How Great is the 2017 draft class?

[ColdPickleNachos]

Also, NBA.com charts what types of plays each NBA teams run on offense by percentage:

http://stats.nba.com/teams/ball-handler/#!?sort=Time&dir=1

I'm not claiming that pick and rolls aren't important, but to dismiss a prospect simply on the notion that pick and rolls are everything is imho misleading at best.

Interesting to note:

1. The Suns run the pick and roll through the ball handler 23.6% of the time, which is the second most in the league.

2. The team that runs the pick and roll through the ball handler the least? The Golden State Warriors, at 10.9%.

 

[Russ Smith]

wasn't impressed really despite the stat line, the game was not competetive at any point. Washington is just so bad without Fultz.

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Was surprised he scored 19 without getting to the line even once.

And still don't want him as he does not show anything to stop my concerns, he has no pick and roll game at all, no in-between game, no pull-up game..

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I just dont think this style works in the NBA. The pick and roll is the bread and butter play of any NBA offense and he does not do it.

A lot of Lonzo's assists are just simple passes to a guy standing around the 3pt line shooting a little contested college 3. Or finding a cutter.

I don't think NBA defenses will allow these plays.

They beat UW WITH Fultz by 41, at UW, they beat them without Fultz at Pauley by 32, with Leaf only playing 5 minutes. So if Washington is so bad without Fultz, how come they were actually worse with him the first time around? I'm not blaming Fultz I'm just finding your logic train is off the tracks.

 

[Russ Smith]

Also, NBA.com charts what types of plays each NBA teams run on offense by percentage:

http://stats.nba.com/teams/ball-handler/#!?sort=Time&dir=1

I'm not claiming that pick and rolls aren't important, but to dismiss a prospect simply on the notion that pick and rolls are everything is imho misleading at best.

Interesting to note:

1. The Suns run the pick and roll through the ball handler 23.6% of the time, which is the second most in the league.

2. The team that runs the pick and roll through the ball handler the least? The Golden State Warriors, at 10.9%.

What does through the ballhandler mean, the PG or literally the guy handling the ball? I only ask because so often the Warriors have Draymond on the ball.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

What does through the ballhandler mean, the PG or literally the guy handling the ball? I only ask because so often the Warriors have Draymond on the ball.

To be completely honest, I'm not sure. They list "Pick and Roll Man" as well, so it is a combination of both. But the Warriors are dead last in frequency there as well, at 3.8%.

To be clear, not saying the pick and roll isn't important, just that it is not the ultimate decider of a point guard prospect's worth.

And it's not even clear Lonzo can't run it, just that he hasn't been asked to do so much. It's like a great qb prospect who runs a spread offense. It doesn't mean he won't be a star in a pro-style offense...just that he hasn't proven it yet.

 

[DWKB]

I find all this "game performance" evaluation rather odd. These teams are going to work out and measure these players and use that information to decide on draft targets.

I mean, what about Alex Len or Marquese Chriss college game performances made them lottery picks?

 

[Sunburn]

They beat UW WITH Fultz by 41, at UW, they beat them without Fultz at Pauley by 32, with Leaf only playing 5 minutes. So if Washington is so bad without Fultz, how come they were actually worse with him the first time around? I'm not blaming Fultz I'm just finding your logic train is off the tracks.

Fultz is UW's best player. Logic dictates they are worse without him. Point spread of two games is not really meaningful.

 

[Hoop Head]

I know Ball's dad is a problem but I think he'll be more interested getting the younger brothers into the NBA rather than meddling in the affairs of Lonzo during his first couple of seasons. If the Suns drafted him though I could see him being a real issue as far as calling our Sarver, and others, in the media if things aren't going perfectly.

Someone that close to a star bashing Sarver, while he's on the Suns, could be a good thing overall but it's tricky to gauge. A lot of question marks as far as how good he is as a pro and also how focused his dad will be once he's a pro.

 

[Russ Smith]

To be completely honest, I'm not sure. They list "Pick and Roll Man" as well, so it is a combination of both. But the Warriors are dead last in frequency there as well, at 3.8%.

To be clear, not saying the pick and roll isn't important, just that it is not the ultimate decider of a point guard prospect's worth.

And it's not even clear Lonzo can't run it, just that he hasn't been asked to do so much. It's like a great qb prospect who runs a spread offense. It doesn't mean he won't be a star in a pro-style offense...just that he hasn't proven it yet.

