How Great is the 2017 draft class?

[JCSunsfan]

So. Say the Suns land a top 2 pick. Do they then trade Bledsoe for a mid to late first and a future pick? I think he would be worth that, especially since teams picking in that range are looking for more immediate contribution.

The Suns could come out of this draft with Ball/Leaf or Fultz/Hartenstein and a future first.

I like TJ Leaf. Ball is getting alot of attention but that kid can shoot and rebound. There is some Kevin Love in him. Hartenstein is an interesting prospect. He is long, has great skills, is a decent athlete, and has a Kevin Garnett disposition.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If he's only an otto porter that would be disappointing considering the hype of this draft. I would think he could be at least pre injury danny granger, who was all star level player

I think you're selling Porter a little low here. He's good enough to be the 3rd wheel on a championship vehicle and IMO even a complementary 'star' is worth a high pick IMO. As for Tatum, I don't think he's quite Danny Granger as he doesn't have the explosion or first step you'd want in a small forward.

More likely, he'll be used mostly as a 4 in the NBA so as to hide his Marcus Morris level quickness. If he's willing to take the pounding, he could be a very effective stretch 4 although his ISO-first tendency is less appealing to me than to some fans.

But he's a fairly smart player and a fairly well rounded one too so despite my feelings about Duke players, I could eventually learn to overlook his collegiate pedigree. I would, however, think it means the team is not convinced about the future of Chriss at the 4. JMO.

 

[AzStevenCal]

So. Say the Suns land a top 2 pick. Do they then trade Bledsoe for a mid to late first and a future pick? I think he would be worth that, especially since teams picking in that range are looking for more immediate contribution.

The Suns could come out of this draft with Ball/Leaf or Fultz/Hartenstein and a future first.

I like TJ Leaf. Ball is getting alot of attention but that kid can shoot and rebound. There is some Kevin Love in him. Hartenstein is an interesting prospect. He is long, has great skills, is a decent athlete, and has a Kevin Garnett disposition.

I'd prefer the Ball/Leaf pairing unless it turns out the knee problem is merely a lie of convenience, then I'd settle on Fultz and still probably go for Leaf. I like Leaf quite a bit and I know little about Hartenstein that I'd feel more comfortable going that way. As long as Ball's dad isn't going to try and force a change of venue for his son, which is what he's saying now. I heard him tell an interviewer he only meant it as a positive thinking mantra, just a "say it and it will happen" kind of thing.

 

[Russ Smith]

The craziest part about that criticism of the coach?

"LiAngelo scored 26 points on 9 of 32 shots – including 5 of 18 from three.

LaMelo Ball was even worse, making just 8 of 33 shots and going an astounding 8 for 28 from 3-point land."

He blamed the coach after his two sons combined to MISS 33 three-pointers!!!!!!!

That said, I still want Lonzo Ball on the Suns.

And the coach is a first year coach because last years coach won a national title and left because he didn't want to spend several more years not actually coaching. Lonzo is special and I think Melo is good too but the coach basically was a figure head the dad ran the show.

There's a soph big on the team named Onyeka Okongwu who's really good, top 20 national player. There's lots of rumors he'll leave Chino after this year because while he's great friends with the Ball brothers, he wants to be on a team the dad is not running.

Still take Lonzo though

 

[Russ Smith]

I haven't seen Fultz play in a live college game but our taste in this draft are very close in Fultz and Tatum.

and it appears you won't ever see Fultz play in a live college game because the doctors have still not cleared him to play so he's doubtful for tonight and sat against USC and unless something changes that means he won't play against USC in the first conf tourney game either.

They haven't ruled him out yet but Romar said he has not been cleared so it seems unlikely given their record that this is gamesmanship, seems like he probably won't play against UCLA tonight.

If he really is shut down for the year that would mean he missed I think 6 of the last 8 games with the sore knee.

 

[Mainstreet]

and it appears you won't ever see Fultz play in a live college game because the doctors have still not cleared him to play so he's doubtful for tonight and sat against USC and unless something changes that means he won't play against USC in the first conf tourney game either.

They haven't ruled him out yet but Romar said he has not been cleared so it seems unlikely given their record that this is gamesmanship, seems like he probably won't play against UCLA tonight.

