I’m Not the Only One Who Thinks They’re Tanking

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I'm not hating on anybody I'm pointing out the obvious, I think this horse has been beat dead enough, time to move on, I'm tired of the tanking talk.
Don’t read it. It’s your prerogative. I mean, the thread literally had the word “tank” in the title. Why even open it if you’re tired of the tanking talk? Just like it seems to be your prerogative to tell other people what they should or should not post. Okay thread cop.
 
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Ouchie-Z-Clown

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The last five roster spots are usually in constant churn on every team in the NFL, regardless of their current interests in winning football games. There are 90 players that come to camp; 52 make the final roster. If the Cards are more interested in keeping UDFA Daniel Arias over Andre Baccellia, no one will care.

The tank is really exemplified by:

1) Letting both Byron Murphy and Zach Allen leave and replacing them with a third-round pick who played seven games for Syracuse and cap flexibility, respectively.

2) Releasing your All Pro wide receiver and replacing him with a second-round pick from Stanford who played six games last season and 14 in the past three seasons(!!!!!!!!). His breakout season occurred before anyone knew what COVID 19 was.

3) Deciding that you don't need a center with more than a handful of games starting experience in camp.

4) Looking at your depth chart and deciding you're very fine having Leki Fotu and Rashard Lawrence as your likely starters at DT.

5) Having less than $41 million in guaranteed salary on the books in 2024.
To be fair they replaced hop with pascal. Every other point is spot on.
 

kerouac9

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Exactly. Essentially just opting out of free agency for a year is just insanity to me. I get the tear down, I get the accumulation of picks, but I don’t get passing on an entire class of players that may help in the subsequent seasons.
The thing I've been thinking about is how disasterous and toxic Monti must have viewed the entire front office, scouting staff, and pro personnel department. I'm surprised we're not hearing more departures, but I'm not checking the Cards' website staff pages with any regularity, either.

Monti doesn't trust the pro personnel guys, so he passes on free agency almost altogether and grabs whatever replacement-level veterans are willing to sing for no guarantees.

Monti doesn't trust his college scouts so he takes meaningful prospects based on Senior Bowl performances.

It's possible we see a makeover of the front office in the coming weeks and months and a more aggressive player acquisition posture in 2024. But, man, are we gonna suck this year.
 

kerouac9

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To be fair they replaced hop with pascal. Every other point is spot on.
I think they replaced Green with Pascal. I guess you can say they replaced Hop and Green with Pascal and Wilson and it makes the same point that we're very very bad at wide receiver right now.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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The concern is that you're not going to rebuild through the draft alone - at best, you may get one or two guys every year that contribute right away, and maybe a couple later on.

Ignoring all other avenues of improvement seems to be a rather narrow opportunity for success.
Particularly when the hit rate of draft picks is relatively low. If we even hit on 3 players in this past draft that’s still only . . . 3 players. At that rate it will take us forever to be relevant again. That’s why free agency is important. And we passed in it.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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All 3 of these players aren't likely to be on the roster after this year. Beachum is a one year deal, Connor will likely be cut after this year. The same goes with Ertz, although could stay due to his Eagles connection.
So they aren’t part of the rebuild.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I think they replaced Green with Pascal. I guess you can say they replaced Hop and Green with Pascal and Wilson and it makes the same point that we're very very bad at wide receiver right now.
Yes, I wasn’t really trying to argue we got better.
 

Dayman

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Exactly. Essentially just opting out of free agency for a year is just insanity to me. I get the tear down, I get the accumulation of picks, but I don’t get passing on an entire class of players that may help in the subsequent seasons.
Keim essentially passed on free agency last year, too. It is almost like Michael has been tighter with his money since he gave out those huge extensions to Keim and Kliff.
 

kerouac9

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Keim essentially passed on free agency last year, too. It is almost like Michael has been tighter with his money since he gave out those huge extensions to Keim and Kliff.
Let's chill out about how much money was given to Keim and Kliff. We probably spent more on Jordan Phillips than we will for buying out these two jamokes.
 

ASUCHRIS

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Yes, It is of mine and many others opinion that Byron Murphy and Zach Allen are mediocre.
Mediocre would be a huge improvement on where we are! Allen would be far and away our best defensive lineman, and Murphy our top corner. Who cares about those positions though, not really important.

