How Long Before A Move Is Made?

[overseascardfan]

This team needs to make a change. They are getting beat up on the boards and in the paint and the Bledsoe/Dragic combo unlike last year is not working.

PHX has many pieces on the roster that could generate interest:
Green - Expiring contract that provides instant offense
Dragic - Talented player also expiring
Plumlee - Active, young, cheap big man
Isaiah Thomas - A bargain for his contract.


I would say deal Bledsoe but his contract makes Dragic or Thomas more valuable and appealing to other teams.

Rumors are LAL & CHI could be interested in Green. Jordan Hill is looking pretty good right now not sure what CHI has that would be of help to PHX that they would be willing to deal.

A deal for Dragic may be trickier as teams probably won't offer too much without an extension in place before a deal. There are bigs like Brook Lopez, Roy Hibbert & Greg Monroe on the block, but they are all on the block for a reason: Lopez is injury prone, Hibbert has regressed after his great start to the season & Monroe is also expiring.

Not sure what Plumlee's trade value is but he is not a starter as he gets abused on the defensive end by true centers and has neither the offensive post skills to be effective or mid range game to draw opposing centers away from the basket. He may have to be included in a deal with another piece.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm keying on December 15th, when players acquired in the off season can be traded. Nothing may happen for the Suns on that date but at least it starts the process.

 

[Mainstreet]

In regard to who the Suns trade, I think it depends on which players return the most value. Somehow I wish the Suns could get Mason Plumlee from the Nets but I'm beginning to sound like a broken record on this.

 

[sunsfan88]

In regard to who the Suns trade, I think it depends on which players return the most value. Somehow I wish the Suns could get Mason Plumlee from the Nets but I'm beginning to sound like a broken record on this.

I'm with you but I feel like with BKY trying to trade Lopez, it means they see Mason Plumlee as their future C.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm with you but I feel like with BKY trying to trade Lolez, it means they see Mason Plumlee as their future C.

Sadly this is the case. I knew it was just a matter of time before the Nets would need Plumlee as Brook Lopez seems injury prone.

 

[Covert Rain]

We have to be careful with any trades. I mean many of us wanted this team to build from the ground up with young talent. Making a trade at this point has to be very well thought out and beneficial for the long term health of the franchise.

Making a trade just to get a name in there that will damage the franchise long term while we sit for the playoffs or get bounced early doesn't help the Suns.

 

[Mainstreet]

We have to be careful with any trades. I mean many of us wanted this team to build from the ground up with young talent. Making a trade at this point has to be very well thought out and beneficial for the long term health of the franchise.

Making a trade just to get a name in there that will damage the franchise long term while we sit for the playoffs or get bounced early doesn't help the Suns.

It's probably giving the Suns FO too much credit but I would hope they have already thought about the trade prospects thoroughly.

 

[overseascardfan]

The frustrating thing is PHX (Hornacek & management) know what the problem is and yet it seems like they seem like they are dragging their feet over fixing the problem. With tomorrow being 12/15 lets see if there is an increase in scuttlebutt about possible moves. One thing is for sure, Bledsoe ain't going anywhere unless we take a contract like his back in return. With CLE finally clicking on all cylinders I don't think they would be interested in Bledsoe now. Dragic & Green are the most logical choices with Thomas & Plumlee also in the mix.

I just hope PHX stops acquiring protected first round picks as their plan of stockpiling them looks be be back firing as LA & MIN picks look like they will be late 1st round at best but more likely 2nd rounders.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The frustrating thing is PHX (Hornacek & management) know what the problem is and yet it seems like they seem like they are dragging their feet over fixing the problem. With tomorrow being 12/15 lets see if there is an increase in scuttlebutt about possible moves. One thing is for sure, Bledsoe ain't going anywhere unless we take a contract like his back in return. With CLE finally clicking on all cylinders I don't think they would be interested in Bledsoe now. Dragic & Green are the most logical choices with Thomas & Plumlee also in the mix.

I just hope PHX stops acquiring protected first round picks as their plan of stockpiling them looks be be back firing as LA & MIN picks look like they will be late 1st round at best but more likely 2nd rounders.

Okay, what is this problem they've identified and what is the fix they've chosen to drag their feet on? I really don't see it. I see a bunch of problems and I don't see easy fixes for most of them. We don't have a clear leader but that has to be figured out amongst the players. We have a team of players committed to playing defense for about 8 seconds.

We have no inside presence defensively and we keep our best inside scorer on the perimeter far too often. We have poor spacing which leads to forced shots and too many turnovers. And the real killer, we have a lot of rotations players but all told it's a fairly average collection of talent. I don't see a one year fix. Now, we should and I believe we will play better, but this just isn't a team yet. It's a gathering of individuals.

Steve

 

[overseascardfan]

Okay, what is this problem they've identified and what is the fix they've chosen to drag their feet on? I really don't see it. I see a bunch of problems and I don't see easy fixes for most of them. We don't have a clear leader but that has to be figured out amongst the players. We have a team of players committed to playing defense for about 8 seconds.

