I’m Confused

[GuernseyCard]

Easy... first of all, it's unlikely a team would spill the beans on the record, if Keim asked the GM to keep it under wraps. So if word got out, it would most likely be in the form of a rumor from an unattributed source, and Keim could simply deny it. Or at worst, he could say something like, "We listen to all offers, and some teams called to discuss trading for Rosen, but the Cardinals are happy with Rosen as their QBOF and we were not interested in any of the offers."

...dbs

Plausible deniability in my work is taking responsibility for actions without briefing my boss as to the details. Yours is simply lying.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I would want to create a bidding war with as many teams as possible. Let every GM know that Rosen is an option right now. Let rumors start circulating about offers coming in.

I think the media has that covered without the Cardinals needing to say anything.

Again, the Cardinals do not HAVE TO trade Rosen, no matter what they do.

There is a book's worth of examples on this message board that "Rosen is not that good". So, keep him as a backup QB, if they draft Murray.

There have been plenty of backups that have been traded for a lot more than they are worth, just because they were "stuck behind" another great QB.

Matt Flynn, Matt Schaub, just to name two off the top of my head.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I only have issue if they are taking Murray, because that means another move has to be made with Rosen. This is a great strategy if they are not set on Murray

It certainly does not. The Cardinals do not HAVE TO do anything.

 

[AZCB34]

Bottom line the NFL wants the suspense going down to the wire with the #1 pick unlike years past! It’s called ratingS!

Nonsense. The ratings will be there regardless of how the Cards handle this thing. You actually think if the Cards announced today they are taking Murray or whomever, fewer people would watch?

 

[Ohcrap75]

It certainly does not. The Cardinals do not HAVE TO do anything.

Well, OF course THE Cardinals don't HAVE to DO anything. They don't HAVE to EVEN select A player at #1. But THAT would BE idiotic, just LIKE keeping Rosen ON the roster AFTER selecting Murray.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Well, OF course THE Cardinals don't HAVE to DO anything. They don't HAVE to EVEN select A player at #1. But THAT would BE idiotic, just LIKE keeping Rosen ON the roster AFTER selecting Murray.

Truly idiotic would be getting less than fair value for Rosen.

And does anyone truly believe that KM will be ready to start in the NFL first week?

 

[slanidrac16]

Truly idiotic would be getting less than fair value for Rosen.

And does anyone truly believe that KM will be ready to start in the NFL first week?

I know a lot of people feel we need to get a#1 for Rosen but if we were to get a 2nd and 3rd for him and that turned into Deebo Samuel and Chris Lindstrom would that be so bad?

 

[kerouac9]

I know a lot of people feel we need to get a#1 for Rosen but if we were to get a 2nd and 3rd for him and that turned into Deebo Samuel and Chris Lindstrom would that be so bad?

You can't predict that when you make the trade. It could just as easily be Kevin Minter and Jamell Fleming. In fact, it's more likely to be like that. Or Troy Niklas and Brandon Williams.

 

[slanidrac16]

You can't predict that when you make the trade. It could just as easily be Kevin Minter and Jamell Fleming. In fact, it's more likely to be like that. Or Troy Niklas and Brandon Williams.

I get it. But a #1 could be another Buchanan and a 2nd and 3rd could be Buddy Baker and TM. It’s all a crap shoot.

 

[daves]

Plausible deniability in my work is taking responsibility for actions without briefing my boss as to the details. Yours is simply lying.

This may come as a shock to you, but lying is part of every GM's job. The public is not entitled to know the details of every discussion a GM has with other GMs. GMs explore trade possibilities all the time, but they don't want the affected players to get butt hurt over it, so when they're asked point-blank questions by the media, they deny they did so or say that inquiries were made but were not taken seriously.

I find it difficult to believe that you don't realize this, so i'm not sure why you're acting incredulous at my suggestion that Keim could be quietly shopping Rosen to judge how other teams perceive his value, yet he could be prepared to keep Rosen, and if that happens, he would prefer for Rosen not to think that he doesn't have the full support of the team. Rumors could be out there, but as long as he can plausibly deny them, Rosen might have his suspicions, but couldn't be sure of the truth.

