Honest question.....who would pay to watch these guys??

[Errntknght]

Nothing is going bring the paying fans back in force except winning but I think the fans are going to enjoy the style of play this year. My guess is their favorite player will be Bledsoe - the way he plays defense makes it exciting. And we have some guys that will make a good supporting cast. They will want to see lots of Goodwin and probably Len, too. They'll like the sight of the big guys running the floor and slamming dunks.

Jimmer Fredette would be no more than a curiosity.

 

[Superbone]

Nothing is going bring the paying fans back in force except winning but I think the fans are going to enjoy the style of play this year. My guess is their favorite player will be Bledsoe - the way he plays defense makes it exciting. And we have some guys that will make a good supporting cast. They will want to see lots of Goodwin and probably Len, too. They'll like the sight of the big guys running the floor and slamming dunks.

Jimmer Fredette would be no more than a curiosity.

I agree. We're going to field a young, energetic team with an exciting brand of basketball. We're not going to win a lot of game but I think they'll be fun to watch and root for.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Your right you cant build around Jimmer but he would put fans in the stands and be can score at will even in the pros. That is what paying fans want when there is no hope of going to the playoffs. He comes in and plays 10 minutes and scores 10 points....we need that factor on this team. I will not pay to see Goran run up and down the court score and never reach the playoffs. I and many will with Jimmer and he would come cheap. Get a top pick for Goran and go get Jimmer

Jimmer? the guy is a complete non-factor in the NBA and I couldn't imagine him driving anyone to go to the games...except for maybe you. and he can score at will? what is this comment possibly based on? his 40% shooting or his whopping 7 ppg?

 

[SirStefan32]

Am I missing something here? Jimmermania? What planet is this on? For the life of me, I don't understand where this "Jimmermania" is? At best, Jimmer may become a Steve Kerr type of a player- I'd hardly see that as worthy of any sort of mania.

 

[Rats]

Jimmer? the guy is a complete non-factor in the NBA and I couldn't imagine him driving anyone to go to the games...except for maybe you. and he can score at will? what is this comment possibly based on? his 40% shooting or his whopping 7 ppg?

The comment was made based upon his being #1 in scoring vs minutes played last season. His 40% is respectable and 43% three ball is also on a bad team as the 2nd guard off the bench. The team was a disorganized mess under Smart who totally had no use for Jimmer. He is a non factor because of circumstance, much to the detriment of the Kings disorganization. With Mclemore drafted he will be moved and this team could use a solid 6th man IMO. He would sell tickets here whether anyone here believes it or not.

 

[Phrazbit]

The comment was made based upon his being #1 in scoring vs minutes played last season.

No he wasnt. I think your mixing up what happened on your playstation with what happened in reality.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The comment was made based upon his being #1 in scoring vs minutes played last season. His 40% is respectable and 43% three ball is also on a bad team as the 2nd guard off the bench. The team was a disorganized mess under Smart who totally had no use for Jimmer. He is a non factor because of circumstance, much to the detriment of the Kings disorganization. With Mclemore drafted he will be moved and this team could use a solid 6th man IMO. He would sell tickets here whether anyone here believes it or not.

Why haven't all the other Mormons that have played in the league (Danny Ainge, Shawn Bradley, Tom Chambers, Travis Hansen, Casey Jacobsen, Greg Kite, Mark Madsen, Fred Roberts etc.)been such huge draws? I actually wouldn't mind us picking him up and giving him a chance but it has nothing to do with ticket sales. I think he has a chance of becoming a decent 6th man but I don't understand why you think he'll pack them in. History shows otherwise.

Steve

 

[Rats]

No he wasnt. I think your mixing up what happened on your playstation with what happened in reality.

BasketballReference.com I am pulling it from memory when I looked it up in June. Look it up for yourself I am not going to do it for you. Maybe not number one cant remember but very high up there per minutes played. Now your going to say he cant score given the opportunity? Look everyone has turned this into a Jimmer debate. I asked a simple question and offered one possible solution. The question stands. I can not imagine them drawing many fans this season with this team at present. Debate that.