I forgot though, we're going to add 20 top tier FA's next year, and every rookie will hit, so we good.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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Keim essentially passed on free agency last year, too. It is almost like Michael has been tighter with his money since he gave out those huge extensions to Keim and Kliff.
And we collectively burly beat him up too. But now people want to give monti a pass bc, reasons.
 

Billy Bob

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Don’t read it. It’s your prerogative. I mean, the thread literally had the word “tank” in the title. Why even open it if you’re tired of the tanking talk? Just like it seems to be your prerogative to tell other people what they should or should not post. Okay thread cop.
Because I read everything Harry writes and if You and Stout both feel I just hate on people, why respond to me? If the mods feel that way too, I'll just move on!
 

dreamcastrocks

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And that just makes the monti plan even murkier and less cohesive.
Well yes and no. This team is in a flux. We have to know what we are getting Kyler before it won't be.
I don't mind them getting rid of D-Hop if it means he decided to healthy scratch himself.
 

AZ Native

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It seems like the best thing for everyone would be for Kyler to sit out the entire year. We roll out Tune for the year and get the #1 pick. Murray gets a full year to rehab his injury, and can't damage his value further by playing on this garbage team.

We trade Kyler during the draft for a late 1st rounder and move on.
Kyler's cap hit is 16 million this year and almost 52 million in 2024, Who wants to take on that contract?
 

gmabel830

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Kyler's cap hit is 16 million this year and almost 52 million in 2024, Who wants to take on that contract?
Cap hit is not the same as cash paid.. his new team is only on the hook for new money paid to him in their cap. The 52 million cap hit the Cards have for him in 2024 accounts for money we already paid him in the past (e.g., singing bonus allocated out in the contract). Money we already paid to him stays on our cap as dead money.

Teams who take on his contract in 2024 will have the following cap hits, based on pure yearly cash due:

2024 - 38.85 M
2025 - 32.6 M
2026 - 42.5 M
2027 - 36.3 M
2028 - 46.35 M (note - there's an out after 2027 with no dead cap money left)

It's probably even more nuanced than that in reality, but it's closer to this than the cap hit the cards have (52M) in 2024.
 
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GatorAZ

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I would’ve brought back Murphy but not as down on Monti’s moves as most seem to be. The state of the roster along with Kyler’s injury created the perfect storm to bottom out next season. For all the water heads who still think tanking means throwing games it doesn’t. Tanking is creating a roster that can’t win in the short term which we are 100% doing. Embrace thy Suck.
 

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Cap hit is not the same as salary.. his new team is only on the hook for new money paid to him in their cap. Money we already paid to him stays on our cap as dead money.
I realize that is our cap hit. I was pointing out some want to sit him the entire year when his cap hit is only 16 million. So does anyone know what we what it would cost us to trade him in 2024 and what the new team would take on?
 

gmabel830

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I realize that is our cap hit. I was pointing out some want to sit him the entire year when his cap hit is only 16 million. So does anyone know what we what it would cost us to trade him in 2024 and what the new team would take on?
If we trade him after this season, I think net impact to the salary cap would be the total dead cap (81.521 M in 2024) minus the yearly cash to be paid in 2024 (38.850 M). So it would be about $43M in dead cap for the Cards to trade him - I am not 100% on that though. Keep in mind the dead cap money could be spread over 2 years too. For the new team, since there's no signing bonus money left to account for, it would just be the payment of the base salary + game/workout bonuses paid that season, so the cap hit would be the yearly cash paid to him over those seasons (which I detailed above).
 
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JohnnyCakes

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Mediocre would be a huge improvement on where we are! Allen would be far and away our best defensive lineman, and Murphy our top corner. Who cares about those positions though, not really important.

I forgot though, we're going to add 20 top tier FA's next year, and every rookie will hit, so we good.
well thats my whole point, instead of investing long term in mediocrity at a couple positions, you need to tear it down and start over and upgrade starters and depth. its going to take a few years. Kyler will not be on the cardinals next playoff team
 

phillycard

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still amazing to me how re-signing Zach Allen would have changed the entire narrative
Crazy thing is it would have. Not that Zach or Byron would have made a huge difference in the outcome of this miserable season we're set to endure, but the sign of a team that's competing (or at least trying to) is retaining talent, signing free agents that make you better, and drafting well. Well, 1 out for 3 is pretty bad, and left me feeling like a kid that just found out he's getting left back in school.
 
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