How good is Booker?

[CardsSunsDbacks]

But see, the argument is circular. In the highlight clips, Doncic doesn't look like anything special. If this pedestrian teenager is one of the best players in the league, that doesn't say much about the league. But you say, no, it's a great league, and that proves how good he is, and the fact that he's so good proves what a tough league it is, which it turn proves how good he is since he's one of the best in it, which proves that...

What I find crazy is that you think he looks “pedestrian”. Why does he look pedestrian to you? Is it simply because of athleticism or would you call him pedestrian for an 18 year old? This is a player that at 18 is already better than Bogdan Bogdanovic is at 25 and Bogdan is no slouch either as he has been putting up 15/4/4 per 36 on good shooting as a rookie (albeit a 25 year old rookie). Point is he will still get even better than he already is as well with the same development that all other players his age go through.

 

[Cheesebeef]

But see, the argument is circular. In the highlight clips, Doncic doesn't look like anything special. If this pedestrian teenager is one of the best players in the league, that doesn't say much about the league. But you say, no, it's a great league, and that proves how good he is, and the fact that he's so good proves what a tough league it is, which it turn proves how good he is since he's one of the best in it, which proves that...

[/QUOTE]

agreed.

 

[elindholm]

Why does he look pedestrian to you? Is it simply because of athleticism or would you call him pedestrian for an 18 year old?

Pedestrian for an elite basketball player.

This is a player that at 18 is already better than Bogdan Bogdanovic is at 25

This is not remotely relevant. Every player who's at the top of the upcoming draft is better at 18 or 19 than Bogdanovic is at 25. Why use Bogdanovic as a standard?

Point is he will still get even better than he already is as well with the same development that all other players his age go through.

Quickness, balance, and general assertiveness don't usually improve much after 18. The main areas of improvement are typically strength, footwork, and decision-making. Bigs are often as exception because the skill level is lower; if you're seven feet tall, you're already halfway to being a good basketball player. If you look at Warren or Booker, though, you'd be hard-pressed to find that they've improved in quickness, balance, or aggressiveness since first entering the league.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Pedestrian for an elite basketball player.



This is not remotely relevant. Every player who's at the top of the upcoming draft is better at 18 or 19 than Bogdanovic is at 25. Why use Bogdanovic as a standard?



Quickness, balance, and general assertiveness don't usually improve much after 18. The main areas of improvement are typically strength, footwork, and decision-making. Bigs are often as exception because the skill level is lower; if you're seven feet tall, you're already halfway to being a good basketball player. If you look at Warren or Booker, though, you'd be hard-pressed to find that they've improved in quickness, balance, or aggressiveness since first entering the league.

So it is simply due to athleticism then? As far as assertiveness is concerned I don’t get how he lacks that. He is the 2nd leading scorer in his league. I think that would suggest he has no issues with assertiveness. Also there is absolutely nothing pedestrian about his basketball skills.

 

[SirStefan32]

So it is simply due to athleticism then? As far as assertiveness is concerned I don’t get how he lacks that. He is the 2nd leading scorer in his league. I think that would suggest he has no issues with assertiveness. Also there is absolutely nothing pedestrian about his basketball skills.

It's because of his skin color and the country of origin. If Doncic were black and from the states, nobody would be making up flaws in his game. Some people just don't like white European players and claim that every white guy from Europe is Darko Milicic.

 

[elindholm]

It's because of his skin color and the country of origin. If Doncic were black and from the states, nobody would be making up flaws in his game. Some people just don't like white European players and claim that every white guy from Europe is Darko Milicic.

Doncic will be in the NBA soon enough, and then we'll see. Until then, the charges of racism get us nowhere. You say he's underrated because he's white; I say he's overrated for the same reason. It is well established that white players are more likely to get labeled "smart" than black ones. It's also true that "but he's smart" is a standard alibi for players that lack athleticism, regardless of their skin color. The combination of those factors means that there will be more white players who are mediocre athletes, but considered "smart," than there will be black athletes in the same category.

If he winds up with the Suns, I hope he does well; and if he winds up with another team, I hope the Suns don't regret failing to get him.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Doncic will be in the NBA soon enough, and then we'll see. Until then, the charges of racism get us nowhere. You say he's underrated because he's white; I say he's overrated for the same reason. It is well established that white players are more likely to get labeled "smart" than black ones. It's also true that "but he's smart" is a standard alibi for players that lack athleticism, regardless of their skin color. The combination of those factors means that there will be more white players who are mediocre athletes, but considered "smart," than there will be black athletes in the same category.

If he winds up with the Suns, I hope he does well; and if he winds up with another team, I hope the Suns don't regret failing to get him.

We just need to hit on this pick. If we do I don't think we will have regret about who we did or didn't draft.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's because of his skin color and the country of origin. If Doncic were black and from the states, nobody would be making up flaws in his game. Some people just don't like white European players and claim that every white guy from Europe is Darko Milicic.