 

[AzStevenCal]

BasketballReference.com I am pulling it from memory when I looked it up in June. Look it up for yourself I am not going to do it for you. Maybe not number one cant remember but very high up there per minutes played. Now your going to say he cant score given the opportunity? Look everyone has turned this into a Jimmer debate. I asked a simple question and offered one possible solution. The question stands. I can not imagine them drawing many fans this season with this team at present. Debate that.

You won't find a debate for that IMO. We all agree that this team will suffer on the court and at the gate. I just don't think there is a quick fix, it took us several years to work ourselves into this situation and it will take a couple of years to work out of it. Trying for the quick fix will likely backfire, IMO.

Steve

 

[Rats]

Why haven't all the other Mormons that have played in the league (Danny Ainge, Shawn Bradley, Tom Chambers, Travis Hansen, Casey Jacobsen, Greg Kite, Mark Madsen, Fred Roberts etc.)been such huge draws? I actually wouldn't mind us picking him up and giving him a chance but it has nothing to do with ticket sales. I think he has a chance of becoming a decent 6th man but I don't understand why you think he'll pack them in. History shows otherwise.

Steve

The other players were not the same Animal coming out of College that Jimmer was. I concede he may not pack them in but he had a huge following out of College and had he been in a good situation rather than the Kings he would have been a draw. His Kings jersey sales broke records after he was drafted. He has hardly been given an opportunity to play much. Really I had identified him as someone to pick up in a trade so we had a solid scorer off the bench as well as someone with a "Name". We lack both. Obviously would rather have Rondo but Jimmer was cheap

 

[elindholm]

BasketballReference.com I am pulling it from memory when I looked it up in June.

Usually the burden of proof lies with the party making the ridiculous claim.

But anyway, Fredette scored 24.5 points per 48 minutes last season. That was good for 46th in the league, in the same neighborhood as Isaiah Thomas (24.9) and Nate Robinson (24.7). #1 was someone named Henry Sims, who played a grand total of five minutes; following him were the usual suspects: Anthony (37.1), Durant (35.1), Bryant (34.0), James (34.0), Harden (32.5), Westbrook (31.9).

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/p...r-48-minutes/sort/avg48Points/qualified/false

Pro tip: When you've been exposed as not knowing what you're talking about, don't dig the hole deeper by throwing out more garbage information and daring everyone to refute it. Someone will.

 

[Phrazbit]

BasketballReference.com I am pulling it from memory when I looked it up in June. Look it up for yourself I am not going to do it for you. Maybe not number one cant remember but very high up there per minutes played. Now your going to say he cant score given the opportunity? Look everyone has turned this into a Jimmer debate. I asked a simple question and offered one possible solution. The question stands. I can not imagine them drawing many fans this season with this team at present. Debate that.

I did look it up, he is ranked 46th in points per minute, which at first glance might seem good, but when you remember that he does literally nothing else... and his scoring is not efficient anyway, its not good. Not only is he not among the league's best in the stat, he is fourth on the KINGS in points per minute.

You need to realize that whatever hype was attached to Jimmer coming out of college is looooong gone.

As for our attendance, I dont think anyone is claiming they will be a big draw. However, stupid gimmick moves will do nothing to fix that. A series of bad basketball decisions have led this team into the crapper, getting Jimmer and deciding to center our offense around him would be yet another awful basketball decision and would further erode the fan base. To sell tickets they need to either start winning games, develop a legit star or have this team play an exciting brand of basketball. And I know you think Jimmer could fit that role... but no one else does, he is a poor man's Steve Kerr. Could be a decent role player somewhere but no one is attending the game to watch him specifically.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The comment was made based upon his being #1 in scoring vs minutes played last season. His 40% is respectable and 43% three ball is also on a bad team as the 2nd guard off the bench. The team was a disorganized mess under Smart who totally had no use for Jimmer. He is a non factor because of circumstance, much to the detriment of the Kings disorganization. With Mclemore drafted he will be moved and this team could use a solid 6th man IMO. He would sell tickets here whether anyone here believes it or not.

In NO universe is a 40% shooting percentage respectable. And whatever measely number of Mormon tickets he would sell, they'd lose just as many for trading Dragic and deciding to feature a complete bust of a player, which is what Jimmer is at this point.

Seriously...people aren't going to come out to see a team get killed over and over again because the poor man's JJ Redick is suddenly on the team.

Whatever buzz Jimmer ever had buzzed off as he rotted in the bench for the last two years.

