Hornacek looking great so far

[SirStefan32]

The showtime Lakers were from 1979-91, co-terminus with Magic's time I believe. Jabbar and Worthy were there for much of it as well but not all. Rambis and Michael Cooper were also on the teams. 'Showtime' referred to the Magic led fastbreak. Most people think of the team as not being very good defensively but they were and rebounded well, too. Yes, they had some very good players but then most championship teams do.

The fastbreaking Celtics teams were not the Bird, Parish, McKale teams of roughly the showtime era. I said the Auerbach teams (Auerbach coaching) meaning the teams featuring Bill Russell, Tom Heinsohn, KC Jones, Sam Jones and at the end John Havlicek. Also very good players. You said fastbreaking can't win titles and I said they'd won their share - I didn't claim the ten average players fastbreaking could win a title or anything silly. You made a broad claim and I gave you two counter examples to it.

As far as Bledsoe and Dragic go - this is their first year together and both of their offensive stats improved significantly this year. You'd hardly expect that if they were struggling to play together. I didn't claim there was great synergy between them - in fact I said there wasn't yet but I had hopes of seeing it.

Sci Fi had the best counter argument but he didn't make it clear that he was using teamwide stats for TS% and PPP. That means the the great variation that we have seen in Frye's and Markieff's shooting and scoring could well be dominating his figures. Our opponents have been quite variable as well. Its the same effect you can see with +/- stats over short spans - large numbers of games are needed before the effects of the other players 'cancel out'. (Or sophisticated regression techniques involving a vast quantity of detailed data.) If he threw out all the games where only one of Eric or Goran played much of the noise would be removed in this particular case. I'd be interested to see what that showed if its possible to select just that set of games.

And I am calling BS on your examples. I am well aware of some "running" teams winning championships, but a team featuring Magic, Kareem, and Worthy is an exception. Of course a team featuring three hall of famers and a couple of all stars is going to win because they can run, play half-court, rebound, defend. That's a complete team that happens to run.

Dragic and Bledsoe having career years does not mean that they play well together. It means that Bledsoe is getting 13 more minutes per game and taking more than twice the number of shots this year. That's called getting more minutes and having more freedom (usually being the first or second option). Dragic has been improving steadily for years. This season is not really anything out of the ordinary for him. He is better than the year before- that's how it's supposed to work.

 

[JCSunsfan]

And I am calling BS on your examples. I am well aware of some "running" teams winning championships, but a team featuring Magic, Kareem, and Worthy is an exception. Of course a team featuring three hall of famers and a couple of all stars is going to win because they can run, play half-court, rebound, defend. That's a complete team that happens to run.

Dragic and Bledsoe having career years does not mean that they play well together. It means that Bledsoe is getting 13 more minutes per game and taking more than twice the number of shots this year. That's called getting more minutes and having more freedom (usually being the first or second option). Dragic has been improving steadily for years. This season is not really anything out of the ordinary for him. He is better than the year before- that's how it's supposed to work.

I am calling BS on your BS. Championship teams always have good players. The exceptions are really, really rare. And every running team has to do something other than run. They either have to play excellent D like the Celtics did, or have a decent half court game like the Lakers. You cannot just make up some disqualifying factor and throw out someone's example. Anyone can throw out almost anything with arbitrary exceptions, if they argue like you do.

 

[Covert Rain]

I am calling BS on your BS.

Well I am calling BS on your BS of his BS which was BS......oh never mind.

 

[BC867]

Well I am calling BS on your BS of his BS which was BS......oh never mind.

Wouldn't it have to be called SS? The first 'S' for Suns. We're not the Bulls.

 

[SirStefan32]

I am calling BS on your BS. Championship teams always have good players. The exceptions are really, really rare. And every running team has to do something other than run. They either have to play excellent D like the Celtics did, or have a decent half court game like the Lakers. You cannot just make up some disqualifying factor and throw out someone's example. Anyone can throw out almost anything with arbitrary exceptions, if they argue like you do.