I remain extremely curious about doncic. That said, he’s pretty unique. There haven’t exactly been any superstar white wings from Europe. Most of the big successes have been bigs.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I remain extremely curious about doncic. That said, he’s pretty unique. There haven’t exactly been any superstar white wings from Europe. Most of the big successes have been bigs.

Well he is actually being scouted as a PG and there have been some highly rated PG prospects. Ricky Rubio is a good example as he was very highly rated (was taken 5th overall) and Doncic is arguably a better facilitator and is a far better shooter/scorer.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well he is actually being scouted as a PG and there have been some highly rated PG prospects. Ricky Rubio is a good example as he was very highly rated (was taken 5th overall) and Doncic is arguably a better facilitator and is a far better shooter/scorer.

I think a bunch of US are scouting him as a pg. I really haven’t read that anywhere else. Most list him as a sg/sf. I’d still try him at the point until that fails because if he succeeds a backcourt of 6’8 and 6’6 is some height advantage the suns have never even come close to.

And i question if doncic is a better facilitator than Rubio. Rubio was predicted to be a wizard as a facilitator.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think a bunch of US are scouting him as a pg. I really haven’t read that anywhere else. Most list him as a sg/sf. I’d still try him at the point until that fails because if he succeeds a backcourt of 6’8 and 6’6 is some height advantage the suns have never even come close to.

And i question if doncic is a better facilitator than Rubio. Rubio was predicted to be a wizard as a facilitator.

Docic IS a better facilitator than Rubio right now, and he is a PG. He may end up playing different positions, but he is a point guard if I've ever seen a point guard. Perhaps not a point guard according to Slin, but he is a point guard by any other definition.

 

[JS22]

No thanks on Doncic. Rather keep Payton if he finishes strong and draft Ayton, or maybe even Jackson.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It's because of his skin color and the country of origin. If Doncic were black and from the states, nobody would be making up flaws in his game. Some people just don't like white European players and claim that every white guy from Europe is Darko Milicic.

What a load of BS. No one watched highlights of Andrei Kirilenko or Porzingis and knocked their athleticism. You know why that is? It’s because they’re ATHLETIC.

Dude doesn’t look that athletic in any of his videos. Saying so doesn’t make us racist. It makes us realists.

You’re acting like we’re the only ones saying this. EVERY scouting report says the same thing.

Some people think uber-athleticism is a very important part to being next level-game changing great. And that comes from years of watching that be the case with guys like Nash/Paul Pierce/Stockton being the exception to the rule. Going for someone like that with the first pick just makes no sense to me.

I’m sorry that offends you.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It's because of his skin color and the country of origin. If Doncic were black and from the states, nobody would be making up flaws in his game. Some people just don't like white European players and claim that every white guy from Europe is Darko Milicic.

I’ll also call BS on this another way. I didn’t want Tatum or Jackson. Why? Because I thought Jackson’s ceiling was higher with better athleticism. And guess what... Tatum’s BLACK!

Oh the horror.

Just because we have different ideas on what’s the best combo for a top pick To have doesn’t make us racists and to be honest you’re a douche for trying to drag us and the discussion to that level.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I’ll also call BS on this another way. I didn’t want Tatum or Jackson. Why? Because I thought Jackson’s ceiling was higher with better athleticism. And guess what... Tatum’s BLACK!

Oh the horror.

Just because we have different ideas on what’s the best combo for a top pick To have doesn’t make us racists and to be honest you’re a douche for trying to drag us and the discussion to that level.

But Tatum is lightskin so half white.

 

[SirStefan32]

I’ll also call BS on this another way. I didn’t want Tatum or Jackson. Why? Because I thought Jackson’s ceiling was higher with better athleticism. And guess what... Tatum’s BLACK!

Oh the horror.

Just because we have different ideas on what’s the best combo for a top pick To have doesn’t make us racists and to be honest you’re a douche for trying to drag us and the discussion to that level.

We don't have different ideas. We want the same guy at #1. I am just pointing out that your criticism of one player is unfair.

 

[GatorAZ]

Enfuego

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Answer to the thread title: SOOOOOOO Good!

 

[Treesquid PhD]

The Euro guys being white is not the problem, it's that they excel playing against a ton of white guys with more or less the same softer skill sets.

The way GMs like RMD always sell it to themselves is that they are "young" usually like 17-18. I would just stay away from another Euro with the options they will likely have this year.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

What a load of BS. No one watched highlights of Andrei Kirilenko or Porzingis and knocked their athleticism. You know why that is? It’s because they’re ATHLETIC.

Dude doesn’t look that athletic in any of his videos. Saying so doesn’t make us racist. It makes us realists.

You’re acting like we’re the only ones saying this. EVERY scouting report says the same thing.

Some people think uber-athleticism is a very important part to being next level-game changing great. And that comes from years of watching that be the case with guys like Nash/Paul Pierce/Stockton being the exception to the rule. Going for someone like that with the first pick just makes no sense to me.

I’m sorry that offends you.

