How complete is Joe’s game? Lebron-esque yet?

[lancelet's cousin]

It would take a great deal of coaching to get Joe to attack the basket on a regular basis. I just don't think he has that gene. He's had the same game style for the 6 years I've followed him.

 

[sunsfn]

It would take a great deal of coaching to get Joe to attack the basket on a regular basis. I just don't think he has that gene. He's had the same game style for the 6 years I've followed him.

Maybe you are thinking of another Joe.
Joe Johnson has only been in the league for 4 years.

 

[lancelet's cousin]

Maybe you are thinking of another Joe.
Joe Johnson has only been in the league for 4 years.

I've been a Razorback fan for longer than that.

 

[SASpursfan]

I dont understand why theres so much fascination with Joe Johnson among the Suns fans. I didnt remember him doing well aggainst the Spurs in the playoffs in 2003. Then a Sun fan mentioned to me that his game has improved so much since then. So I decided how well he fared against the best defensive team this past year. Game 1 he scored 9 points. Game 2 21 pts. Both losses. Game 3 without Duncan, Ginobili, and Mohammed, thats 3 of our starting 5 players he scorres 12 points. Thats the only 'win' the Suns had over the Spurs in the regular season. And they barely won.

Now he has one good game, and I really liked how he his jumpshot over Bowen when Bowen was playing tight defense on him, and people think he Lebronesque. If management pays him anything over 40 mllion for 6 years they are gonna tie there financial hands on a player who is ok.

Nash is why so many Suns stats have gone up since last year. Thats why hes my MVP. But I think all non-Nash players are overrated including Amare.
But thats another story I dont want to get started on. Maybe if theres a game 6, Ill bring up this thread.

 

[playstation]

For games in the regular season:

JJ's points per possesion (viewed as his overall scoring effectiveness) on the other hand is in the 87th percentile of the ENTIRE NBA.

He is in the 100th percentile for PPP in the entire NBA in all spot up opportunities.

He is in the 80th percentile for ISOs.



For his jumpshots -

He is in the 100th percentile when shooting a shot while guarded
He is in the 91st percentile when shooting a shot while open

i'd be interested to learn where you got the stats from. i'm a stat fiend

 

[lancelet's cousin]

I dont understand why theres so much fascination with Joe Johnson among the Suns fans. I didnt remember him doing well aggainst the Spurs in the playoffs in 2003. Then a Sun fan mentioned to me that his game has improved so much since then. So I decided how well he fared against the best defensive team this past year. Game 1 he scored 9 points. Game 2 21 pts. Both losses. Game 3 without Duncan, Ginobili, and Mohammed, thats 3 of our starting 5 players he scorres 12 points. Thats the only 'win' the Suns had over the Spurs in the regular season. And they barely won.

Now he has one good game, and I really liked how he his jumpshot over Bowen when Bowen was playing tight defense on him, and people think he Lebronesque. If management pays him anything over 40 mllion for 6 years they are gonna tie there financial hands on a player who is ok.

Nash is why so many Suns stats have gone up since last year. Thats why hes my MVP. But I think all non-Nash players are overrated including Amare.
But thats another story I dont want to get started on. Maybe if theres a game 6, Ill bring up this thread.

The Sun's haven't been on national TV too much. You haven't obviously haven't seen him play that much. And, BTW, we don't rate our players only by how well they do against your precious Spurs. There happen to be several teams in the NBA (more than 5 I think, maybe even more). Many even play defense. But since you wish to dig up stats that promote your views, why don't you prove what your are trying to get us to believe and check out his #'s when Nash was down. And then check out his numbers last years when he was given a chance to start and stay in with minutes (post Marbury trade). But those numbers would mean you aren't making any sense, so maybe you should stick to stat-mining.

 

[elindholm]

In their head-to-head games, the Spurs were better than the Suns this regular season. No one other than Stoudemire played particularly well. So to look at three games from Johnson and try to extrapolate from it is pretty stupid.

Anyway, the Spurs aren't in a position to make an offer for Johnson, so it's just as well that their fans aren't impressed by him.

 

[SASpursfan]

I know the Spurs roster is pretty much set for the next four years. And even if they did had have the monies available Im sure they wouldnt throw it toward JJ. Now I mentioned that I didnt think the Suns should throw that money at him because I dont think hes worth it. But im just a fan. However, if the Suns do they are gonnna tie themselves up financially to a player when they have other needs to spend the money on. The Suns dont have any decent big man. A more traditional center. A less expensive point guard who can give Nash a rest. Someone who is gonna get some rebounds and play some defense.
Then they will be more prepared to bringing home a championshiop. IMO

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Joe is a 6'8 player that can play point. That alone is worth a ton of money. Factor in he has gotten better every season, and has finally become consistant this season.

Did you look at my numbers earlier in the thread? He is in the 87th percentile of the entire NBA in scoring effectiveness.....


Joe scored 16-17 a game while being the 4th option on offense. He shot over 46% from the field on top of that.

When Amare was out, and after the Marbury trade last season - he was averaging well over 20 a game.