Yeah totally agree UCLA doesn't run it very much, not because Ball can't do it but because it's not their offense this year they are more wide open. He's done it quite well with Ike and started to do it some with Leaf too. Do they count pick and pop as a pick and roll or does it literally have to be a roll to be counted, UCLA runs pick and pop regularly and Lonzo is excellent at it.

 

[Russ Smith]

Fultz is UW's best player. Logic dictates they are worse without him. Point spread of two games is not really meaningful.

I agree but he used them getting blown out by UCLA as evidence of how much they missed Fultz and in reality they were more competitive wtihout him than they were with him against UCLA.

They're not a good team but my point on him all year has been he's putting up great stats but he's not "impacting" their bottom line, the scores in the games he's not played sort of beat that out. they suck with him, they suck without him, and they're not significantly worse without him.

I think on a team with other great players he'll be good, but I don't think hes' a guy who makes others better, which is Lonzo's strength on offense.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I agree but he used them getting blown out by UCLA as evidence of how much they missed Fultz and in reality they were more competitive wtihout him than they were with him against UCLA.

They're not a good team but my point on him all year has been he's putting up great stats but he's not "impacting" their bottom line, the scores in the games he's not played sort of beat that out. they suck with him, they suck without him, and they're not significantly worse without him.

I think on a team with other great players he'll be good, but I don't think hes' a guy who makes others better, which is Lonzo's strength on offense.

This is my concern about Fultz. Teams would be wise to look at this very carefully and not just make excuses for Fultz. The Suns do not need another stat seeker.

 

[Errntknght]

Running the pick & roll/pop is the least of my worries about Lonzo Ball, he's got all the skills needed to make it work well.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Running the pick & roll/pop is the least of my worries about Lonzo Ball, he's got all the skills needed to make it work well.

This is an incredible draft class and the talent goes well beyond Fultz and Ball. Fultz, healthy, will be an impact player from the beginning but Ball is the only player in this draft that I'm confident will change the fortunes of whichever team is lucky enough to draft him.

 

[Mainstreet]

This is an incredible draft class and the talent goes well beyond Fultz and Ball. Fultz, healthy, will be an impact player from the beginning but Ball is the only player in this draft that I'm confident will change the fortunes of whichever team is lucky enough to draft him.

I know you like Markkanen (as I do as well) but are you concerned about his average wingspan related to his height. Particularly I question his ability to rebound and block shots. In time hopefully his body should develop. I think there were questions about Markieff's arm length as well but he was shorter.

I've seen Markkanen play live (TV) and his arm length was a question mark for me.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I know you like Markkanen (as I do as well) but are you concerned about his average wingspan related to his height. Particularly I question his ability to rebound and block shots. In time hopefully his body should develop. I think there were questions about Markieff's arm length as well but he was shorter.

I've seen Markkanen play live (TV) and his arm length was a question mark for me.

Yeah, I've mentioned his less than ideal arm length a couple of times and it's his biggest drawback. This is going to sound like hyperbole but I really think that with ideal length he'd have had a fair chance to become one of the all time greats. Without it, that's not happening, but he can still be a game changer even with his physical limits.

Besides the slightly short arms, he also has a tendency to bring the ball too far back behind his head when he shoots which opens him up to being blocked from behind often. But the guy can shoot and he has a quick release so I still believe his floor is Channing Frye territory which is something we desperately need. He rebounds his position well but similar to the way Chandler does today, he will lose the occasional rebound to a leaper despite having inside position.

Anyway, I'd still love to have him but I'm thinking that if we can get a second pick I'd rather shoot for a Jonathan Isaac instead.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, I've mentioned his less than ideal arm length a couple of times and it's his biggest drawback. This is going to sound like hyperbole but I really think that with ideal length he'd have had a fair chance to become one of the all time greats. Without it, that's not happening, but he can still be a game changer even with his physical limits.

Besides the slightly short arms, he also has a tendency to bring the ball too far back behind his head when he shoots which opens him up to being blocked from behind often. But the guy can shoot and he has a quick release so I still believe his floor is Channing Frye territory which is something we desperately need. He rebounds his position well but similar to the way Chandler does today, he will lose the occasional rebound to a leaper despite having inside position.

Anyway, I'd still love to have him but I'm thinking that if we can get a second pick I'd rather shoot for a Jonathan Isaac instead.

The mechanics on Markkanen's shot do not bother me that much since he does not always bring the ball back that far. Sometimes I think his shot resembles Dirk. If Markkanen could rebound he would be almost a no-brainer.