...dbs

 

[kerouac9]

This may come as a shock to you, but lying is part of every GM's job. The public is not entitled to know the details of every discussion a GM has with other GMs. GMs explore trade possibilities all the time, but they don't want the affected players to get butt hurt over it, so when they're asked point-blank questions by the media, they deny they did so or say that inquiries were made but were not taken seriously.

I find it difficult to believe that you don't realize this, so i'm not sure why you're acting incredulous at my suggestion that Keim could be quietly shopping Rosen to judge how other teams perceive his value, yet he could be prepared to keep Rosen, and if that happens, he would prefer for Rosen not to think that he doesn't have the full support of the team. Rumors could be out there, but as long as he can plausibly deny them, Rosen might have his suspicions, but couldn't be sure of the truth.

...dbs

I actually don't believe this is true, and I think that the Cards have been pretty forthright about telling people who are listening what they're going to do (when it's within their capacity — it is impossible to project who's available when picking in the 20s.

IMO, when you have the power to make decisions, there's very little reason to lie, and doing so makes you look like an A-hole. The misinformation that comes out is usually from mid-level scouts who don't know and can't decide but are trying to cultivate a resource like Schefter.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Well, OF course THE Cardinals don't HAVE to DO anything. They don't HAVE to EVEN select A player at #1. But THAT would BE idiotic, just LIKE keeping Rosen ON the roster AFTER selecting Murray.

Fair enough.

Obviously I do not agree it is idiotic. It is bucking the trend, sure, but at that point, are we really caring about "trends" when the team has already shattered a bunch of NFL "rules", so to speak.

- Fire a 1 year coach.
- Hire a head coach with no experience in the NFL, and a sub-.500 record
- Draft a QB in the first round the year after drafting a QB in the first round.

But, keeping those two QB's is where some draw the line ?

If the team is going to be crazy, might as well be bat ---- crazy.

 

[dscher]

Nonsense. The ratings will be there regardless of how the Cards handle this thing. You actually think if the Cards announced today they are taking Murray or whomever, fewer people would watch?

Do you think it would help ratings?

 

[daves]

I actually don't believe this is true, and I think that the Cards have been pretty forthright about telling people who are listening what they're going to do (when it's within their capacity — it is impossible to project who's available when picking in the 20s.

IMO, when you have the power to make decisions, there's very little reason to lie, and doing so makes you look like an A-hole. The misinformation that comes out is usually from mid-level scouts who don't know and can't decide but are trying to cultivate a resource like Schefter.

Call it "spin" if you want... but when you are in a position to negotiate deals that may or may not be consummated, you don't want your negotiations to become public. If the Cards end up keeping Rosen, Keim will NOT admit that they tried to trade him, but couldn't get enough interest, and now they're stuck with him. He COULD say that other teams inquired but the Cardinals weren't interested. If asked point blank whether they tried to trade him avoiding a lie by saying, "No comment" is inviting a disastrous relationship with Rosen going forward. He has to spin / lie / whatever you want to call it.

The only GM who doesn't have to lie is Belichick, because he never comments on anything, so everyone expects it and no one reads anything into it. By being more forthcoming most of the time, one loses the option to say, "No comment" regarding a controversial issue without having it interpreted in the worst possible light.

I really can't believe this is a controversial position.

...dbs

 

[slanidrac16]

Every corporation looks at their employees as collateral damage. If they decide to lay off 8000 workers that’s what they will do. They don’t have to justify it. They will say all the right things and spew their corporate regrets. If anyone called the cards asking about Rosen don’t think for one minute they wouldn’t listen. I believe they would try to do everything possible to insulate josh from those conversations and they probably have. Nobody is untouchable and there is a price on every players head.

