How Great is the 2017 draft class?

[slinslin]

Isaac is projected by many to be a PF, not a SF.

 

[slinslin]

I'll admit I wasn't thinking about the difference in age, just that Marcus in his final year at Kansas played a lot like Tatum does right now. And I'm sure Tatum will continue to improve as Morris has done, my concern is that he's probably not going to get any quicker. I'm not convinced (as in, I really do not know) that he'll be able to dominate in the NBA given how much quicker the average small forward is at this level.

Tatum is in a different stratosphere athletically compared to Marcus Morris.

 

[Russ Smith]

And scored what 5 points in their most important game of the season. Lets see how that scoring holds up against the tougher opponents UCLA will play now.

you're going to have to explain that one since you apparently think a 42 point win over UC Riverside early in the year was their most important game of the season. That's the only game this year he scored 5 poitns. His low for the season was 4 against ASU UCLA won easily he took only 6 shots in the game.

I'm guessing you are talking about the arizona loss in the conf tourney where he jammed his thumb so badly they thought it was broken, and a week later he showed up at the presser yesterday with the thumb wrapped and going up to his arm. He's going to play but as I said yesterday I'm quite concerned about that because if you watch the ARizona game and watch Lonzo he's playing 1 handed, he's taking the left hand off the ball on his shots. The announcers reported that when warming up for the 2nd half he was not touching the ball with the left hand at all.

 

[Russ Smith]

Even if they are inefficient relatively speaking they are an integral part of the scoring of literally every top level PG in the NBA.

Ball is an atrocious shooter off the dribble, it's a real red flag.

how do you know this he rarely does it.

 

[elindholm]

None of Kidd, Nash, Harden had much of an impact their first year

Kidd won co-ROY with Grant Hill.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I just keep thinking that it might not matter who we like. I can see McD doing something like swapping picks and Knight/Drummond.

 

[DWKB]

A 19 year old Marcus? Not a chance, but Marcus right now? Maybe. Thing is that Tatum should make major improvements from where he is right now and Marcus is what he is at this point.

Marcus Morris was a Naismith award finalist in his junior year of college, but he was a lost child as a 19 year old freshman.

 

[3rdside]

Kidd won co-ROY with Grant Hill.

It didn't feel right saying that - Kidd as a rookie with 34 minutes a game averaging 12 8 and 5, but on .385% shooting - so thanks for correcting, was at a train station when I wrote it.

 

[Russ Smith]

Interesting article on Lonzo Ball.

https://theringer.com/lonzo-ball-ucla-shooting-mechanics-6eeda2ef3e41#.dkd3y1d8n

Very long the part I found interesting was the different basketballs theory. If you buy that, they are using Wilson's in the NCAA tourney and Lonzo likes Wilson's.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Interesting article on Lonzo Ball.

https://theringer.com/lonzo-ball-ucla-shooting-mechanics-6eeda2ef3e41#.dkd3y1d8n

Very long the part I found interesting was the different basketballs theory. If you buy that, they are using Wilson's in the NCAA tourney and Lonzo likes Wilson's.

He is left eye dominant and right handed. Why is this so hard to understand?

The writer's speculation that this shooting style is from trying to heave up 30 footers as an eleven year old is silly. That motion does not compensate at all for lack of strength, in fact, it is counter to it.

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[Mainstreet]

I go to Vegas every Summer League to check out the Suns; have been doing it for about 10 years now.

Kendall Marshall was the worst prospect we invested in by far. You can't always tell who is going to be good, but you can usually tell if someone doesn't have it. It was painfully obvious Marshall didn't have it...to the point that I was shocked when he had brief success as a back-up later in his career.

I agree about Marshall. He was slow, could not jump and he was a poor shooter. I don't know how the Suns could have made this mistake. Then the Suns make a similar mistake by drafting Tyler Ennis.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I agree about Marshall. He was slow, could not jump and he was a poor shooter. I don't know how the Suns could have made this mistake. Then the Suns make a similar mistake by drafting Tyler Ennis.

Yeah. I came away from summer league the year we drafted Ennis going, "Well, at least he looked a little better than Marshall."

Ennis was a pretty perplexing pick at the time. I wanted Gary Harris.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah. I came away from summer league the year we drafted Ennis going, "Well, at least he looked a little better than Marshall."

I've often thought the Suns drafted Ennis in hopes they could trade him to Toronto.

 

[Carolinacacti]

Watched Jacksonville ST today. Norbertas Giga 7foot Euro, looked good.

 

[hsandhu]

Dont want to get too excited yet, but we may be close to guaranteeing one of the big five: fultz, ball, jackson, tatum or isaac.

The 3 spot only has a 4% of of sliding to the 6.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Dont want to get too excited yet, but we may be close to guaranteeing one of the big five: fultz, ball, jackson, tatum or isaac.

The 3 spot only has a 4% of of sliding to the 6.

so, you're telling me there's a chance!

 

[slinslin]

how do you know this he rarely does it.

Dont want to get too excited yet, but we may be close to guaranteeing one of the big five: fultz, ball, jackson, tatum or isaac.

The 3 spot only has a 4% of of sliding to the 6.

where is isaac considered top 5? Draftexpress has him 9th.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

where is isaac considered top 5? Draftexpress has him 9th.

