Hopkins Wants Out?

DVontel

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I feel like we do. What do we know about Kyler? He gets dinged up. He isn't the hardest worker in terms of extra stuff. People need to "earn" his trust. He has a style of football that he wants to play. He is not a good communicator. He isn't a leader. He isn't self aware. What is required for him to change is a complete 180 personality change or the Cardinals bringing in a offensive mind that he "respects" and gets him to change his game.

If he struggled to listen to Kliff, do you think some random defensive coach is going to get his ear? If he thought Kliff limited him do you think a risk averse defensive coach is going to give him more freedom? And I am not familiar with any offensive coaches who are excellent communicators and leaders that are available.
Kyler can & does have all those problems & yet we still don’t know if other HCs wouldn’t work with him. I’m certainly not using Kliff Kingsbury as the barometer for it.


Depends on the defensive guy. Maybe old school conservative coaches like Ron Rivera or Steve Wilks. Not the defensive coaches who has a modernize view of the league like a Sean McDermmot or Robert Saleh, guys that go after OCs that aren’t stuck in 1996.
 

DVontel

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Maybe but at least Carr isn't a net negative from a leadership and buy in standpoint.
I don’t give 1 single damn about this. Especially when his play is the exact opposite.

I care about his play on the field & how he has been stagnant for 10 years with an already limited ceiling.
 

MaoTosiFanClub

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dude....Kyler sucks. Let it go already. He has doomed the franchise as much as the coach and GM
Kyler won OROY and went to two Pro Bowls in his first 3 seasons. Keim has been an unprofessional lout making terrible draft selections and boozing for the last decade. Any comparison between the two is a joke.
 

DVontel

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Why do we think that changes if we get a new Kliff who doesn't run the offense that Kyler has run his entire life or a defensive coach who wants to run the ball and not commit turnovers
I don’t understand why you have this view of thinking all defensive coaches are like Rex Ryan or Ron Rivera just wanting to play football like we’re still in the 1970s.
 
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Kellen Olson was on with Luke this morning...They played a cut of Hop after the Pats game. It was tough to understand myself, but according to Olson, it was Hop saying something to another Cards players, to the effect of "I'm gonna try to enjoy these last 2 games as a Cardinal, 'cuz you never know what will happen..." and then it trails off with him laughing after the comment.

Might mean squat... who knows.
 

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I don’t understand why you have this view of thinking all defensive coaches are like Rex Ryan or Ron Rivera just wanting to play football like we’re still in the 1970s.
The majority of defensive coaches are risk averse. It is why "don't give up the big play" is a shared generational mantra of them. Sean McDermott, who I like, has even had to adjust and he has one of the top 5 best QBs in the game. Saleh is pretty risk averse. Vrabel...kind of the same. It's not an "old school" thing as much as it is a shared mindset.
 

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I don’t give 1 single damn about this. Especially when his play is the exact opposite.

I care about his play on the field & how he has been stagnant for 10 years with an already limited ceiling.
Carr has better win loss record, yards from scrimmage, and TDs than Kyler over the past two seasons. Better playoff production as well. And the Raiders are as dysfunctional as the Cardinals. The leadership and buy in are sprinkles on top of the same vanilla ice cream.
 

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Love Dhop but 2021 was probably his last year of peak production. This year he still tilted the field in favor of the Cardinals, but what will have left next year? Less.

We're not winning poop next year either, so it's time for us to find a new #1. It hurts to say so, but we should probably try to trade Hopkins.

WRs are one thing this franchise has been good at so hopefully we can have one in place by 2024, the next year we can realistically hope to compete for a championship.
Well, we used to be really good at spotting WR talent, but we really have not drafted a great WR since Fitzgerald. The only thing the Cards seem good at of late is finding talent at the safety position
 

DVontel

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Sean McDermott, who I like, has even had to adjust
Adjust to what? The Bills barely run the ball with anyone that isn’t Josh Allen.

Saleh is pretty risk averse.
You don’t think it’s because he has one of the biggest QB busts of all time & is a walking liability anytime he steps on the field?
Vrabel...kind of the same.
Limited QB with one of the greatest RBs of our generation. I can see why Vrabel is like that.


It’s a shared mindset from old school mindsets.
 

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I’m not a contract or salary cap guru like some of you guys, but could you trade Kyler and Hopkins for Carr and Adams?
 

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Adjust to what? The Bills barely run the ball with anyone that isn’t Josh Allen.


You don’t think it’s because he has one of the biggest QB busts of all time & is a walking liability anytime he steps on the field?