The interesting thing is that RMD seems to love the stiffer Euro guys like Len (yes I know he played in the US) and Bender and not the fluid ones like Yanis. I see a lot of stiff Majerle like skills from this Euro guard, so I guess that would be ok if RMD heart is set on a euro.

 

[Hoop Head]

@hsandhu

I watched the McDonough video above you presented and here are some of my thoughts and takeaways from the interview as well.

The Suns are going to look to upgrade their team coming out of the All-Star break by searching the G-League and Chinese league to bulk up the tail end of the roster. He said as much in an earlier interview that he would try to upgrade the Suns roster through April.

I wish McDonough would be more specific as to who the "we" are when researching film on players. He does say they having a big scouting staff but I wish I knew more who is doing the scouting besides McDonough.

He says Payton is off to a phenomenal start but he wants to grade him over the remaining games. I think this may be a purposely restrained response because Payton has only played 3 games with the Suns and he will become a RFA after the season. McDonough understandably does not want to be committal and show all his cards just yet especially since the Suns do not want other teams to know who they might select in the draft.

IMO, a little cat and mouse is going on in the interview. The Suns want to upgrade the PG-Center position but do not want to tip their hand on who they might draft.

I like how McDonough keeps everything close to the vest but as a fan it drives me crazy. He hints that the Suns may be a player either in free agency and/or trades when a lot of teams do not have the money to spend and that it will be a buyer's market.

McDonough will offer Booker an extension this summer and he has another opportunity to offer him an extension when he becomes a RFA. He makes it very clear Booker is the core piece of the Suns. He will make every effort to put better players around Booker next season.

Triano will be evaluated in terms of player development... if the young players are getting better... not wins and losses.

Chriss has been playing with a nagging hip injury and hopefully the All-Star break will give him time to heal.

McDonough says the last 23 games will be all about evaluation looking towards the future. Also the Suns do not have any contracts that would prevent them from making some aggressive moves. He feels the Suns are ready for the next step.

This summer here we come.

I think James Jones count as part of the "we" that he mentioned. Of course with Jones being a rookie in the front office makes it hard to determine how good of a scout or talent evaluator he is but he did go to 7 straight finals with 2 different teams before retiring so he has an eye for selecting good teammates. You can say he just followed Lebron but he's been on title teams and should recognize the importance of end of the bench talent and personalities when building a contender.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think James Jones count as part of the "we" that he mentioned. Of course with Jones being a rookie in the front office makes it hard to determine how good of a scout or talent evaluator he is but he did go to 7 straight finals with 2 different teams before retiring so he has an eye for selecting good teammates. You can say he just followed Lebron but he's been on title teams and should recognize the importance of end of the bench talent and personalities when building a contender.

I think you are right James Jones is one of those people.

Maybe I'm old fashion but I like scouts that live scout games. It sounds like the Suns do a lot of video scouting which can be good and bad.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think James Jones count as part of the "we" that he mentioned. Of course with Jones being a rookie in the front office makes it hard to determine how good of a scout or talent evaluator he is but he did go to 7 straight finals with 2 different teams before retiring so he has an eye for selecting good teammates. You can say he just followed Lebron but he's been on title teams and should recognize the importance of end of the bench talent and personalities when building a contender.

Gravy training on OBVIOUS title contenders gives Jones an eye for good teammates? Lol. That’s ridiculous. ANYONE could have seen that on either team BLINDFOLDED.

Good lord... the lengths some of y’all go to defend guys who have either never proven anything or have demonstrably given us awfult results is really impressive.

 

[Hoop Head]

Gravy training on OBVIOUS title contenders gives Jones an eye for good teammates? Lol. That’s ridiculous. ANYONE could have seen that on either team BLINDFOLDED.

Good lord... the lengths some of y’all go to defend guys who have either never proven anything or have demonstrably given us awfult results is really impressive.

Do you have anything other than negative comments to add to anything? You bash McD at every chance you get, you've been piling on Doncic the last couple of days, and now you're saying that James Jones doesn't know what a championship team is comprised of. Seriously every thread where anyone posts something that isn't doom and gloom has you replying it to it trying to tear it apart because god forbid that there are people who are actual fans that don't harp on the negatives all the time and try to see some positives to the team they support.

Jones was highly regarded as a player and was a part of many contenders throughout his career. Sure he was a bench player but he was still a part of those teams and saw firsthand how a contending team is put together. When he was a player he was elected to be the treasurer of the players association which says something about how he was regarded by his peers, IMO. You don't have 14 year career as a reserve unless you're well liked and respected by your peers. He was a player who was often named to be a quality GM in the future after his career was over by the GM survey that is done every year before the season starts. Sorry that I think he's a quality to addition to the front office based on what other basketball players, coaches, analysts, and front office personnel said regarding Phoenix adding him to their front office this year.

 

[elindholm]

He was a player who was often named to be a quality GM in the future after his career was over by the GM survey that is done every year before the season starts.

I'd never heard that before. Do you have a source?