NFL no one knows for sure.

Basically both have risks and both could be solid backs, so the reason why you take Maurice instead of Henry?....




QUOTE]

The other obvious reason is Denver does not NEED Travis Henry, they have Tatum Bell who they think will be good, and they get Mike Anderson back. They were confident enough in their RB depth that they moved Droughns.

They don't need to deal for a guy who has one year left on his contract. Look at all the guys who have succeeded in Denver, every one of them has come out and demanded more money, Davis, Anderson,(forget the kid in between them who did it), Portis, now Droughns. If bell gets 1500 this year he'll be demanding more money too.

So why in the world would you trade for a guy who you know is already unhappy he's backing up McGahee and then create the same situation in Denver with Bell? LEt's say Henry beats out Bell or bell gets hurt again, and Henry has a big year. Again, all those other RB's demanded more money, Henry is in the last year of his contract, he already feels he was massively underpaid on his original contract, there's no way Denver is going to be able to keep him happy on a new deal so they'd let him walk and keep Bell.

It's a fact of life in Denver that they get their RB's cheaply. Until they can no longer run the ball effectively with anybody, they will continue to bring in guys drafted out of the first round, get them cheap, and then let them go when they demand more money.

 

[chickenhead]

You can't just say Travis is a proven commodity and a pro bowler and leave it at that. He's in the last year of a contract, and both re-signing him now and waiting to sign him have significant financial risk. He wasn't a pro bowler last year--we can't just assume he will be this year. Arrington costs less now, and it will cost less to lock him up for a few more years. We'll just have to wait and see how the Cards' running game shakes out.

 

[john h]

Signing Henry would have cost us a lot more money than JJ. If Arrington would have been gone , I still think this trade would have went down.

Cutting Shelton would cost us 3 mil. Cutting Clement will save us 3 mil, if I remember right.

So what good is all this "saved money" if we are not going to use it to improve the team. Perhaps it makes the Bidwills much happier but as a fan I could care less if we do not use the money to upgrade the team. I had rather keep Shelton than save the Bidwills money.

 

[Pariah]

I noticed that you guys just released Clement. Any opinion on his value or why he was released?

As a guy who still wants to keep Shelton, and wouldn't have screamed bloody murder if we'd kept Clemment, here's my take:

Clemment is a decent back-up that was making starter money. He's also a guy that Green seemed to have in his doghouse for much of last year. You add those two things up and it equals a pink-slip.

As for Shelton, he's an NFL starter. He's head and shoulders better than Clemment, so if he does get cut (which I think would be a monumental mistake), he WILL get picked up and WILL make whoever plays him a better team. I'm of the mindset that even with his pricetag we should hang on to him until some of our young pups across the line get a little more experience under their belt.

 

[bills_phan]

The other obvious reason is Denver does not NEED Travis Henry, they have Tatum Bell who they think will be good, and they get Mike Anderson back. They were confident enough in their RB depth that they moved Droughns.

They don't need to deal for a guy who has one year left on his contract. Look at all the guys who have succeeded in Denver, every one of them has come out and demanded more money, Davis, Anderson,(forget the kid in between them who did it), Portis, now Droughns. If bell gets 1500 this year he'll be demanding more money too.

So why in the world would you trade for a guy who you know is already unhappy he's backing up McGahee and then create the same situation in Denver with Bell? LEt's say Henry beats out Bell or bell gets hurt again, and Henry has a big year. Again, all those other RB's demanded more money, Henry is in the last year of his contract, he already feels he was massively underpaid on his original contract, there's no way Denver is going to be able to keep him happy on a new deal so they'd let him walk and keep Bell.

It's a fact of life in Denver that they get their RB's cheaply. Until they can no longer run the ball effectively with anybody, they will continue to bring in guys drafted out of the first round, get them cheap, and then let them go when they demand more money.

That's a great point.

 

[bills_phan]

As a guy who still wants to keep Shelton, and wouldn't have screamed bloody murder if we'd kept Clemment, here's my take:

Clemment is a decent back-up that was making starter money. He's also a guy that Green seemed to have in his doghouse for much of last year. You add those two things up and it equals a pink-slip.

As for Shelton, he's an NFL starter. He's head and shoulders better than Clemment, so if he does get cut (which I think would be a monumental mistake), he WILL get picked up and WILL make whoever plays him a better team. I'm of the mindset that even with his pricetag we should hang on to him until some of our young pups across the line get a little more experience under their belt.

Ask a simple question, and get a solid respons 38 posts later.

 

[JeffGollin]

As one who wanted us to draft LJ as high as 9 (instead of Boston), my take on him is (1) he certainly didn't deliver on #9 potential as a LT, (2) he was probably good value in the mid 20's where we drafted him, (3) maybe he's better than some of us think. Maybe he's worse, but in any case, the O-line he was playing on wasn't getting the job done and the coaches fairly or unfairly held him accountable for some of this.

Secondly, I hear the Cards are still trying to trade him (& don't be surprised if they do). But if not, they'll keep him til after June 1 to lessen the cap hit and then the likelihood he'll be released is quite probable.