If he really is shut down for the year that would mean he missed I think 6 of the last 8 games with the sore knee.

Unless the medical concerns are legitimate it sounds like he has promise.

 

[Errntknght]

If you guys think Josh Jackson is that good a defender, I vote for him...

 

[Russ Smith]

Unless the medical concerns are legitimate it sounds like he has promise.

Yeah I can't imagine the rationale in saying I have a sore knee if you don't because it's a red flag to NBA teams.

I'm hoping he magically heals in time to put up 50 on USC in the first round of the conf tourney so UCLA doesn't have to play USC again.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah I can't imagine the rationale in saying I have a sore knee if you don't because it's a red flag to NBA teams.

I'm hoping he magically heals in time to put up 50 on USC in the first round of the conf tourney so UCLA doesn't have to play USC again.

Again, I do not know his medical status but it sounds a lot like a promise. Either way, it raises red flags for me.

 

[Russ Smith]

Again, I do not know his medical status but it sounds a lot like a promise. Either way, it raises red flags for me.

He's officially not playing tonight against UCLA.

I agree it sounds like a promise in which case I assume he's not scared of saying my knee hurts because the promising team knows it's not true.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He's officially not playing tonight against UCLA.

I agree it sounds like a promise in which case I assume he's not scared of saying my knee hurts because the promising team knows it's not true.

I just don't see how it can be a "promise". At this point there are something like 18 teams that have a chance to draft first. What good would a promise be for a player almost guaranteed to go number one when no one has a clue who will be drafting at that spot?

 

[DWKB]

I just don't see how it can be a "promise". At this point there are something like 18 teams that have a chance to draft first. What good would a promise be for a player almost guaranteed to go number one when no one has a clue who will be drafting at that spot?

I agree, less promise and more protection. Better to heal up for the workouts than play in meaningless games. Sucks to be a UW BBall fan.

 

[Mainstreet]

I just don't see how it can be a "promise". At this point there are something like 18 teams that have a chance to draft first. What good would a promise be for a player almost guaranteed to go number one when no one has a clue who will be drafting at that spot?

I doubt if Fultz goes #1 if he does not play for the rest of the season and refuses teams workouts (or selects the teams) hence which might give suspicion of a promise.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I doubt if Fultz goes #1 if he does not play for the rest of the season and refuses teams workouts (or selects the teams) hence which might give suspicion of a promise.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I must be missing something because nothing about that scenario seems plausible to me. I'm sure he would have promises from a lot of teams if it weren't against the rules. At least, I'm pretty sure it's illegal and I believe something like that would always be exposed. When that happened, the league would take away several draft picks for a violation that severe in addition to a very hefty fine.

The only way I could see this being something other than a legit injury is if he's avoiding telling the truth about something worse or if he simply wants to save himself from the draft and he has no reasonable adult in his ear giving him career saving advice. The cost to Fultz for voluntarily giving up that number one spot isn't trivial.

 

[Mainstreet]

I must be missing something because nothing about that scenario seems plausible to me. I'm sure he would have promises from a lot of teams if it weren't against the rules. At least, I'm pretty sure it's illegal and I believe something like that would always be exposed. When that happened, the league would take away several draft picks for a violation that severe in addition to a very hefty fine.

The only way I could see this being something other than a legit injury is if he's avoiding telling the truth about something worse or if he simply wants to save himself from the draft and he has no reasonable adult in his ear giving him career saving advice. The cost to Fultz for voluntarily giving up that number one spot isn't trivial.

A promise can mean a player wants to know a certain team will draft him should he fall in the draft to a certain point. A promise can also mean a certain team will draft him no matter what. It could be the latter or the player is indeed medically unable to play.

 

[AzStevenCal]

A promise can mean a player wants to know a certain team will draft him should he fall in the draft to a certain point. A promise can also mean a certain team will draft him no matter what. It could be the latter or the player is indeed medically unable to play.

Yeah, but that's the problem. I'm almost positive it's against the rules to have this kind of contact with any college player until after the season.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah, but that's the problem. I'm almost positive it's against the rules to have this kind of contact with any college player until after the season.

I know, but it happens all the time. A team can say to a player, I guarantee you will not fall below #2,#3, #4 or #12, etc.