He's number 5 on Chad Ford's Big Board, for one.

IMHO, there is a clear top 4 (Ball, Fultz, Tatum, Jackson), and then you have the next tier (Smith Jr., Fox, Monk, Isaac, Markkanen).

However, Isaac is probably the most convenient fit for the Suns in that second tier IF you believe he'll develop.

I'm a little torn. I think he has tremendous upside, but I think he also has the best chance to bust out of of those 9 players.

He would probably be my pick at #5, but I would much rather get one of those top 4 picks.

 

[slinslin]

Ok Chad Ford..

Besides I was not making a comparison that Ball and Marshall are the same player. I made a comparison that they were both top notch faciliators who struggle in half-court settings and get the majority of their production in transition and also that they had major flaws in their scoring game. Someone made the point that the Suns would be immediately better simply by adding a "pass first PG" or whatever you want to call that.

Ball is one of the most efficient scorers in the college game. His top-line analytics are staggering: Ball has a 66.7 true shooting percentage and scores 108 points per 100 plays; 56.3 percent of his field goal attempts are threes (he hits 41 percent of those). The overall efficiency is propped up a little because 31 percent of his plays (a massive chunk) have come in transition, where he scores 112 points per 100. Getting out and running is an effective strategy, and a big reason why the Bruins lead the NCAA with 90.4 points per game, but it’s not quite as telling for what Ball will be able to do in the NBA. For that, catch him spotting up for that broken-looking jumper of his — he scores 125 points per 100 plays on spot-ups, which is just as impressive as it sounds.

Where Ball isn’t as polished is on the pick-and-roll — a play type that fellow top prospect Markelle Fultz of Washington excels at. Ball scores a more mediocre 78 points per 100 pick-and-roll plays. He’s also just a so-so rebounder for his size, with a 9.4 total rebound rate and 14.4 defensive rebound rate, neither of which is overly impressive for a 6-foot-6 superathlete.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I guess my point is that I prefer "a skilled distributor with a generous mindset", particularly with Booker on this team.

I see where you are drawing parallels with Marshall and Ball, I just think there is a huge difference between the two and that Marshall failed because he presented absolutely no threat to score (way below average athleticism combined with poor shooting) while Ball doesn't concern me in those areas.

I think it's easy to fall into the "types of players" comparisons, but there's a failure for every archetype.

- We shouldn't draft Monk because he's an undersized shooting guard who does little besides hoist up jumpers. Sounds like Brandon Knight.

- We shouldn't draft Markannen because he's a seven footer who mainly just shoots threes and is average down low. He's Frank Kaminsky at best.

- Josh Jackson does everything he can to help his team win at an elite level, but his jumper looks weird. No thanks. We don't need another MKG at #3.

We should stay away from Fultz and Smith Jr. because ball dominant guards whose teams don't win rarely work out and stay away from Tatum because, well, have you seen how high-profile Duke players perform in the NBA?

Teams backed off of Amare in 2002 because three high school big men disappointed in 2001.

Teams backed off of Porzingis because tall Europeans that play on the outside never work out.

Ultimately, the reasons why players do or do not work out is far more nuanced than is convenient. So the two questions I generally ask are:

1. Does the player seem to have "It"? (This is extremely subjective at this point. I think Lonzo Ball is the player who passes this test the best, and you CLEARLY disagree.)

2. If the player reaches his potential, is he the type of player I think would be a good fit on this team and lead to winning basketball with the young parts already in place?

Again, subjective, but I prefer Ball.

 

[slinslin]

The thing with Monk is that he has played PG all his life. He is playing SG at Kentucky because they also have Fox.

It is hard to guage how much potential he has as a PG in the NBA. It is similiar to the case of Jamaal Murray last year.

If I was running the Sixers I would have Monk near the very top of my list as a PG since they have Ben Simmons it seems like a perfect fit even if Monk never is a great playmaker.

 

[Russ Smith]

Ok Chad Ford..

Besides I was not making a comparison that Ball and Marshall are the same player. I made a comparison that they were both top notch faciliators who struggle in half-court settings and get the majority of their production in transition and also that they had major flaws in their scoring game. Someone made the point that the Suns would be immediately better simply by adding a "pass first PG" or whatever you want to call that.

And yet Ball averages 15 PPG and last night playing one handed in the first half his first shot was an off the dribble pull up midrange jumper that went in. Then after that ridiculously hard fall, he still played most of the 2ndhalf and made several big plays off the ball since UCLA used Holiday at the 1 to take some pressure off a clearly limping Lonzo.

he's not the scorer Fultz is I agree, that's because he's more focused on moving the ball, as they showed during the game last night he led the country in assists, and probably led the country in hockey assists.

Marshall not being a good pro was very predictable because he's such a sub par athlete for a PG in the NBA, Ball isn't.

 

[slinslin]

Isaac did not help his stock at all.

 

[Finito]

Isaac did not help his stock at all.

FSU shouldn't of gotten off the bus. Got blown out just one of those days when everything goes wrong

 

[hsandhu]

FSU shouldn't of gotten off the bus. Got blown out just one of those days when everything goes wrong

I watched most of the game, issac rarely gets touches on offense, 4--6. Any time he does you can see the skill level, handle and shoot very smoothly.