Hornets @ Suns 1-6-19

[1tinsoldier]

With a healthier Booker and a more reasonable schedule they would almost certainly be on a pace very similar to last season (maybe even better).

on pace to be similar to last year's last place team is a conveniently low bar to set.
we all had higher expectations and assumed our top lottery pick days were over

i still expect this team to be better than last year and i believe they have enough talent to be

Also the team has somehow gotten even younger than last year and have something like 9 players on the roster that weren't here last year.

replacing those 9 players was widely regarded as a plus this season
and those younger players added are an improvement over what we had

 

[Suns_fan69]

Brett Brown did not crack 20 wins in any of his first 3 seasons. I think he's doing fine as a coach. Igor may never be a good coach, but to declare that now is just premature at best.

 

[1Sun]

Brett Brown did not crack 20 wins in any of his first 3 seasons. I think he's doing fine as a coach. Igor may never be a good coach, but to declare that now is just premature at best.

Big difference. The Sixers were trying to lose. Their progressively worse records the first three seasons under Brett Brown were not only expected, but demanded.

The Suns were not supposed to be worse this season.

 

[1tinsoldier]

hey, Bone, so that we can better entertain you during your drive-byes from that other forum,
tell us, does the daily repetition of the "new coach and young players" excuse bore you too
or is it just the repetitive replies to those excuses?

 

[Chaplin]

hey, Bone, so that we can better entertain you during your drive-byes from that other forum,
tell us, does the daily repetition of the "young coach and players" excuse bore you too
or is it just the repetitive replies to those excuses?

Why don't you just stop? Your petty attacks on people in this forum aren't helping your cause.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Last season we intentionally tanked, fired the coach and traded our second best player three games into the season, Booker missed 28 games and we finished with 21 wins.

We added the 1st and 10th pick in the draft and we are on pace to win 18 games this season.

The coach must shoulder some of the blame.

He really might be at fault, I have no idea. But as noted elsewhere, there were 17 players on our roster at some point last season that are not with us right now. 17. That number should boggle the mind especially for a team that didn't have a giant roster clearing trade in the middle of the season. It was just turnover. And there are 10 players on our roster right now that weren't here last season. To say it has to be on the coach, or even partially on the coach, is beyond me. If coaching could fix this mess, teams would never need to tank, they'd just outbid each other for the best coaches.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't understand this statement.

Jackson and Booker are about the only two who were here last year.

You aren't seriously arguing they are playing worse now than they did at the beginning of the season are you?

Man warren is the invisible man!

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

on pace to be similar to last year's last place team is a conveniently low bar to set.
we all had higher expectations and assumed our top lottery pick days were over

i still expect this team to be better than last year and i believe they have enough talent to be



replacing those 9 players was widely regarded as a plus this season
and those younger players added are an improvement over what we had

Except I'm not the one setting the bar. Others have brought up the fact that we are on pace to be worse than we were last year. I am simply stating that if not for the circumstances surrounding the Suns start to this season that would likely not be the case.

 

[1tinsoldier]

Why don't you just stop? Your petty attacks on people in this forum aren't helping your cause.

tell me. do you object to the initial petty attacks, jokes and sarcasm that follows a serious post
or only the responses to them from people whose opinions you disagree with?

because you didn't say anything when Bone snipped that my post was "repetitive and boring"

my "cause" is getting people to reply to my posts with some measure of reasoning, like Cards just did in the prior post, or just ignore me and do us all a favor

 

[1tinsoldier]

Except I'm not the one setting the bar. Others have brought up the fact that we are on pace to be worse than we were last year. I am simply stating that if not for the circumstances surrounding the Suns start to this season that would likely not be the case.

thank you, Cards, for your reasonable response
i value your contributions to this forum and different point of view

 

[Chaplin]

tell me. do you object to the initial petty attacks, jokes and sarcasm that follows a serious post
or only the responses to them from people whose opinions you disagree with?

because you didn't say anything when Bone snipped that my post was "repetitive and boring"

my "cause" is getting people to reply to my posts with some measure of reasoning, like Cards just did in the prior post, or just ignore me and do us all a favor

There have been a lot more times that you have done it to multiple posters, that’s all.

