Hey Laker fans

[elindholm]

I didn't dig it so much, no.

You're right, I phrased it wrong. What I really meant was, if the Lakers win 120-110, will you deny that the win existed? Because, you know, Defense Wins Championships, and you can't allow a team to score 110 or shoot 50%, and so on and so on.

But anyway, I guess the answer to my original question is No, there is no outcome that will allow us to reject that tired, brainless cliche. A pity. I'd actually be satisfied with the Lakers winning every Finals game by 140-130 if it would only get people to start using their heads when they talk about the various ways a team can be good.

 

[D-Dogg]

I'd actually be satisfied with the Lakers winning every Finals game by 140-130 if it would only get people to start using their heads when they talk about the various ways a team can be good.

Ok, deal.

I'll just say the other team's defense sucked.

 

[Bert]

You're right, I phrased it wrong. What I really meant was, if the Lakers win 120-110, will you deny that the win existed? Because, you know, Defense Wins Championships, and you can't allow a team to score 110 or shoot 50%, and so on and so on.

But anyway, I guess the answer to my original question is No, there is no outcome that will allow us to reject that tired, brainless cliche. A pity. I'd actually be satisfied with the Lakers winning every Finals game by 140-130 if it would only get people to start using their heads when they talk about the various ways a team can be good.

Elindholm, that cliche is all over sports and it doesn't always prove correct. Look no further than Superbowl XLIII Cardinals/Steelers.

The EXALTED Steeler D gave up 2 late touchdowns to the Cardinals. Epic Fail. Game over.

How did they win that game again?

 

[Tyler]

Elindholm, look no further than Superbowl XLIII Cardinals/Steelers.

The EXALTED Steeler D gave up 2 late touchdowns to the Cardinals. Epic Fail. Game over.

How did they win that game again?

SHHHHHH

 

[D-Dogg]

And in the first two games, it was the Laker defense doing that. Isn't that always true?

I want to come back to this point. In the first two games, the Suns scored above their average or at it. The Lakers scored about 20 points over their average and won.

The Lakers are still scoring a bit over their average, and the Suns are also scoring over their average as well. The Suns scoring has been fairly consistent in this series, while the Lakers has been up and down, and at all times they are playing way over their heads. If they focused on defense more, and brought down the scoring, they win this series going away. They haven't done that, and when they have won it is because they simply clicked on offense well via their mismatches against a team they can score higher against. The Suns took those away with the zone.

Even if the Lakers win, it won't be because they get back to scoring 120 plus points a game...that's not their style. They will win by holding Phx around the 98-105 range. If the Suns keep scoring in the 112-118 range, you guys will be in the Finals. I have no doubts about that at all.

 

[Bert]

SHHHHHH

lol, trust me I feel the pain.

 

[dodie53]

crazy sig mojo

 

[elindholm]

The Lakers are still scoring a bit over their average, and the Suns are also scoring over their average as well. The Suns scoring has been fairly consistent in this series, while the Lakers has been up and down, and at all times they are playing way over their heads....

Blah, blah, blah. Yes, you're right, of course. But you know perfectly well that that's not what people usually mean by the cliche. They mean that a team that gives up 100 every game on 50% shooting is, by definition, not a contender.

If the Suns keep scoring in the 112-118 range, you guys will be in the Finals. I have no doubts about that at all.

Wow, I hope you're right. My feeling is that the Suns will score 110+ almost automatically, unless the officials absolutely hang them out to dry, which is possible. Phoenix should win if they can hold the Lakers to 105. Of course, that hasn't happened yet, even once.

 

[chickenhead]

I don't think you can specifically use point totals to determine offense/defense. I'd go more with percentages at least. It's like saying Gretzky's Oilers didn't have good defensemen because they routinely won games 5-3 and 6-4. The pace was different.

 

[D-Dogg]

Blah, blah, blah. Yes, you're right, of course. But you know perfectly well that that's not what people usually mean by the cliche. They mean that a team that gives up 100 every game on 50% shooting is, by definition, not a contender.



Wow, I hope you're right. My feeling is that the Suns will score 110+ almost automatically, unless the officials absolutely hang them out to dry, which is possible. Phoenix should win if they can hold the Lakers to 105. Of course, that hasn't happened yet, even once.

In the three wins in the regular season, the Lakers held the Suns to 102, 96 and 88 points, while scoring over 100 each time. In the Suns win, they scored 118 to the Lakers 103 (which would have been enough to beat the Suns in each of the previous three games).

The Lakers aren't a 120 a game scoring team. The fact that the Suns have scored at will is the one thing that gives me worries, and why I wrote the post that cheesey thinks was condescending. FFS, I took heat on Lakers forums for that post, and on the Suns forum...so I think I must have been right on line. Game 2, when the Suns went on their run and tied the game the Lakers were able to quash the run and push out the win. Games 3 and 4 were like mirror images of that game, because the Suns ride that home crowd like no other, and they push runs. My EXACT fears. Lakers didn't play defense, and left the perimeter open and they got burned for it.

Lakers are solid at home, and are in strong position to win Game 5. They had better do it with defense, though, because the Suns best sixth man is confidence and they are trying to stuff him in their suitcases right now. "Outscore 'em" isn't the strategy that will win Game 5 for the Lakers.

Defense is.