 

[Rats]

Usually the burden of proof lies with the party making the ridiculous claim.

But anyway, Fredette scored 24.5 points per 48 minutes last season. That was good for 46th in the league, in the same neighborhood as Isaiah Thomas (24.9) and Nate Robinson (24.7). #1 was someone named Henry Sims, who played a grand total of five minutes; following him were the usual suspects: Anthony (37.1), Durant (35.1), Bryant (34.0), James (34.0), Harden (32.5), Westbrook (31.9).

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/p...r-48-minutes/sort/avg48Points/qualified/false

Pro tip: When you've been exposed as not knowing what you're talking about, don't dig the hole deeper by throwing out more garbage information and daring everyone to refute it. Someone will.

I stand corrected as I did say I was going from memory. Maybe it was for off the bench players scoring per minutes played? I am not one for remembering statistics. No reason for you to be an ***** about it. I think Jimmer has value for this team we will agree to disagree if you think he does not.

 

[Rats]

In NO universe is a 40% shooting percentage respectable. And whatever measely number of Mormon tickets he would sell, they'd lose just as many for trading Dragic and deciding to feature a complete bust of a player, which is what Jimmer is at this point.

Seriously...people aren't going to come out to see a team get killed over and over again because the poor man's JJ Redick is suddenly on the team.

Well at least you said at this point and I was looking at him as a cheap pick up for a 6th man scoring role not a Featured player. I dispute that Dragic is a ticket seller. Not many clamor for his Jersey although I wasn't making this a Jimmer vs Dragic argument. Dragic is a fine player I think we could get a solid late 1st round pick for. I simply asked the question who is going to buy season tickets to see these guys. Not many.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well at least you said at this point and I was looking at him as a cheap pick up for a 6th man scoring role not a Featured player. I dispute that Dragic is a ticket seller. Not many clamor for his Jersey although I wasn't making this a Jimmer vs Dragic argument. Dragic is a fine player I think we could get a solid late 1st round pick for. I simply asked the question who is going to buy season tickets to see these guys. Not many.

Uh...I don't think Dragic is a ticket seller either, but trading him for essentially a "stunt" ain't gonna drive ticket sales. Suns fans ain't that stupid.

 

[Rats]

Uh...I don't think Dragic is a ticket seller either, but trading him for essentially a "stunt" ain't gonna drive ticket sales. Suns fans ain't that stupid.

I did not say anywhere to trade Dragic for Jimmer. I would run Bledsoe and Goodwin with Jimmer sixth man off the bench. I don't think that would be a stunt. I said Dragic could get us a a solid #1 pick for a future player. We will see if the bell has tolled for Jimmer. He may hook on with a club that uses him right and we will see his worth. The Kings from the start were the wrong team to get him.

 

[Superbone]

Just out of curiosity, Rats, I've never seen you post on the Suns forum before. Did you go to BYU? Are you just a Jimmer fan and not a Suns/NBA fan?

 

[Rats]

Just out of curiosity, Rats, I've never seen you post on the Suns forum before. Did you go to BYU? Are you just a Jimmer fan and not a Suns/NBA fan?

Yeah....no to Byu...never been to Utah. Not even that huge a fan of Jimmer...I have posted a couple times on the Suns board and had season tickets for 5 seasons. Gave them up last year and looking for a reason to go to half the games this year. Seems like a few are possessive of this corner of cyberspace just as it is in the Cards forum. Been a fan of Suns since the 70's. Cards longer. There the reason I relocated to Valley 12 years ago. I do have many Friends that love Jimmer here in Mesa and want him here. There Suns fans as well

 

[Errntknght]

Rats (post 58),

The question stands. I can not imagine them drawing many fans this season with this team at present. Debate that.

I did respond to the question (in post 51) regarding what/who would the fans come to see - you ignored it and kept on going about Jimmer, which is an indication you really are not interested in the debate you call for.

 

[Superbone]

Been a fan of Suns since the 70's. Cards longer. There the reason I relocated to Valley 12 years ago. I do have many Friends that love Jimmer here in Mesa and want him here. There Suns fans as well

That's interesting. So, are you from St. Louis? How did you become a Suns fan in the 70s? I too became a Suns fan in the early 70s but I grew up in Phoenix.

