Hey Laker fans

[nashman]

Can't reason with a Laker fan seeing what he wants to see! Donald you were clearly watching a different game than everyone else including the officials. If you think the Lakeshow was the aggressor last night not sure what else to say your a bit delusional, again Kobe was the only aggressive Laker in the game all night don't give me the crap that the refs didn't allow the Lakers to be aggressive! We all know that is pure crap the Lakers are ALWAYS allowed to be overly aggressive and still get the calls...fact is they WERE NOT last night simple as that.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I have always winced over the years when I heard Suns fans moan about the refs and Donaghy time and time again. The reality is over the years, the aggressors get the calls and while there are bad calls every game, more often then not they even out. Previously the Suns never had the mental toughness to overcome those percieved bad calls and thats their fault.

Reading a Lakers fan complain about the officiating is 10 times more unbecoming. Seriously? The most blessed franchise in the history of the sport is going to complain about calls when it was quite obvious the Suns were the aggressors last night and playing with more grit???

This is like Prince William of England complaining about how tough his life is. Get over it.

I am sure a couple calls did go against the Lakers. Thats life when your playing at home in the NBA and the crowd is going crazy.

And furthermore Derek Fisher is a complete punk. He's got a lot more Bruce Bowen in him then anyone in LA would ever admit.

 

[D-Dogg]

Thats life when your playing at home in the NBA and the crowd is going crazy.

Exactly. Pretty much what I said. You have to play through it, and the Lakers didn't...Pau shriveled up and started shooting from the outside. Then he stopped playing alltogether. Is what it is, and if the Lakers had played some D, they'd have been right there. It's on them, not the refs

 

[ASUCHRIS]

And furthermore Derek Fisher is a complete punk. He's got a lot more Bruce Bowen in him then anyone in LA would ever admit.

It's just hilarious that Lakers fans could seriously complain about the reffing, especially in regard to Gasol. Gasol hacks the crap out of Amare on almost every possession, and you might as well give Nash a saddle with how Fisher has been riding and hacking the entire series. If Fisher didn't grab and hack every possession, he wouldn't even be in the league.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Exactly. Pretty much what I said. You have to play through it, and the Lakers didn't...Pau shriveled up and started shooting from the outside. Then he stopped playing alltogether. Is what it is, and if the Lakers had played some D, they'd have been right there. It's on them, not the refs

The good news for you is that 2 of the next 3 are in LA.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I think I already said it isn't the refs fault... Pau was probably fouled 12 times alone, and it definitely affected him. That's PAU'S fault, not the refs'. But don't act like your team's 12 fouls were in any way a realistic measure. That's funny man. Hilarious. The non-calls took the big out of the game mentally, and once he had a clear path to the rim and jacked up a brick instead.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You claim it wasn't the refs fault, but continue to assert because of the way the game was called, that it completely changed the game.

 

[D-Dogg]

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You claim it wasn't the refs fault, but continue to assert because of the way the game was called, that it completely changed the game.

Nope, it's the reality of sports. You can either man up when calls don't go your way, or you can shrivel. Pau shriveled, and made it worse for the Lakers.

Refs sucking and making bad calls is a constant - playing through calls is part of playing the game. Again, despite bad calls, the Lakers were there in the end, two possession game, and couldn't get stops because their D can't stop the Suns, plain and simple.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Nope, it's the reality of sports. You can either man up when calls don't go your way, or you can shrivel. Pau shriveled, and made it worse for the Lakers.

Refs sucking and making bad calls is a constant - playing through calls is part of playing the game. Again, despite bad calls, the Lakers were there in the end, two possession game, and couldn't get stops because their D can't stop the Suns, plain and simple.

Pau was fouled at least TWELVE TIMES?!

Jesus, you've really gone to the darkside haven't you? You started it with your condescending thread and have now blown up full blast to rival that Game-2-National-Anthem-singing-while-wearing-shades-on-inside-Uber-Laker-Douche. That happened right quick!

Cry me a river whining boy. Good lord... a Laker fan bitching about the refs... like a 12 year old... Pau got fouled TWELVE TIMES!!! WAAAA!!!!

 

[D-Dogg]

Pau was fouled at least TWELVE TIMES?!

Jesus, you've really gone to the darkside haven't you? You started it with your condescending thread and have now blown up full blast to rival that Game-2-National-Anthem-singing-while-wearing-shades-on-inside-Uber-Laker-Douche. That happened right quick!