Exactly my point! Showtime Lakers are that rare exception. Don Nelson/ Mike D'Antoni running teams don't win championships. Lakers did because they were just a great team that happened to run. It is extremely rare to have three HOF players, including arguably the best PG and C in the history of the game. That entire team was a very rare exception. That team was so good that I cannot even come with a hypothetical team consisting of current players in the NBA that would be an equivalent. The closest I can come up with would be adding Tim Duncan to Kobe/ Shaq Lakers teams.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Even though I'm having a hard time getting excited about us overachieving and playing .500 ball and likely just missing the playoffs, leaving us in no man's land to get one of the true blue choppers in the draft, I am REALLY excited about Horny as our coach. Seems like he's got the goods and that's great to know moving forward.

 

[Covert Rain]

Even though I'm having a hard time getting excited about us overachieving and playing .500 ball and likely just missing the playoffs, leaving us in no man's land to get one of the true blue choppers in the draft, I am REALLY excited about Horny as our coach. Seems like he's got the goods and that's great to know moving forward.

Agree with this. In fact, it's looking more and more likely we are not going to get the opportunity to pick a blue chipper unless we package several of our picks. That is disappointing but Horny seems to be the real deal.

 

[sunsfan88]

This NBA.com's third positive article on the Suns and mainly Hornacek in this short season. I don't think we had this many positive articles written about us in the past 3 years combined.

Mod edit - please do not post full articles from another site here. That is their property. Quote a few lines, but not the whole thing - jw7

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/...st-the-right-amount-of-fire/?ls=iref:nbahpt6e

 

[Superbone]

This NBA.com's third positive article on the Suns and mainly Hornacek in this short season. I don't think we had this many positive articles written about us in the past 3 years combined.

Enjoy

I was just thinking again tonight what an amazing turnaround it's been since last season. So much more fun and entertaining to watch. I'm really impressed with Coach Hornacek.

 

[Mainstreet]

Well I am calling BS on your BS of his BS which was BS......oh never mind.

Too bad I missed this conversation when it was current. I could have piled on a boatload.

 

[Mainstreet]

This may sound a bit strange but I'd take a good coach and especially a good GM/FO over a top pick. Why, because a good FO can usually figure out how to get the top players eventually. Of course it would be nice to have both.

 

[JCSunsfan]

This may sound a bit strange but I'd take a good coach and especially a good GM/FO over a top pick. Why, because a good FO can usually figure out how to get the top players eventually. Of course it would be nice to have both.

A good coach can actually improve the personnel. I do not think it is any coincidence that the improvement of P.J. Tucker this year is due in large part to Horny's instruction and motivation. Now, don't get me wrong, PJ is a motivated guy, all he needed was someone to show him how to do it.

The trade value of Tucker and other players like Plumlee and even Green has increased significantly since the summer. That allows the team to put together packages of players and picks to round the roster out perfectly.

Honestly, this is how the Spurs have stayed relevent for so long. They have had one legit superstar in Duncan. The other players like Ginobili, Parker, and Bowen back in the day were good players that were developed well and used perfectly. Yes, even Parker.

 

[Sci Fi]

A good coach can actually improve the personnel. I do not think it is any coincidence that the improvement of P.J. Tucker this year is due in large part to Horny's instruction and motivation. Now, don't get me wrong, PJ is a motivated guy, all he needed was someone to show him how to do it.

The trade value of Tucker and other players like Plumlee and even Green has increased significantly since the summer. That allows the team to put together packages of players and picks to round the roster out perfectly.

Honestly, this is how the Spurs have stayed relevent for so long. They have had one legit superstar in Duncan. The other players like Ginobili, Parker, and Bowen back in the day were good players that were developed well and used perfectly. Yes, even Parker.

Sorry, it's quite a bit more complicated than that.