Limited QB with one of the greatest RBs of our generation. I can see why Vrabel is like that.


It’s a shared mindset from old school mindsets.
Allen was 21st is pass attempts in 2019. It wasn't until he refined his passing and blew up in 2020 that Sean gave him free reign. And, while some of it has to do with Allen being the QB but Buffalo is consistently in the bottom of the league in 4th down attempts.

I get what you are saying but I feel like Kyler has more in common with Ryan Tannehill than he does with Josh Allen and a new coach would treat him as such.
 

DVontel

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Carr has better win loss record, yards from scrimmage, and TDs than Kyler over the past two seasons. Better playoff production as well. And the Raiders are as dysfunctional as the Cardinals. The leadership and buy in are sprinkles on top of the same vanilla ice cream.
None of this disputes anything that I said. Derek Carr is going into season 10 of his career & has remain stagnant, arguably getting worse.

You can say the same about Kyler, but at least the window is still much bigger than Carr’s. We also haven’t got to see Kyler under a different coaching staff than Carr.

I don’t give a damn about the “leadership & buy in” after 24 point losses because I already know responses here are going to go:

“I feel so bad for Carr”

“Carr deserves better”

“He plays with a lot of heart”

After some large loss that he contributed to it. Talking that sweet talk to a certain audience might make people feel bad for him, not for me though.
 

Chopper0080

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None of this disputes anything that I said. Derek Carr is going into season 10 of his career & has remain stagnant, arguably getting worse.

You can say the same about Kyler, but at least the window is still much bigger than Carr’s. We also haven’t got to see Kyler under a different coaching staff than Carr.

I don’t give a damn about the “leadership & buy in” after 24 point losses because I already know responses here are going to go:

“I feel so bad for Carr”

“Carr deserves better”

“He plays with a lot of heart”

After some large loss that he contributed to it. Talking that sweet talk to a certain audience might make people feel bad for him, not for me though.
We have a different view on this. I think it is a rare coach who can get Kyler to change how he approaches as a pro and I really don't think it is a first time HC. And with a first time HC, the QB backing him and buying in is more important than you are saying it is. Agree that for a guy like Sean Payton, it doesn't matter much at all.

Also, I think the windows on their careers is about the same unless something really significant changes with Kyler. He is not going to stick with football as a bottom half of the league QB on a bad team which is what he will be if he doesn't make changes.
 

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I’m not a contract or salary cap guru like some of you guys, but could you trade Kyler and Hopkins for Carr and Adams?
No. Why would you trade for Carr when he could be had as a free agent for free?
 

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The structure of Hops contract implied a decision point this offseason.

when Hollywood was acquired, there was some speculation that he was the heir apparent with that decision point on Hops contract coming

with Kylers injury -- the 2023 season has to be treated like a reset year --- clean up your cap situation, get your new FO and HC up to speed and spend the first half of 2023 setting the stage for Kylers return in the back half of the year --

add another good draft when you are drafting in the high teens -- and prep for a 2 or 3 year run beginning in 2024

that means: trade DHop for the best draft package possible
 

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I think the players would have had a heads up if Payton is coming here. Now it looks like he won’t
 

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Kyler won OROY and went to two Pro Bowls in his first 3 seasons. Keim has been an unprofessional lout making terrible draft selections and boozing for the last decade. Any comparison between the two is a joke.
I dont think i have ever witnessed a poorer performance from a qb than Kyler Murray last year vs the Rams in the playoffs.

passer rating of 40.9 with 137 yards and 2 interceptions

Kyler is a junk time bum slayer.

If there is one tiny shred of a chance a team would trade for him you do it.

Also-- side note-- yes i agree he was effective until teams blitzed him and exposed his atrocious decision making
 

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Yeah. Uhh. Not the spitting image of the selfless, team player without his own faults. But, do what ya gotta do... I don't know if any good franchise is going to provide his ego with the touches it needs.
 

dscher

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I dont think i have ever witnessed a poorer performance from a qb than Kyler Murray last year vs the Rams in the playoffs.

passer rating of 40.9 with 137 yards and 2 interceptions

Kyler is a junk time bum slayer.

If there is one tiny shred of a chance a team would trade for him you do it.

Also-- side note-- yes i agree he was effective until teams blitzed him and exposed his atrocious decision making
You mean against the team that won the Superbowl and most knew we had no shot beforehand based on the way we closed the regular season...? That performance? Yes, he sucked. But that whole team was outmatched..you saw it clearly on just about every single snap. Maybe you should let that one go johnny.
 
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