Cry me a river whining boy. Good lord... a Laker fan bitching about the refs... like a 12 year old... Pau got fouled TWELVE TIMES!!! WAAAA!!!!

LOL about the "condescending thread." It happened to be dead on the money, for the EXACT reasons I expressed concerns. I caught hell on Lakers boards for it, and from some of you Suns fans for it. So it must have been right on.

 

[mojorizen7]

You really are on another planet Donald. Watching the momentum slowly swing in favor of the SUNS until the elimination game(like the Portland & Spurs series did) seems to have gone to your head.

Home cooking is a legit truth in the NBA playoffs i agree...i also agree that NBA officiating is crap from top to bottom,but you really can't see how this series has evolved thru 4 games?

The LAKERS need to find a way to get back into running their offense....and as you said repeatedly the LAKERS "D" has to step up big time.

When the series began it was:
Defensively
Shutdown JRich,cover the 3ball and overwhelm Amare in the paint with your size,force the SUNS bench to make big plays........whats the defensive plan now?

Offensively
Go inside to Gasol,Bynum and get Amare in foul trouble. Control the glass with your size & control the tempo. Let Kobe play relaxed,catch the SUNS in bad matchups all over the court(especially with Odum).
The SUNS zone "D" angle has been overhyped(i admit, because we're simply playing more aggressively than you guys at this point after the gm 1 debacle) but why wasn't it solved or at least debugged in gm 4?

You may disagree with my version of PJ's original gameplan going into this series and thats ok,you know your team better than i do....but i don't see how you cannot see how this thing has flipped in favor of the SUNS. Not only in terms of homecooking momentum but pure matchups and coaching. You guys obviously aren't on your heels yet but i'll bet you that the LAKERS felt like they'd be heading home for gm 5 with just about everything under the sun/SUNS(sorry) in their favor at this point.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The good news for you is that 2 of the next 3 are in LA.

Or maybe not. We'll be playing at home against Boston or at Orlando by the time that 3rd game gets here.

Steve

 

[D-Dogg]

When the series began it was:
Defensively
Shutdown JRich,cover the 3ball and overwhelm Amare in the paint with your size,force the SUNS bench to make big plays........whats the defensive plan now?

I completely agree with you...that was exactly the plan. They did ok with that, but not well enough. Defensive game plan now? Stick with that plan...in response to Amare's big game, they have started to help down more and roam off the three point shooters. Bad move, especially against the Suns at home.

Offensively Go inside to Gasol,Bynum and get Amare in foul trouble. Control the glass with your size & control the tempo. Let Kobe play relaxed,catch the SUNS in bad matchups all over the court(especially with Odum).
The SUNS zone "D" angle has been overhyped(i admit, because we're simply playing more aggressively than you guys at this point after the gm 1 debacle) but why wasn't it solved or at least debugged in gm 4?

Same plan on offense...offensively, the Lakers have scored well in every game, though Kobe had two masterpieces in the last two games while the rest of the team not named Pau crumbled in Game 3 and everyone not named Kobe went ghost in Game 4. But yet they are still scoring. It comes down to D, still. More hustle, more scrapping for loose balls, more boxing out. It is atrocious that we have allowed so many boards while you guys are zoning...mindboggling. That's a "want to" problem right there.

You may disagree with my version of PJ's original gameplan going into this series and thats ok,you know your team better than i do....but i don't see how you cannot see how this thing has flipped in favor of the SUNS. Not only in terms of homecooking momentum but pure matchups and coaching. You guys obviously aren't on your heels yet but i'll bet you that the LAKERS felt like they'd be heading home for gm 5 with just about everything under the sun/SUNS(sorry) in their favor at this point.

No, we agree pretty much on the gameplan. I said at the outset of this series that both teams had major matchups to exploit and it would come down to who exploited theirs better. So far, both teams have done it.

I don't think anything has flipped...it's a 2-2 series, teams have held home court using their strengths. I think the Lakers were confident they'd get a split, and they failed. But look back at how many times this team has been in the 2-2 game 5 scenario at home...they know this feeling and this game. It seems to be when they gather up their shorts and bring it. I think everyone on the planet knows that if the Suns steal game 5, they are about a 90% lock to win the series in 6. Lakers will have the urgency, and are on their home floor. It's the reason you play a god-awful long schedule to secure crucial games happening on your home court.

It will be a tough game, and confidence doesn't always travel in the suitcase with the visiting team. We'll see tomorrow.