 

[Mainstreet]

A good coach can actually improve the personnel. I do not think it is any coincidence that the improvement of P.J. Tucker this year is due in large part to Horny's instruction and motivation. Now, don't get me wrong, PJ is a motivated guy, all he needed was someone to show him how to do it.

The trade value of Tucker and other players like Plumlee and even Green has increased significantly since the summer. That allows the team to put together packages of players and picks to round the roster out perfectly.

Honestly, this is how the Spurs have stayed relevent for so long. They have had one legit superstar in Duncan. The other players like Ginobili, Parker, and Bowen back in the day were good players that were developed well and used perfectly. Yes, even Parker.

I think the Suns can build the framework for a good team as you point out (at least a playoff team), but at some point in time, the Suns will need to sign, draft, trade or develop at least a couple star players to add to the mix. IMO, Bledsoe and Goodwin have this potential already.

 

[sunsfan88]

A good coach can actually improve the personnel. I do not think it is any coincidence that the improvement of P.J. Tucker this year is due in large part to Horny's instruction and motivation. Now, don't get me wrong, PJ is a motivated guy, all he needed was someone to show him how to do it.

The trade value of Tucker and other players like Plumlee and even Green has increased significantly since the summer. That allows the team to put together packages of players and picks to round the roster out perfectly.

Honestly, this is how the Spurs have stayed relevent for so long. They have had one legit superstar in Duncan. The other players like Ginobili, Parker, and Bowen back in the day were good players that were developed well and used perfectly. Yes, even Parker.

Very true. I think I can get drafted by the Spurs and look like an NBA caliber bench warmer.

Seriously though, guys like Gary Neal, George Hill, Tiago Splitter, Danny Green, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili all have Popvich to thank for being the players they are today. Not a single one of those guys was expected to be any good when they got drafted but have turned into superstars and solid role players under Popovich's guidance.

 

[Errntknght]

Pops, or someone in SA, has a great eye for abililty. I'm constantly being surprised at the guys they bring and make a successful player of. Most recently it was Belinelli... I was sure they'd missed the boat on this call... a SG who could do nothing but shoot and he wasn't particularly good at that. So here he is shooting almost a hundred points above his career FG%, and 150 above on 3 pointers. Rebounds and assists up 50%. He'll probably cool off but what a turn around.

Tiago Splitter was another one I had doubts about - there was someone in here who insisted that Tiago would never even make it in the league all through his first year. He's a far cry from Tim Duncan but he's consistently well above average in offensive efficiency and we could sure use someone who rebounds as well as he.

 

[ProdigalSun]

Pops, or someone in SA, has a great eye for abililty. I'm constantly being surprised at the guys they bring and make a successful player of. Most recently it was Belinelli... I was sure they'd missed the boat on this call... a SG who could do nothing but shoot and he wasn't particularly good at that. So here he is shooting almost a hundred points above his career FG%, and 150 above on 3 pointers. Rebounds and assists up 50%. He'll probably cool off but what a turn around.

Tiago Splitter was another one I had doubts about - there was someone in here who insisted that Tiago would never even make it in the league all through his first year. He's a far cry from Tim Duncan but he's consistently well above average in offensive efficiency and we could sure use someone who rebounds as well as he.

McDonough and Hornacek are off to a good start following that model this year with Plumlee, Green, and Kieff

 

[Superbone]

Another example of the Hornacek effect:

He credits Hornacek for a boost to his overall offense.

“My confidence wasn’t there,” Tucker said of last season. “I still worked. But the confidence level (this season) is from Coach pushing me to get better and pushing up my confidence and always believing in me. So now he’s letting me be free and play and do the things that I like to do.”

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/sun...-excelling-dual-pg-system.html?nclick_check=1

 

[JCSunsfan]

Pops, or someone in SA, has a great eye for abililty. I'm constantly being surprised at the guys they bring and make a successful player of. Most recently it was Belinelli... I was sure they'd missed the boat on this call... a SG who could do nothing but shoot and he wasn't particularly good at that. So here he is shooting almost a hundred points above his career FG%, and 150 above on 3 pointers. Rebounds and assists up 50%. He'll probably cool off but what a turn around.