We have no inside presence defensively and we keep our best inside scorer on the perimeter far too often. We have poor spacing which leads to forced shots and too many turnovers. And the real killer, we have a lot of rotations players but all told it's a fairly average collection of talent. I don't see a one year fix. Now, we should and I believe we will play better, but this just isn't a team yet. It's a gathering of individuals.

Steve

All the more reason to make some changes now.

Rebounding and post defense have been the MAIN issue. Opposing big men have had career games on PHX the last couple of seasons because we have guys that can't rebound or protect the rim. How many moves has PHX made the last couple of years? How many have solved or at least helped to improve those areas? None is the answer.

Last year the backcourt carried the team and Dragic looked liked he could lead this team and Bledsoe showed signs of being at least an All-Star before injuries robbed him of half the season. They have accumulated all these "assets" but haven't been able to parlay them into helping this team long term.

 

[AzStevenCal]

All the more reason to make some changes now.

Rebounding and post defense have been the MAIN issue. Opposing big men have had career games on PHX the last couple of seasons because we have guys that can't rebound or protect the rim. How many moves has PHX made the last couple of years? How many have solved or at least helped to improve those areas? None is the answer.

Last year the backcourt carried the team and Dragic looked liked he could lead this team and Bledsoe showed signs of being at least an All-Star before injuries robbed him of half the season. They have accumulated all these "assets" but haven't been able to parlay them into helping this team long term.

I don't disagree with most of this but keep in mind that 16 months ago we had arguably the least talent in the NBA and no young talent. There isn't an overnight fix for the miserable mess we were in. We're not going to lose the Lakers pick as you suggested earlier, it has real value. Maybe we don't get it this season but then it goes to top 3 protected the next 2 seasons and I think the Minny pick pre-dates McDonough. Anyway, it takes time to dig out of a hole as deep as we were in. Boston did the same kind of thing and eventually turned them into a championship but they had to collect those assets for several years before that opportunity came up.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

All the more reason to make some changes now.

Rebounding and post defense have been the MAIN issue. Opposing big men have had career games on PHX the last couple of seasons because we have guys that can't rebound or protect the rim. How many moves has PHX made the last couple of years? How many have solved or at least helped to improve those areas? None is the answer.

Last year the backcourt carried the team and Dragic looked liked he could lead this team and Bledsoe showed signs of being at least an All-Star before injuries robbed him of half the season. They have accumulated all these "assets" but haven't been able to parlay them into helping this team long term.

I don't disagree with most of this but keep in mind that 16 months ago we had arguably the least talent in the NBA and no young talent. There isn't an overnight fix for the miserable mess we were in. We're not going to lose the Lakers pick as you suggested earlier, it has real value. Maybe we don't get it this season but then it goes to top 3 protected the next 2 seasons and I think the Minny pick pre-dates McDonough. Anyway, it takes time to dig out of a hole as deep as we were in. Boston did the same kind of thing and eventually turned them into a championship but they had to collect those assets for several years before that opportunity came up.

Steve

Excellent points by both. I think between December 15th and the trade deadline the Suns will address these issues. If we can see the problem I'm sure Ryan McDonough can see the problem as well. IMO, McDonough has been waiting for the opportunity to make changes with the roster. My biggest concern at the moment is the Suns lack of focus, especially on defense.

 

[elindholm]

I don't disagree with most of this but keep in mind that 16 months ago we had arguably the least talent in the NBA and no young talent. There isn't an overnight fix for the miserable mess we were in.

All the more reason that last year's unexpected success did the franchise more harm than good. They played themselves out of a top-ten pick in a great draft, and now won't even develop the talent that they got in Warren and Ennis, because they are too focused on the quixotic dream of making the playoffs.

Out of impatience to improve on last year's ninth seed finish, the whole organization has "quick-fix-itis," and that trickles down to the on-court product. Get burned for an easy layup? Try to get it back right away with a quick three. Get slightly out of position on defense? Gamble on a steal or a dumb foul instead of working hard to recover. Teach discipline and accountability, or roll with the easier short-term path of run-and-fun? No one can figure out where this team is or where it is going, and that's why you see so many incoherent, reckless decisions.

 

[Superbone]

I see it as one of two choices. Either mix it up and go after some trades that reduce the log jam in the backcourt and brings some frontcourt presence or keep the roster as is and start developing the young talent like Warren, Ennis, Goodwin and get a high draft pick in the next draft.

Either one of these is fine but the status quo isn't.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I see it as one of two choices. Either mix it up and go after some trades that reduce the log jam in the backcourt and brings some frontcourt presence or keep the roster as is and start developing the young talent like Warren, Ennis, Goodwin and get a high draft pick in the next draft.

Either one of these is fine but the status quo isn't.

I'm not quite there yet. If there is a good trade available, I'd go that route but I wouldn't scrap the season just yet if there isn't one.

Steve

 

[SirStefan32]

I am with Superbone on this one. Drop a deuce or get off the pot. Sitting there, waiting for it to turn into gold doesn't really do anything.