 

[jagu]

The Lakers aren't holding the Suns to below 100 points, the Suns bench blew chunks in game 1 and 2 and we still scored 100+. The Lakers should aim for 110+ if they want to bea the Suns in Game 5. And the Suns d should hold the lakers to 100-107 points for any shot of victory IMO.

This is starting to remind me of the Spurs series where all the games ended with similar final scores. Like there was a cap of points the Suns were willing to give up and anything at or below that would mean a Suns victory.

I hope the Suns play with passion. If they lose, lose trying. Don't be scared and throw up ugly clankers and play bad defense. You don't get shots like this often , take it and go far.

 

[MrYeahBut]

And now you base your arguments on announcers? Marv? Oh, wow. Precious.

I rely on the announcers. If Marv wears the same orange thong he wore to game 4, the series is ours

 

[Jay Cardinal]

again, a complete joke. And another reason the 32 - 13 FT disparity looks lopsided is because the Lakers intentionally fouled the last 90 seconds of the game putting us to the line 6-8 times in the last minute.

Sorry, y'all shot jumpers, stupid foot on the line jumpers and Pau barely even touched the ball and when he did, he looked petrified.

All the announcers talked about during and after the game was how Kobe had to carry them because no one else was being aggressive and all Kobe was doing was burying jumpers at a scary pace.

But keep blaming the refs, true colors shining through...

I've noticed Lakers fans seem to forget about all of the intentional fouls. How can you blame the refs for calling fouls when half of them where intentional, on Nash, and near the end of the game.

Its in very poor taste to whine about the number of calls against your team when you have spent the last two minutes of each game fouling a 94% free throw shooter in the backcourt. The best part is if they didnt call the intentional fouls on the Lakers, they would have whined they were not given an oppurtunity at the end. So it looks like a Heads I win, Tails you lose for the Lakers in respect to the officiating.

I do think some of the Lakers fans need to take off the purple and gold covered glasses. Listen to your superstar Kobe Bryant. The Lakers are getting worked because of the effort on the defensive end. Not because of the officials. If the Lakers take all of the energy they spent on whining and complaing and expend it on defending the Suns, I do think they can still win this series.

 

[justAndy]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that we have AZ Cardinals fans that are - (gag) Laker Fans also - how do you do it?

 

[chickenhead]

I've noticed Lakers fans seem to forget about all of the intentional fouls. How can you blame the refs for calling fouls when half of them where intentional, on Nash, and near the end of the game.

This is just a great point in general. Fans notice a lot of calls going for the other team because they don't want them to. They already think it's the difference in a close game, and then their team having to foul at the end just skews the stats even more when they go to find evidence of something they already think.

 

[Covert Rain]

In all seriousness, I hope we can agree on one thing:

No matter who wins this series, if that team then goes on to win the Finals, can we please put the idiotic "Defense Wins Championships" mantra to rest? Because it's obvious that both of these teams are offensively oriented -- and you know what, they're both pretty darn good. The lowest score by either team through four games was the Lakers' 106 tonight. Both teams can be competent defensively, through stretches, but neither has a strong defensive identity.

So, deal? Really, I mean it.

First off it...NO. If you look at the last decade the best defensive teams have made it the furthest in the playoffs. Secondly, I still think it applies to teams that play "enough" defense. Meaning they have the ability to get stops down the stretch. The Suns have proven that they can. The teams that play better defense are still winning the majority of all these playoff games.

That saying doesn't mean that a team is the best in the NBA at defense wins titles. It simply means that in a given match-up, the team that can usually play the better defense will win. You still have to be able to put the ball in the bucket to win ofcourse.

Did you hear Gentry's press conference? He said the difference the past two games has been when the team gets stops it allows them to have a better rhythm when they get the the ball back down the court. They can push the ball a little more and not allow the Lakers to set defensively even when it's not a fastbreak. Again...Gentry credits the defense for setting up the offense.

The Lakers played horrible defense the last 2 games and we won. The Suns played better defense. If this saying wasn't true D'Antoni would have won about 3 titles while he was here. Those teams couldn't get stops when it counted.

The saying has nothing to do with your ranking in the defensive stats. It has more to do with can you play better defense then the other team you are facing the playoffs when it counts.

Sorry but defense does win championships.