 

[Errntknght]

Maybe this will get you thinking about something besides Fredette. Everyone in Phoenix got excited about D'Antoni and his 'seven seconds or less' - well most everyone. A few of us thought it was gimmick that would fail in the postseason because it was not based on rebounding and defense. People were saying that it was going to revolutionize the game, forgetting that we'd seen it before under the names of 'run and gun' and 'small ball', among others. Fastbreak basketball does have a worthy history in the hands of the Celtics during the Auerbach/Russell era and the showtime Lakers but those teams defended well and rebounded. D'Antoni's version did die in the playoffs and 'uptempo' got negative connontations - it is somewhat deserved because uptempo per se correlates negatively with winning, even during the regular season.

You do not seem aware that Hornacek (the new head coach) and McDonough (new general manager) are going to institute old fashioned fastbreak basketball - based on defense and rebounding. Jimmer does not fit well into that scheme - he's a lousy defender and he doesn't lead fastbreaks. So suggesting that we feature Fredette is exactly counter to the direction the team is going. After this information sinks in, try finding someone who fits with the plan to recommend.

One other thing about the upcoming season - one of the goals is to have a bad enough record to have a high draft pick. The way the team is going to manage to do that is to score poorly in the halfcourt game - so if Fredette went wild scoring over a point a minute he'd make that task more difficult. (I don't really think he'd score nearly enough to make up for his failings but sometimes you get surprised.)

 

[Rats]

That's interesting. So, are you from St. Louis? How did you become a Suns fan in the 70s? I too became a Suns fan in the early 70s but I grew up in Phoenix.

I am both from St. Loius area until I was 10 and then South Texas. Back then you didn't get many games on Tv except playoffs. Paul Westphal became my favorite player after the '76 series against Boston and the Suns my favorite team in the West. Hated the Celtics\ Lakers who dominated in the 80's. Took lots of abuse from Spurs fans in the 80s being a Suns fan.

 

[t0rchy]

I would pay to see Goodwin, Len and Bledsoe develop. The experiment of Eric and Goran playing together. A group of young, hungry Players to start their careers and restart the hopes for this franchise.

But I'd have no intention wasting my money to see Brown or Gortat playing for a better contract, producing useless wins or just getting older. Hey, even though it may be scary: I would rather give Michael Beasley (aka the untradeable) another chance than those two guys.

 

[Rats]

Maybe this will get you thinking about something besides Fredette. Everyone in Phoenix got excited about D'Antoni and his 'seven seconds or less' - well most everyone. A few of us thought it was gimmick that would fail in the postseason because it was not based on rebounding and defense. People were saying that it was going to revolutionize the game, forgetting that we'd seen it before under the names of 'run and gun' and 'small ball', among others. Fastbreak basketball does have a worthy history in the hands of the Celtics during the Auerbach/Russell era and the showtime Lakers but those teams defended well and rebounded. D'Antoni's version did die in the playoffs and 'uptempo' got negative connontations - it is somewhat deserved because uptempo per se correlates negatively with winning, even during the regular season.

You do not seem aware that Hornacek (the new head coach) and McDonough (new general manager) are going to institute old fashioned fastbreak basketball - based on defense and rebounding. Jimmer does not fit well into that scheme - he's a lousy defender and he doesn't lead fastbreaks. So suggesting that we feature Fredette is exactly counter to the direction the team is going. After this information sinks in, try finding someone who fits with the plan to recommend.

One other thing about the upcoming season - one of the goals is to have a bad enough record to have a high draft pick. The way the team is going to manage to do that is to score poorly in the halfcourt game - so if Fredette went wild scoring over a point a minute he'd make that task more difficult. (I don't really think he'd score nearly enough to make up for his failings but sometimes you get surprised.)

It is my belief that they will have a bad enough record for a top pick this season. They will need a Center who can both defend well, block shots, and run the floor. Gortat is not that guy and it is yet to be seen if one is on the roster. One reason the Suns system failed un der D'antoni was injuries to Amare and no depth in the front court. They did win alot of games when he was healthy. Your right a Jimmer type would make no difference in wins and losses. I felt he would help at the gate. I considered he wasnt a good fit for the new/old scheme but in a limited role it wouldnt matter in a lost season Imo.