 

[taz02]

He really might be at fault, I have no idea. But as noted elsewhere, there were 17 players on our roster at some point last season that are not with us right now. 17. That number should boggle the mind especially for a team that didn't have a giant roster clearing trade in the middle of the season. It was just turnover. And there are 10 players on our roster right now that weren't here last season. To say it has to be on the coach, or even partially on the coach, is beyond me. If coaching could fix this mess, teams would never need to tank, they'd just outbid each other for the best coaches.

Yea, you make some good points.

I don't think it "has" to be the coach and it certainly isn't all on the coach but I believe it is partially on the coach.

My concern is how Ayton is used in the offense and how bad the offense looks in general. I'm concerned that we have a guard oriented coach whose entire system breaks down without even an average PG.

I don't think a new coach will necessarily "fix this mess". I think everyone shares some of the blame when the team is 9-32. I don't think the coach should get a pass but I think the coach, whoever it is needs to implement a system centered on Ayton and that's not the current high PR.

I do think if Ayton had been been used differently from the start of pre-season and some of the obvious line up changes were made sooner we'd be in a better spot both by record and the development of Ayton. Of course there is no way to know for sure.

What are some of the positive things Igor has done since becoming the Suns coach that would support him being a good coach?

 

[AzStevenCal]

What are some of the positive things Igor has done since becoming the Suns coach that would support him being a good coach?

I'm at as much of a loss to point out what he's done well as I am to identify what he's done wrong. And I'm sure he's done some things wrong, even the best coaches with veteran teams make mistakes. I just can't get behind the idea that any of us can sit here and really know whether it's on him or not. Over time, you can judge him like you would any coach (by results) but with a complete lack of continuity and a roster of kids, it's going to take time to see what his plan actually is. And I may very well hate it when that time comes. I know I'm not thrilled with Ayton's part in our current offense, I just don't know if that's on the coach and his system or not.

 

[elindholm]

Why don't you just stop? Your petty attacks on people in this forum aren't helping your cause.

Yes, by all means, let's leave the petty attacks to newly elected Congresspeople who wrap themselves in the correct color banner.

 

[Proximo]

Have you guys listened to ayton’s interviews?

He does not come across as confident at all. The truth is that he just does not seem ready to take over having the offense run through him.

But you don’t even need to go by his interviews, just watch his passiveness in games. He goes through huge stretches where he just stops trying to post up.

Igor even said the other day ayton is partially to blame because he is not demanding the ball.

Does that really sound like a coach that does not want to get him more involved in the offense?

 

[BC867]

Have you guys listened to ayton’s interviews?

He does not come across as confident at all. The truth is that he just does not seem ready to take over having the offense run through him.

But you don’t even need to go by his interviews, just watch his passiveness in games. He goes through huge stretches where he just stops trying to post up.

Igor even said the other day ayton is partially to blame because he is not demanding the ball.

Does that really sound like a coach that does not want to get him more involved in the offense?

I was waiting for another sentence. A sportswriter or fan can end your post as you did.

But a Head Coach is there to mentor and lead. It is his job to get Ayton more involved in the offense. Is he doing his job?

And if the answer is that DeAndre is more suited at Power Forward as he was at UofA, has Igor informed management that he needs a role playing Center for offense/defense so he can move him?

Does the Coach have the leadership skills to be pro-active or not? Yes, that is a leading question, because he hasn't shown that skill yet.

 

[1tinsoldier]

yes, we all believe the coach WANTS Ayton to be more involved

 

[slinslin]

I think Igor is failing miserably

we are 3 months into the season and a full offseason

By now he should have implemented some bread and butter plays for Ayton or specifically Ayton and Booker.

Like what we had with Nash and Amare, if all else failed we had plays to fall back on.

Now if the offense fails we end up with taking jumpshots. And we put no pressure on the defense because of how little penetration we get to the rim. The only one who gets to the rim consistently is Jackson who is very bad at finishing those drives.

The only plays we consistently run are trying to use Ayton setting picks at the 3pt line...

What is the signature play for the Suns or Ayton? There is none.

I don't know about you guys but Igor just does not inspire me at all. He continued saying that you can not coach effort and such but I absolutely believe that the personality of a coach can rub off on the team. I'd like Igor to show more passion, emotion, fire. For a lack of better description - he simply seems to be there.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think Igor is failing miserably

we are 3 months into the season and a full offseason

By now he should have implemented some bread and butter plays for Ayton or specifically Ayton and Booker.