If he was the #1 option on offense he would be averaging around 22 a game while shooting 42-43%




Put it this way - I would take Joe over Manu any day of the week. Even if Manu quit flopping. Of course, age is a big factor - but still.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Now he has one good game, and I really liked how he his jumpshot over Bowen when Bowen was playing tight defense on him, and people think he Lebronesque. If management pays him anything over 40 mllion for 6 years they are gonna tie there financial hands on a player who is ok.

Nash is why so many Suns stats have gone up since last year. Thats why hes my MVP. But I think all non-Nash players are overrated including Amare.
But thats another story I dont want to get started on.

boy - you're credibility just went SHOOTING out the window. 6 years - 40 million - are you a moron? Did you not see that a guy who has been averaging 22 4 and 5 throughout the playoffs and then in his second game back from breaking his face put up 26 with ease basically should gte the same amount of monye as Derek Fisher and Adonal Foyle - you do realize how absolutely stupid that sounds, right? And Amare's overrated? Are you serious - the guy is averging 35 point per game against you guys - the highest Conference Final average ever, but yeah - he's an overrated boar just three years removed from his high school prom.

You've been pretty even keel since you got here but the above post wreaks of stupidity and blinders as far as the rest of the NBA is concerned.

 

[green machine]

Joe is that rare player who has pretty much all the tools to be very, very good. The only thing he's missing is supreme athleticism. His court sense and confidence seem to be growing, and that's why we see the player we do now.

 

[Cheesebeef]

maybe THAT'S why I said it's ridiculous to put this thread up after one game.

JJ looked a little sluggish out there tonight. Can't wait to see him fully recovered next season - he's gonna be the guy that ultimately forces Marion off this team - and we'll be better for it. Love the guy's heart and talent - most players wouldn't have come back from what he did in the playoffs. But Lebron-esque - that still has me chuckling.

7 - were you the same guy who also said DA has the same type of coahcing cache as Jackson and Pop? If so - maybe you need to realize you homerism kind of clouds your judgement. DA might be there someday, but he got undressed in this series.

 

[cly2tw]

maybe THAT'S why I said it's ridiculous to put this thread up after one game.

JJ looked a little sluggish out there tonight. Can't wait to see him fully recovered next season - he's gonna be the guy that ultimately forces Marion off this team - and we'll be better for it. Love the guy's heart and talent - most players wouldn't have come back from what he did in the playoffs. But Lebron-esque - that still has me chuckling.

7 - were you the same guy who also said DA has the same type of coahcing cache as Jackson and Pop? If so - maybe you need to realize you homerism kind of clouds your judgement. DA might be there someday, but he got undressed in this series.

Completely agree on all your points. JJ has a calm personality. He won't ever be like Manu and far away from, and never will catch, LBJ, for sure. But with a long term contract and without pressure as the co-second-option behind the best-ever-NBA-player-to-be in Amare, he will steadily improve to maybe almost Ray-Allen and Paul-Pierce level offesnive player in 2 years.

 

[SASpursfan]

Cheesebeef if i lost some crediblility because I posted he wouldnt be worth a 6yr 40 million dollar contract, its because its my personal opinion. Manu has a 6 yr 52 million dollar contract and Parker has a 6 yr 62million dollar contract. From what ive seen, and ive only seen JJ play about 15 games this year, I dont think hes worth that much money. Now does that mean someone wont tender him a contract worth that much money doesnt matter... However, some owners tend to throw money around... so he might get that offer.


As far as how I felt about Amare being overrated... welll someone how already started a thread about how great Amares games is.. but.. he needs so much to improve.. i havent read the thread.. but it does it carefully why state why I feel he is.. then ill be happy to let you know.

Dont get me wrong im not trying to troll... there are sometimes when I am so amazed at what he can do on the offensive end of the game... and for the past 5 quarters hes beeen awesome.. but..

 

[George O'Brien]

It is curious how little attention Manu got last summer. I think he met with the Nuggets and that was about it. This year we have heard more rumors about teams wanting to after JJ it gets tiring. I'm sure most Suns fans wished that every bloody sports writer in the country wasn't speculating on how their team was going to throw huge piles of money at JJ so the Suns couldn't afford to match.

Both Manu and JJ had breakout years - with JJ having the good luck of not having already signed an extension. But in any case, there is one statistic that leaps out when comparing the two. Manu was born Jul 28, 1977 while JJ was born Jun 29, 1981.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cheesebeef if i lost some crediblility because I posted he wouldnt be worth a 6yr 40 million dollar contract, its because its my personal opinion. Manu has a 6 yr 52 million dollar contract and Parker has a 6 yr 62million dollar contract. From what ive seen, and ive only seen JJ play about 15 games this year, I dont think hes worth that much money. Now does that mean someone wont tender him a contract worth that much money doesnt matter... However, some owners tend to throw money around... so he might get that offer.


As far as how I felt about Amare being overrated... welll someone how already started a thread about how great Amares games is.. but.. he needs so much to improve.. i havent read the thread.. but it does it carefully why state why I feel he is.. then ill be happy to let you know.