 

[nashman]

Donald you and your Lakers just better hope that our bench hasn't officially got over the clear nervousness of being in the conference finals like games 1 and 2. The bench came to play and if they come to play in LA we can easily win there as well...(with exception the officials decide to play LA homers).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Are you going to put that in your will so your great-grandkids can carry it out for you?

:head2head:

ooooh, this is the first time i've seen donald get a little testy. nice. now we're under kobe's AND donald's skin. me likey.

 

[jagu]

The Suns should have went to the zone in the 4th quarter in Game 2. We'd have a 3-1 lead right now...

 

[D-Dogg]

ooooh, this is the first time i've seen donald get a little testy. nice. now we're under kobe's AND donald's skin. me likey.

Tyler and I have been testy all along. All in pseudojest. I just couldn't resist that wide open door he left me and had to step up my game.

 

[D-Dogg]

Donald you and your Lakers just better hope that our bench hasn't officially got over the clear nervousness of being in the conference finals like games 1 and 2. The bench came to play and if they come to play in LA we can easily win there as well...(with exception the officials decide to play LA homers).

Meh. Road and home are different beasts, especially for your bench. Dudders had a great game 2, and didn't jumpstart the Suns. May happen, but I don't think it will. Comes down to the Lakers holding your whole team to less than a billion. And you should be expecting heavy home cooking game in Game 5 after what you got for yourselves in Game 4. Sucks, but it is what it is.

 

[Bert]

Meh. Road and home are different beasts, especially for your bench. Dudders had a great game 2, and didn't jumpstart the Suns. May happen, but I don't think it will. Comes down to the Lakers holding your whole team to less than a billion. And you should be expecting heavy home cooking game in Game 5 after what you got for yourselves in Game 4. Sucks, but it is what it is.

LoL, the Laker fan motto. When they lose, the other team got all the calls. When they win, it is what it is. Because clearly the only way the Lakers could possibly lose is if the officials gave the game to the other team right?

I agree with most everything you said except for that. What did we "get for ourselves" in game 4?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Tyler and I have been testy all along. All in pseudojest. I just couldn't resist that wide open door he left me and had to step up my game.

right... you've been testy with everyone since the 4th quarter of last night's game.

 

[SirStefan32]

LoL, the Laker fan motto. When they lose, the other team got all the calls. When they win, it is what it is. Because clearly the only way the Lakers could possibly lose is if the officials gave the game to the other team right?

I agree with most everything you said except for that. What did we "get for ourselves" in game 4?

Dude, Suns fans on this board can not give anybody crap for blaming the refs. Every time we lose, people cry about officiating. I am not saying Laker fans here are not a bunch of crybabies, but they aren't much worse than the Suns fans after a loss.

 

[AzStevenCal]

And you should be expecting heavy home cooking game in Game 5 after what you got for yourselves in Game 4. Sucks, but it is what it is.

We've played the Lakers 16 thousand times and we got "home cooking" for the better part of 12 minutes and you think that makes it your turn? I'm sure the Lakers will once again have the refs sniffing their jocks but it's a far cry from the "what goes around comes around" that you imply. We'll face a tough test from both the Lakers and the refs but that's the combination we're most used to when we play LA.

Steve

 

[Bert]

Dude, Suns fans on this board can not give anybody crap for blaming the refs. Every time we lose, people cry about officiating. I am not saying Laker fans here are not a bunch of crybabies, but they aren't much worse than the Suns fans after a loss.

I will give you that.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

He's been the best player in the series by a pretty wide margin.

Totally agree. Its been like watching MJ in the 90's. Its just a helpless feeling and he is playing so intelligently. He's unequivically amazing.

Last night he may have been the best player on the court but the next ten best players were all wearing Phoenix jerseys.

 

[TucsonDevil]

What will Lakers' fans do if the following occurs in Game 5:

Suns score 101
Lakers shoot 29 free throws
Lakers out rebound the Suns
Kobe scores 35
Lakers lose the game by 9

Will they then say - we can only win with better offense? Personally, I hope the Suns score 120+ and win. It will be a great game.

BTW, Kobe is the typical playground bully, except he uses the little girls' restroom instead of the men's.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I'm reading this Eric/Donald debate and want to point to one thing. Sometimes the type of offense you play effects what level of defense you are able to play.

You don't see many games that are 120 - 81 and there is a reason for it. When you commit to getting up and down you a) increase the possessions b) fatigue sets in and c) get pulled into the tempo game.

So I kind of think the premise of this thread is unfair. I think potentially the Lakers can win this series by outscoring us and then go to the Finals and win a bunch of 91-85 games against the Celtics.

Thats not because they suck at D necessairly. Its because those are the type of game they are going to be playing. And the great teams (like the Spurs earlier in the decade) can fluctuate between either style when its dictated to win the game.

Defense is a relative term.

 

[TucsonDevil]

I'm reading this Eric/Donald debate and want to point to one thing. Sometimes the type of offense you play effects what level of defense you are able to play.

You don't see many games that are 120 - 81 and there is a reason for it. When you commit to getting up and down you a) increase the possessions

SSSHHH, you are ruining the credibility of all the ESPN analysts on how the Suns are a poor defensive team.

 

[D-Dogg]

right... you've been testy with everyone since the 4th quarter of last night's game.

Testy? Jeez, cheeze. I can be testy - that wasn't testy.