Tiago Splitter was another one I had doubts about - there was someone in here who insisted that Tiago would never even make it in the league all through his first year. He's a far cry from Tim Duncan but he's consistently well above average in offensive efficiency and we could sure use someone who rebounds as well as he.

They seem to know how to pick players that are coachable and will work within their system. Then they know how to use those players to get the max out of them. I doubt you would ever see a Carmelo Anthony in San Antonio, for instance.

 

[Superbone]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/utah-j...tting-jeff-hornacek-leave-173800569--nba.html

Utah Jazz Should Be Kicking Themselves for Letting Jeff Hornacek Leave
By Jared Bray

COMMENTARY | While Tyrone Corbin and the Utah Jazz (7-21) are playing a sad tune in the Western Conference cellar, Jeff Hornacek and the Phoenix Suns (14-10) are rising to the upper echelon of the standings.

Unfortunately, for Utah, it could've been the other way around.

At the end of the 2012-13 season, after the Jazz missed the playoffs with an ugly 16-point loss to the Memphis Grizzlies, team officials decided to keep Corbin (who had collected an 87-89 record in 2 1/2 seasons) and let his assistant, Hornacek, leave for Planet Orange.

Since that time, Hornacek has completely rejuvenated the Suns.

Read more...

 

[ProdigalSun]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/utah-j...tting-jeff-hornacek-leave-173800569--nba.html

Thanks for posting. I loved Hornacek as a player and am glad he's now back and having early success as a coach

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Even though I'm having a hard time getting excited about us overachieving and playing .500 ball and likely just missing the playoffs, leaving us in no man's land to get one of the true blue choppers in the draft, I am REALLY excited about Horny as our coach. Seems like he's got the goods and that's great to know moving forward.

Exactly how I feel.

 

[Superbone]

Anybody know how long his contract runs?

 

[Errntknght]

Its hard to find anything to nitpick with Hornacek - and believe me, I work at it. I liked the rotation better when he used Ish Smith - and now we are seeing Bledsoe running on empty late in games. Developing Ish is certainly not a priority but overworking Bled and Dragic seems pointless - and could cost us wins.

Personally, I'd like see Goodwin's minutes ramping up but he's progressing well with the way Hornacek is playing him so I won't complain about it

But I would like to see Kravtsov be on the floor long enough to get into the flow of the game once in a while. Our defense is flagging lately and he could at least inject some energy and dole out some hard fouls.

 

[Catlover]

Its hard to find anything to nitpick with Hornacek - and believe me, I work at it. I liked the rotation better when he used Ish Smith - and now we are seeing Bledsoe running on empty late in games. Developing Ish is certainly not a priority but overworking Bled and Dragic seems pointless - and could cost us wins.

Personally, I'd like see Goodwin's minutes ramping up but he's progressing well with the way Hornacek is playing him so I won't complain about it

But I would like to see Kravtsov be on the floor long enough to get into the flow of the game once in a while. Our defense is flagging lately and he could at least inject some energy and dole out some hard fouls.

Dragic is leading the team in minutes at 35.2 per game. The best way for Bledsoe to get used to playing 36 minutes per game is to play 36 minutes per game. We don't need to see anything more from Ish Smith. He doesn't belong in the NBA and this team suffered while he was on the court. He's a poor defender and he can't shoot. Put him and Kravtsov on the court if your goal is to lose every game. Keep them on the bench if you want the rest of your players to continue to believe that they are in this to win games.

We could use a 10 minute per game backup that could sub for longer stretches but that man is not on the roster. It would also help if our small forward had more ball handling skills. Green is a turnover waiting to happen when he moves with the ball and Tucker is even worse. We need someone like a Grant Hill who can occasionally direct the offense when one of our point guards is resting.