 

[Covert Rain]

In all seriousness, I hope we can agree on one thing:

No matter who wins this series, if that team then goes on to win the Finals, can we please put the idiotic "Defense Wins Championships" mantra to rest? Because it's obvious that both of these teams are offensively oriented -- and you know what, they're both pretty darn good. The lowest score by either team through four games was the Lakers' 106 tonight. Both teams can be competent defensively, through stretches, but neither has a strong defensive identity.

So, deal? Really, I mean it.

First off it...NO. If you look at the last decade the best defensive teams have made it the furthest in the playoffs. Secondly, I still think it applies to teams that play "enough" defense. Meaning they have the ability to get stops down the stretch. The Suns have proven that they can. The teams that play better defense are still winning the majority of all these playoff games.

That saying doesn't mean that a team is the best in the NBA at defense wins titles. It simply means that in a given matchup, the team that can usually plays the better defense will win. You still have to be able to put the ball in the bucket to win ofcourse.

Did you hear Gentry's press conference? He said the difference the past two games has been when the team get's stops it allows them to have a better rhythm when they get the the ball back down the court. Again...Gentry credits the defense for setting up the offense.

The Lakers played horrible defense the last 2 games and we won. The Suns played better defense. If this saying wasn't true D'Antoni would have won about 3 titles while he was here. Those teams couldn't get stops when it counted.

The saying has nothing to do with your ranking in the defensive stats. It has more to do with can you play better defense then the other team you are facing the playoffs when it counts.

Sorry but defense does win championships. The more you have the better the chances are of success.

 

[tobiazz]

Sorry but defense does win championships. The more you have the better the chances are of success.

Point differential wins championships.

 

[Chaplin]

Defense HELPS win championships. Scoring more points than the opposing team wins championships. You can't have one without the other.

That absurd saying implies that offense doesn't matter. That's simply ridiculous.

 

[jagu]

I think coaching wins championships. In the NBA , the coach that can make the key adjustments during a series, game, to counter the opposing team's strategy wins games. Gentry has shown that he can outfox coaches, see Popovich. Let's see if he can do that again with Jackson , the beneficiary of superstar after superstar. How rare is it you see a ******* coach win the NBA championship?

Of course you need competent players who have the ability to make these adjustments as well. I want to see Phil Jackson take a team that isn't as talented as the Bulls, Lakers and win. Having Jordan and Kobe makes coaching a lot lot easier.

 

[slinslin]

The only reason that there is some truth to the "defense wins championships" formula is that it is a lot easier to consistently play defense than offense.

On offense you rely on making jumpers, nerves can get you or just a bad day. Defense is just effort hustle and athletic ability. There are a lot less intangibles that influences a defensive minded team.

 

[ndjmc]

Champions win championships

 

[D-Dogg]

I've noticed Lakers fans seem to forget about all of the intentional fouls. How can you blame the refs for calling fouls when half of them where intentional, on Nash, and near the end of the game.

They already think it's the difference in a close game, and then their team having to foul at the end just skews the stats even more when they go to find evidence of something they already think.

Aaaahh, see, this is a point I am not trying to make. I am not concerned with the calls that were made when we sent you to the line. I'm concerned with the non-calls, especially in the tone-setting first quarter. Which is why I talk about your 12 fouls, not the ones we made. I don't have an issue with the number of FTs taken by the Suns, but that calls weren't made on the other end.

And as to "fault?"

Refs allow a game with a lot of contact from the outset, and the Suns take advantage...the Lakers DO NOT, and don't test the refs on their end. The fault lies with the Lakers.

Non-calls on Pau, and they were there and several, made him shrivel up and stay away from the rim. Later in the game, he got a clear path to the hole and shot an elbow jumper and missed. Fault of the refs? NO, fault of Pau.

Non-calls should tell the Lakers to be more aggressive on the other end and test the game. They didn't, and played weak D. Fault = Lakers.

Refs allowed contact, so Suns players pushed it and were aggressive on traps, VERY aggressive on boards (jrich slamming pau in the back on a board, example) and brought it hard. Credit = Suns.

Bad calls were made, but the Lakers didn't try at the other end to meet the aggression level of the Suns, so they didn't get the balance of them...that's the fault of the Lakers and to the credit of the Suns, but the crappy officiating was there. The tone was set early, Pau went ghost because of it, and the Lakers couldn't, or wouldn't, play D. The way the game was called was certainly an aspect of it - doesn't mean by any stretch it is an excuse, just one of the many reasons.

BTW, Salvatore is one of the refs tonight...discuss.