With questions about Fultz not playing, Isaac could be the second pick in the draft.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This is an incredible draft class and the talent goes well beyond Fultz and Ball. Fultz, healthy, will be an impact player from the beginning but Ball is the only player in this draft that I'm confident will change the fortunes of whichever team is lucky enough to draft him.

And you don't want him bc of a mouthy dad?!?

 

[AzStevenCal]

And you don't want him bc of a mouthy dad?!?

I worry about his "mouthy dad" but the guy has backed off of some of his comments so I'm less concerned. He's no longer insisting that it's the Lakers or nothing for his son, he's claiming that he only meant that he'd like it to go that way.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I worry about his "mouthy dad" but the guy has backed off of some of his comments so I'm less concerned. He's no longer insisting that it's the Lakers or nothing for his son, he's claiming that he only meant that he'd like it to go that way.

Yeah even if he didn't back off them I think being scared off by them is silly. You take the best player. If he wants to hold out screw him. Wouldn't happen.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I'm still very excited about this draft class. I can say that even though I'd be very cautious when it comes to Markelle Fultz, Josh Jackson, Dennis Smith JR, Duke Tatum, De'Aaron Fox, Frank Ntilikina or Jarrett Allen to name more than a few of the highly regarded prospects in this class. And of that list I'm probably least concerned and therefore most interested in the least publicized from that group, the very long-armed kid from Texas, Jarrett Allen

 

[Russ Smith]

A reporter friend of mine who was at Pauley last night said he heard from several sources that Lonzo Ball's draft stock is "climbing if that is possible".

Nobody seemed to have a handle on what Fultz being out means, but he said everyone he talked to was saying the last 10 games or so Lonzo's defense has picked up so much that NBA scouts are even higher on him now.

 

[Mainstreet]

A reporter friend of mine who was at Pauley last night said he heard from several sources that Lonzo Ball's draft stock is "climbing if that is possible".

Nobody seemed to have a handle on what Fultz being out means, but he said everyone he talked to was saying the last 10 games or so Lonzo's defense has picked up so much that NBA scouts are even higher on him now.

I would have to think Ball would rise to the #1 slot in the mocks if Fultz is is still not playing.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Lonzo's shot has to be because he is right handed and left eye dominant. If that is the case, trying to "fix" his shot will ruin it. One of my sons has this condition.

Just as an illustration. This is a shotgun built for a left-eye dominant right-handed person. When Lonzo goes bird hunting, this is the type of gun he would have to use.

You must be registered for see images

 

[BC867]

Lonzo's shot has to be because he is right handed and left eye dominant. If that is the case, trying to "fix" his shot will ruin it. One of my sons has this condition.

I sort of had the same situation when I was a kid. They forced me to be a righty although I am a natural lefty. In Basic Training with the military after college, I had to qualify with an M-14 as a straight righty and made Sharpshooter. To this day, I write and eat righty.

My greatest thrill as a kid was when I saw another kid batting lefty at camp and decided to try it. I, the easy out, lined a double into the gap in right-center, drove in two runs to tie the game in the final inning and scored the winning run on a single. Oh, what a feeling! No climax has ever felt better.

 

[sunsfan88]

Looks like the Suns won't have to worry about whether or not to draft Ball...they likely won't even have the opportunity to do so.

 

[DWKB]

Local take on Josh Jackson:

Tom Keegan: Josh Jackson gets that the point is winning

He showed so many point guard skills, some of which are only attainable for a player his size. At 6-foot-8, Jackson can see over the defense, which blended with his peripheral vision, makes him see potential buckets for others that most don’t see.

Check out his November/December/January/February statistics in four categories: Scoring, rebounding, 3-point percentage, free-throw percentage.

Scoring: 14.1, 15.3, 17.3, 17.8.

Rebounding: 5.7, 6.7, 7.6, 8.2.

3-point percentage: .294, .222, .385, .478.

Free-throw percentage: .541, .545, .553, .582.

Other than a 3-point dip from November to December, Jackson improved every month in every category.

Not many players can say they guarded a 7-footer for most of the game and on the final defensive play stayed in front of a sub-6-foot point guard the way Jackson did in the victory at Baylor.

“He’s a good passer,” Self said of Jackson. “He’s probably our best passer on the team. He’s got great vision.”

One of the coolest things about Jackson’s approach to his career at Kansas is that he never looks like a player whose focus strays from the task at hand, which always is winning that day’s game. He seems content to let NBA talent judges project his talents and he’ll take care of helping Kansas extend its season.

http://www2.kusports.com/news/2017/mar/05/tom-keegan-josh-jackson-gets-point-winning/#comments