I've never seen it enforced.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I say, draft ball and then trade the Miami picks for a small forward that can also play some 4. Tatum is in that group but I think he's being over-valued and even if I'm wrong and he really is a special player, that would just make him that much harder to acquire. But one of the next group of Isaac, Markkanen, Miles Bridges and OG Anunoby might be available for the right price.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I know, but it happens all the time. A team can say to a player, I guarantee you will not fall below #2,#3, #4 or #12, etc.

I've never seen it enforced.

I've never seen it done. Sure, a promise once workouts are allowed is merely frowned upon but you're talking about something much worse.

 

[Mainstreet]

I've never seen it done. Sure, a promise once workouts are allowed is merely frowned upon but you're talking about something much worse.

It's all speculation, nothing more.

 

[Russ Smith]

Fultz didn't play last night, didn't see him moving to see if he's limping etc.

The game sucked anyways 5 minutes in Leaf blocks a shot lands on the guys foot and rolls his left ankle didn't come back. He's apparently going to be ok even some talk he might play Saturday but after Durant's knee the night before and Lonzo landing on I Ham's foot and rolling his ankle against ASU this is a bad trend developing.

I didn't watch the whole game but Lavin did say he didn't think it was for to Fultz to speculate if he's really hurt, he said he looked engaged on the bench cheering for his team and anything beyond that is unfair to him.

 

[GatorAZ]

Fultz didn't play last night, didn't see him moving to see if he's limping etc.

The game sucked anyways 5 minutes in Leaf blocks a shot lands on the guys foot and rolls his left ankle didn't come back. He's apparently going to be ok even some talk he might play Saturday but after Durant's knee the night before and Lonzo landing on I Ham's foot and rolling his ankle against ASU this is a bad trend developing.

I didn't watch the whole game but Lavin did say he didn't think it was for to Fultz to speculate if he's really hurt, he said he looked engaged on the bench cheering for his team and anything beyond that is unfair to him.

Apparently Magic and Luke Walton were in the house last night. Hmmm...

Lonzo with the complete package: 19-7-8-4-0 To's. That tap back on the alley opp. Who does that?

 

[Russ Smith]

Apparently Magic and Luke Walton were in the house last night. Hmmm...

Lonzo with the complete package: 19-7-8-4-0 To's. That tap back on the alley opp. Who does that?

Yep Magic and Luke were there, no doubt scouting GG Goloman (-:

Lonzo has made some passes that just boggle the mind . honestly the best pass of the night not only wasn't an assist but it led to a charge. He caught a ball going up court and just on a dime stopped and fired a laser between 2 defenders hands like Aaron Rodgers that hit Holiday in stride. But Holiday ran over a defender going in for the layup so he didn't get the assist. About the 3rd time this year he's made a pass like that.

We haven't seen in a game yet the ones he did in HS where he'd get a rebound turn and still in the air whip the ball past halfcourt for an outlet.

It still amazes me he hasn't gotten a triple double yet but I don't think he's particularly interested in stats, he was close last night but only played 30 minutes.

Given everything else he does I'm assuming he'll heal Leafs' ankle now too.

 

[slinslin]

Apparently Magic and Luke Walton were in the house last night. Hmmm...

Lonzo with the complete package: 19-7-8-4-0 To's. That tap back on the alley opp. Who does that?

wasn't impressed really despite the stat line, the game was not competetive at any point. Washington is just so bad without Fultz.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Was surprised he scored 19 without getting to the line even once.

And still don't want him as he does not show anything to stop my concerns, he has no pick and roll game at all, no in-between game, no pull-up game..

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

I just dont think this style works in the NBA. The pick and roll is the bread and butter play of any NBA offense and he does not do it.

A lot of Lonzo's assists are just simple passes to a guy standing around the 3pt line shooting a little contested college 3. Or finding a cutter.

I don't think NBA defenses will allow these plays.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

He had 19 points on 8-10 shooting, including 3-4 from 3...and you rip him for not getting to the line in a game they win by over 30?

He had 8 assists, including passes that were cross-court and highlight reel tip passes, and ZERO turnovers...and you discount it as simplistic?

He gets 7 rebounds, a block, and 4 steals in a blowout...and it's only because the opponent is bad?

I don't get it.