One PG needs to go, one needs to be slightly demoted, and a big man or two need to be added. Doesn't matter if it's now, in the summer, during next season, or the one after that. Bledsoe isn't gonna learn how to run the offense during this year, not is Thomas going to learn to not stop the ball, nor is Dragic going to turn into an excellent shooting guard. Morris isn't gonna learn how to rebound, nor are the Morris twins, IT, and Green going to become good defenders. Crap doesn't turn into gold no matter how long you sit on the toilet.

 

[BC867]

I am with Superbone on this one. Drop a deuce or get off the pot. Sitting there, waiting for it to turn into gold doesn't really do anything.

One PG needs to go, one needs to be slightly demoted, and a big man or two need to be added. Doesn't matter if it's now, in the summer, during next season, or the one after that. Bledsoe isn't gonna learn how to run the offense during this year, not is Thomas going to learn to not stop the ball, nor is Dragic going to turn into an excellent shooting guard. Morris isn't gonna learn how to rebound, nor are the Morris twins, IT, and Green going to become good defenders. Crap doesn't turn into gold no matter how long you sit on the toilet.

Not only spot on, but funny as well.

'Sorry, AzStevenCal, but if not scrapping the season means doing nothing and continuing to crap the season (as Stefan so eloquently put it), I say, "Scrap it." Don't wait 'til the off-season to make moves that will correct the inbalance of our roster.

That seems more important than the front office saving face, which this seems to be turning into. The rest of the league has figured out how to beat the Suns, especially with the game on the line.

 

[cly2tw]

How about Stephonson for Thomas + Green? Lance has a good contract and starts at SF if we keep start Dragic at SG. Later bundle Bledsoe to get rid one Morris for something else, say Jordan Hill +Boozer + Pick.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Not only spot on, but funny as well.

'Sorry, AzStevenCal, but if not scrapping the season means doing nothing and continuing to crap the season (as Stefan so eloquently put it), I say, "Scrap it." Don't wait 'til the off-season to make moves that will correct the inbalance of our roster.

That seems more important than the front office saving face, which this seems to be turning into. The rest of the league has figured out how to beat the Suns, especially with the game on the line.

I'm not arguing against that. I'm just not sure the trade we need is out there. And I don't want to give away assets. If the trade isn't out there, I want them to figure out how to make the most of what we have so that when the right trade is there, our pieces will draw interest.

Steve

 

[sunsfan88]

We don't have that many assets. We have a bunch of crap and some youngsters who don't get playing time because of the ton of crap that's in front of them. That's what we have.

 

[sunsfan88]

Wonder if the Kings will now look to blow it up or if Cousins will demand a trade (Malone and him were reportedly were close).

Cousins would be perfect in PHX and he would probably like PHX too since he can rejoin his buddy Kentucky alumni Eric Bledsoe.

Dragic, Thomas, Green, Tolliver, Suns 2014 first rd pick, Lakers 2014 first rd pick, Suns 2015 and 2017 first rd picks and, Plumlee or Len for Cousins, McLemore (who has improved dramatically this season on both sides of the ball and is still incredibly young) and fillers?

Bledsoe/Ennis
McLemore/Goodwin
Tucker/Warren
Kieff/Marcus
Cousins/Len

Hell I would even be willing to take on any bad contracts the Kings have.

And before someone says "Cousins is a cancer" um no, please do your research before making such statements. He's matured more than anyone else in the NBA over the past 2-3 years.

The trade offer I proposed probably isn't enough for an incredibly young big man dropping 24 pts and 13 rebounds on fantastic efficiency but still worth a try.

I'd hate to trade Dragic but Cousins is one of those dominant players that I'd give up Goran for.

 

[elindholm]

I'd hate to trade Dragic but Cousins is one of those dominant players that I'd give up Goran for.

If the Kings decide to move Cousins -- and it's extremely unlikely -- someone will offer a better deal than anything the Suns could put together.

 

[sunsfan88]

If the Kings decide to move Cousins -- and it's extremely unlikely -- someone will offer a better deal than anything the Suns could put together.

But haven't we been stockpiling assets to pull off a trade for a superstar? Isn't that what everyone including Ryan McD himself has been saying?

But wait, you mean our assets dont have much value?

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[sunsfan88]

How about Stephonson for Thomas + Green? Lance has a good contract and starts at SF if we keep start Dragic at SG. L

Not a terrible idea since Lance, like you said, is on a very team friendly contract and is an excellent defender and rebounder (both of which we have desperately needed on this team for over 16 years)

 

[AzStevenCal]

Not a terrible idea since Lance, like you said, is on a very team friendly contract and is an excellent defender and rebounder (both of which we have desperately needed on this team for over 16 years)

Really? I think it's a terrible idea. Ignoring the chemistry side of things, you don't think he has a lot of the same weaknesses that Bledsoe has? If we go after a small forward/shooting guard I'd really hope it would be for one that could shoot and handle the ball a little better than Lance does.

Steve