I may be wrong, but I suspect that the feeling among the coaches is that -winding up with a butt-kicking offensive line will entail a major overhaul of attitude (from somewhat passive to kickass). If all five starters we had didn't have a collective "go for the throat" attitude, you have to think the team is bringing guys who do.

No reflection on LJ personally. Sometimes you have to blow things up in order to effect a significant and personal change in a group.

 

[bills_phan]

As one who wanted us to draft LJ as high as 9 (instead of Boston), my take on him is (1) he certainly didn't deliver on #9 potential as a LT, (2) he was probably good value in the mid 20's where we drafted him, (3) maybe he's better than some of us think. Maybe he's worse, but in any case, the O-line he was playing on wasn't getting the job done and the coaches fairly or unfairly held him accountable for some of this.

Secondly, I hear the Cards are still trying to trade him (& don't be surprised if they do). But if not, they'll keep him til after June 1 to lessen the cap hit and then the likelihood he'll be released is quite probable.

I may be wrong, but I suspect that the feeling among the coaches is that -winding up with a butt-kicking offensive line will entail a major overhaul of attitude (from somewhat passive to kickass). If all five starters we had didn't have a collective "go for the throat" attitude, you have to think the team is bringing guys who do.

No reflection on LJ personally. Sometimes you have to blow things up in order to effect a significant and personal change in a group.

Well, if you're right, and they end up releasing Shelton as well, it kind of justifies the Bills unwillingness to trade Travis for LJ straight up.

Note to pissed off Cards fans: This is not an attack on Denny, Bidwill, your team or organization. It's simply an after-the-fact analysis of the ramifications of the non-trade.

I should make this disclaimer part of my signiture!

 

[Russ Smith]

Well, if you're right, and they end up releasing Shelton as well, it kind of justifies the Bills unwillingness to trade Travis for LJ straight up.

Note to pissed off Cards fans: This is not an attack on Denny, Bidwill, your team or organization. It's simply an after-the-fact analysis of the ramifications of the non-trade.

I should make this disclaimer part of my signiture!

It does and it doesn't. Remember, Buffalo could have gotten LJ for Henry, if the Cards cut LJ, and I've said before we probably will end up doing so I don't see Green keeping him as a reserve, then Buffalo has to sign him.

Buffalo could have made SURE they got him, if he's cut they can either claim him, or wait until he's cleared and then compete with any other teams for him. I'd bet anything there's more interest in him as a UFA than there was in trade, teams were waiting for Green to cut him.

If Buffalo winds up signing LJ, by all means TD made a good decision, but what if LJ is mad that TD didn't make that deal, takes it personally, and doesn't want to play for Buffalo anymore? You certainly didn't get a LT in the draft. He took a big risk, the outcome hasn't been determined yet.

 

[Syracusecards]

No I am not getting things screwed up.

Buffalo offensive line was good.

Travis Henry is a marginal starter playing behind a good offensive line.

I am not talking about the Cardinals.

I have to disagree with you on this. They've had one of the worst o-lines in football for many years. Ruben Brown was their stalwart for awhile and made probowls, but he was way overrated when he was there.

 

[bills_phan]

It does and it doesn't. Remember, Buffalo could have gotten LJ for Henry, if the Cards cut LJ, and I've said before we probably will end up doing so I don't see Green keeping him as a reserve, then Buffalo has to sign him.

Buffalo could have made SURE they got him, if he's cut they can either claim him, or wait until he's cleared and then compete with any other teams for him. I'd bet anything there's more interest in him as a UFA than there was in trade, teams were waiting for Green to cut him.

If Buffalo winds up signing LJ, by all means TD made a good decision, but what if LJ is mad that TD didn't make that deal, takes it personally, and doesn't want to play for Buffalo anymore? You certainly didn't get a LT in the draft. He took a big risk, the outcome hasn't been determined yet.

I agree with your rationale. The truth, as it turns out, is that Buffalo didn't want him after all and were just after a draft pick.

 

[bills_phan]

I have to disagree with you on this. They've had one of the worst o-lines in football for many years. Ruben Brown was their stalwart for awhile and made probowls, but he was way overrated when he was there.

Very true.

 

[Stout]

I agree with your rationale. The truth, as it turns out, is that Buffalo didn't want him after all and were just after a draft pick.

Actually, TD was reportedly trying to call the Cards war room about him, and we wouldn't even return his calls, so we know nothing of the sort.

 

[bills_phan]

Actually, TD was reportedly trying to call the Cards war room about him, and we wouldn't even return his calls, so we know nothing of the sort.

Who's to say they were calling about Shelton and not a draft pick?

Anyway, I'm out of here for good now!

For some of you, it was fun. Catch you ******* on the flip-side. Peace!

 

[Syracusecards]

All I can say is:


Trey Teague as LT + JP Losman = Kelly Holcomb as your starting QB by game 3.
Trey Teague as LT + Kelly Holcomb = Shane Matthews as your starting QB ny game 6.