Dont get me wrong im not trying to troll... there are sometimes when I am so amazed at what he can do on the offensive end of the game... and for the past 5 quarters hes beeen awesome.. but..

for the past 5 quarters? How about the past 5 GAMES. The guy had the GREATEST debut of all tie in the Conference Finals. Sorry - but when you are the ONLY guy carrying your team and singlehandedly keeping them in it against the best team in the world, it's hard for me to believe that ANYONE can say he's overrated. The very fact that EVERYONE bags on his defense (as they should) also pretty much says he isn't overrated.

Personally - I can see why Spurs fans would somewhat say that - they see the future and it scares the hell out of them - it should - we're gonna be battling you guys for years to come and unlike Duncan and Ginobli - who are in their prime right now - we are younger and only going to get better.

As far as the JJ contract - everything in the NBA is relative - again - your'e saying that he deserves the same contract amount that Derek Fisher and Adonal Fyole make - that's really stupid. The guy ISN'T 28 like Manu is - he's not inconsistent like Parker still is and in reality - he plays the same roles those guys plays for the Spurs - the third man. The third man on great teams make 8-10 million per year and if they don't, they're agents are schmucks.

 

[Joe Mama]

As far as the JJ contract - everything in the NBA is relative - again - your'e saying that he deserves the same contract amount that Derek Fisher and Adonal Fyole make - that's really stupid. The guy ISN'T 28 like Manu is - he's not inconsistent like Parker still is and in reality - he plays the same roles those guys plays for the Spurs - the third man. The third man on great teams make 8-10 million per year and if they don't, they're agents are schmucks.

More importantly, Ginobilli would get a much bigger contract if he was a free agent this summer. You can't compare his contract with one that JJ might get unless you are considering the way Ginobilli was perceived LAST SUMMER. This summer someone would probably throw a maximum contract at Manu Ginobilli. In fact I'm sure someone would. That's why it's likely someone is going to give JJ contract starting at at least $8-9 million.

Joe Mama

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

guys, if the dude thinks amare is overrated and that jj is not worth a $60M contract he just flat doesn't know what he's talking about and you're wasting your typing skills on him. those can be the two most ridiculous statements i've heard this season. particularly in light of the playoffs performance for both (jj's pre-injury).

 

[SASpursfan]

Currently there is a thread about Amares game. I havent bothered to read it, but from my perspective outside a Suns fan, I think he is overrated because he only plays on the offensive end, when he gets the ball he doesnt look to get other teammates involved, if hes outta position doesnt bother to kick the ball out and regain a better postion, tends to want to dunk on everyone (which he thinks is the game is suppposed to be played), relies to much on his athletic ability to get rebounds and not the fundamentals of blocking out, etc..

Dont get me wrong i love to watch his offensive game and Wed night he was awesome because he was grabbing boards and playing better D..for the past 5 qts.. Yes i said 5 qtrs not 5 games.. as someone mentioned. When he can do alll the above mentioned then this guy will be unlike any other player ive seen in the NBA.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Currently there is a thread about Amares game. I havent bothered to read it, but from my perspective outside a Suns fan, I think he is overrated because he only plays on the offensive end, when he gets the ball he doesnt look to get other teammates involved, if hes outta position doesnt bother to kick the ball out and regain a better postion, tends to want to dunk on everyone (which he thinks is the game is suppposed to be played), relies to much on his athletic ability to get rebounds and not the fundamentals of blocking out, etc..

Dont get me wrong i love to watch his offensive game and Wed night he was awesome because he was grabbing boards and playing better D..for the past 5 qts.. Yes i said 5 qtrs not 5 games.. as someone mentioned. When he can do alll the above mentioned then this guy will be unlike any other player ive seen in the NBA.

The problem with your logic is you think in terms of 2 weeks looking forward, Amare came into the NBA a raw player and has with a surgical precision improved parts of his game. Maybe you think his game is overratted but go ask Tim Duncan or Popovich what they think of Amare's game. Overratted? I dont think so I think he was so underratted that the national media is just shocked that he is 10 times better than they thought he was, it's always shocking when that fat little teenage girl shows up 10 years after you have last seen her as a total hottie. Let me use another analogy like when your little sister gets all purdy and stuff.
Let me tell you next few years Amare will drastically improve a few more parts of his game then a few more and eventually (maybe at 25-26) will be better than Garnett, Dirk and Duncan. Don't think so? check back with me in 2008.

Personally if I was a Spurs fan I would take solice that the NBA is a haven for Euro flopers like Ginobli and Parker you guys will dominate for years.

 

[Cheesebeef]

When he can do alll the above mentioned then this guy will be unlike any other player ive seen in the NBA.

any NO ONE is saying any differently - thus - he can't be OVERRATED when people, even on THIS board, in the media and EVEN HIMSELF are saying that he needs to be much better on the boards and on the defensive end. Lord - man - you make it sound like he's in his prime at 27 instead of JUST LEARNING to play at 21.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

damn cheese i could have said it any better. Well you could have added you hick ass sob at the end of your sentence.