Like what we had with Nash and Amare, if all else failed we had plays to fall back on.

Now if the offense fails we end up with taking jumpshots. And we put no pressure on the defense because of how little penetration we get to the rim. The only one who gets to the rim consistently is Jackson who is very bad at finishing those drives.

The only plays we consistently run are trying to use Ayton setting picks at the 3pt line...

What is the signature play for the Suns or Ayton? There is none.

I don't know about you guys but Igor just does not inspire me at all. He continued saying that you can not coach effort and such but I absolutely believe that the personality of a coach can rub off on the team. I'd like Igor to show more passion, emotion, fire. For a lack of better description - he simply seems to be there.

The only reason I haven't been more critical of Igor is because the Suns have not provided him a point guard. It would be the fairer way to judge him if he had one. That said, I'm not liking the way the Suns use Ayton or their offensive scheme.

 

[taz02]

The only reason I haven't been more critical of Igor is because the Suns have not provided him a point guard. It would be the fairer way to judge him if he had one. That said, I'm not liking the way the Suns use Ayton or their offensive scheme.

I get what you are saying but if the system is only producing 9 wins in 41 games because it is missing an average PG its got to be a flawed system.

 

[Mainstreet]

I get what you are saying but if the system is only producing 9 wins in 41 games because it is missing an average PG its got to be a flawed system.

Admittedly I do not like what I have seen from Igor's offense not to mention the defense.

I guess I'm tired of everything being disposable with the Suns. It may end up with the Suns firing Igor, but what does it say about the Suns front office if they can't give him what he minimally needs... a point guard. Igor does not bear all the responsibility for the Suns poor play.

Kokoskov said before the season that he puts a lot of responsibility on the point guard, not only for the offense but the defense as well.

Another way to look at it, what if the Suns had not acquired Nash to run D'Antoni's system.

 

[slinslin]

I get what you are saying but if the system is only producing 9 wins in 41 games because it is missing an average PG its got to be a flawed system.

Especially after Igor stressed over and over that he has no fixed system and that the system is based on the players he has.

 

[taz02]

Admittedly I do not like what I have seen from Igor's offense not to mention the defense.

I guess I'm tired of everything being disposable with the Suns. It may end up with the Suns firing Igor, but what does it say about the Suns front office if they can't give him what he minimally needs... a point guard. Igor does not bear all the responsibility for the Suns poor play.

Kokoskov said before the season that he puts a lot of responsibility on the point guard, not only for the offense but the defense as well.

Another way to look at it, what if the Suns had not acquired Nash to run D'Antoni's system.

That makes sense, clearly if we had Steve Nash, this team would be vastly different. Who can we get that will have a Steve Nash type impact? I wonder how D'Antoni's system would look with an average PG.

IMO, base on what I've seen, we are going to need a PG that is significantly better than average.

On the other hand, I wonder how the current roster would look with a system centered around Ayton.

If we can land a top PG we will be fine, if not, a system/coach change will be in order. I think our max time line for either move is prior to training camp and that is likely too far out.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Especially after Igor stressed over and over that he has no fixed system and that the system is based on the players he has.

Booker missed all of the preseason and by the time he finally got into game shape he was impacted by one injury after another. I figure we got the real Booker for maybe 9 games at the most which included the stretch where we actually started looking like a real team. I'd say whatever system Koko planned on running it was predicated on having Booker out there at full speed.

 

[1Sun]

I think Igor is failing miserably

we are 3 months into the season and a full offseason

By now he should have implemented some bread and butter plays for Ayton or specifically Ayton and Booker.

Like what we had with Nash and Amare, if all else failed we had plays to fall back on.

Now if the offense fails we end up with taking jumpshots. And we put no pressure on the defense because of how little penetration we get to the rim. The only one who gets to the rim consistently is Jackson who is very bad at finishing those drives.

The only plays we consistently run are trying to use Ayton setting picks at the 3pt line...

What is the signature play for the Suns or Ayton? There is none.

I don't know about you guys but Igor just does not inspire me at all. He continued saying that you can not coach effort and such but I absolutely believe that the personality of a coach can rub off on the team. I'd like Igor to show more passion, emotion, fire. For a lack of better description - he simply seems to be there.

This × 1,000.