 

[GuernseyCard]

This may come as a shock to you, but lying is part of every GM's job. The public is not entitled to know the details of every discussion a GM has with other GMs. GMs explore trade possibilities all the time, but they don't want the affected players to get butt hurt over it, so when they're asked point-blank questions by the media, they deny they did so or say that inquiries were made but were not taken seriously.

I find it difficult to believe that you don't realize this, so i'm not sure why you're acting incredulous at my suggestion that Keim could be quietly shopping Rosen to judge how other teams perceive his value, yet he could be prepared to keep Rosen, and if that happens, he would prefer for Rosen not to think that he doesn't have the full support of the team. Rumors could be out there, but as long as he can plausibly deny them, Rosen might have his suspicions, but couldn't be sure of the truth.

...dbs

You have never had to 'manage' plausible deniability, evidently. It's not an elaborately constructed lie; rather - it's controlled exchanges that ensures that the principle could go into a court without fear of perjury.

There's a a difference between Keim receiving calls and making calls. I'm fairly certain that in defence of his personal and professional credibility, he wouldn't be making calls regarding Rosen until they've decided that KM is the pick. His first shopping call will be the 'tell' and it won't be long before it's out.

 

[WildBB]

If the Cards really intend to take Murray, why not announce it? By rule they could even talk contract. I just don’t understand what advantage is gained by playing coy this late in the game. If any other team wanted Murray they’d have to put up or pass. Also team’s would get serious about acquiring Rosen. I don’t think waiting until draft day will greatly increase urgency as everyone has their board done and all their scouting reports in and synthesized. It time for the Cards to assess the real value of what they hold. I suppose you could argue that a late first round team, like the Pats, might get more interest if their desired QB selection is gone. On the other hand I wouldn’t make a deal yet for #33. Depending on who is available after round 1 depletes the pool they might get an excellent offer for that pick. With the first 3 round being so strong, they could get a 2 & a 3 for that pick. Considering the depth the Cards need to build I’d seriously consider that move.

Cardinals will get numberous offers for the #33 pick, many more than they'll receive for the #1, imo.

Also the #1 could hinge on a strong offer for Rosen from an AFC team. I feel that the Cardinals definitely WILL NOT move Rosen to an NFC team. IF the offer for Rosen is a strong one, then their mind could be made up for them. These are the "Cards" their playing, imo.

 

[GatorAZ]

Cardinals will get numberous offers for the #33 pick, many more than they'll receive for the #1, imo.

Also the #1 could hinge on a strong offer for Rosen from an AFC team. I feel that the Cardinals definitely WILL NOT move Rosen to an NFC team. IF the offer for Rosen is a strong one, then their mind could be made up for them. These are the "Cards" their playing, imo.

Two years ago Tennessee traded back from #33 for #40 and two other picks. As soon as the first rd ends the Cards will be getting calls all night/day for that pick.

 

[Buckybird]

Nonsense. The ratings will be there regardless of how the Cards handle this thing. You actually think if the Cards announced today they are taking Murray or whomever, fewer people would watch?

I’m telling you what the nfl thinks!!! Remember when most of the #1 picks were already signed sealed & delivered before draft day? There’s a reason the NFL wants it hush hush

 

[Cardiac]

I’m telling you what the nfl thinks!!! Remember when most of the #1 picks were already signed sealed & delivered before draft day? There’s a reason the NFL wants it hush hush

People will tune in to see who the 2nd overall pick is and the 3rd and etc. Plus I don't remember when most #1 picks were already signed, I know it happened once maybe twice but that's all I recall.

 

[BigRedRage]

Well, OF course THE Cardinals don't HAVE to DO anything. They don't HAVE to EVEN select A player at #1. But THAT would BE idiotic, just LIKE keeping Rosen ON the roster AFTER selecting Murray.

I don't understand your choices for capital words

Like....reading this and changing annunciation for the capital word....makes it really weird.

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

 

[Ohcrap75]

I don't understand your choices for capital words

Like....reading this and changing annunciation for the capital word....makes it really weird.

Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk

Try reading out loud without smiling.