I Hate Our Ol

[LVCARDFREAK]

Well said.

+

except you fail to realize Edge is on pace for 1100 yards this season.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Absolutely correct. If DG would ever fix the problem with the OL we would all quit bringing up that fiasco. And that is what DG created.

Clement plays for the Jets and cant snif the field at all. Kendell plays for the Jets and under no circumstance would play in AZ any longer. Just a few details you might want to consider.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Hmmm Step or Kendall, Oliver Ross or Shelton...

Good lord, I really can't believe we're still having this conversation. Let's all remember the good times of Kendall and Clement, who spearheaded the worst offense in the NFL in 2003 and are currently the driving forces behind a running game in New York that has 100 yards...in two games. And good old LJ Shelton, he who according to this board was worthy of a 1st round draft selection via trade a couple seasons ago. Well, the Dolphins are a worse running team than even the Jets despite having the NFL ROY runner-up in the backfield and are only behind the Raiders in the NFL in sacks allowed. And ASFN fan favorite LJ just spent Sunday afternoon getting worked by some guy named Ryan Denney to the tune of three sacks just a week after Joey Porter lit him up for a couple more. Man, how could we possibly get rid of these guys?

 

[ajcardfan]

Good lord, I really can't believe we're still having this conversation. Let's all remember the good times of Kendall and Clement, who spearheaded the worst offense in the NFL in 2003 and are currently the driving forces behind a running game in New York that has 100 yards...in two games. And good old LJ Shelton, he who according to this board was worthy of a 1st round draft selection via trade a couple seasons ago. Well, the Dolphins are a worse running team than even the Jets despite having the NFL ROY runner-up in the backfield and are only behind the Raiders in the NFL in sacks allowed. And ASFN fan favorite LJ just spent Sunday afternoon getting worked by some guy named Ryan Denney to the tune of three sacks just a week after Joey Porter lit him up for a couple more. Man, how could we possibly get rid of these guys?

You and your facts! Ruining all the fun.

 

[Denny Green Fan]

I bet Matt fears for his life.

 

[JeffGollin]

Good lord, I really can't believe we're still having this conversation. Let's all remember the good times of Kendall and Clement, who spearheaded the worst offense in ...And good old LJ Shelton...

To rephrase the above and follow thru on its logic: "Today's O-line shouldn't be trashed because the Kendall-Clement-Shelton O-line was even worse.

Actually, whether or not that line was worse than our current cast of characters is open to debate. Let us not forget that, with essentially the same starters, our running attack averaged 71 yards per game last year (even worse than the James Dexter/Joe Wolf "78 Club.")

The reason we are having this conversation is because many of us believe this team is only an offensive line away from making the playoffs this year.

 

[red desert]

Clement plays for the Jets and cant snif the field at all. Kendell plays for the Jets and under no circumstance would play in AZ any longer. Just a few details you might want to consider.

Lordy lord.

Okay. I've considered the. Anyway...

 

[BigRedFan]

Its bad when you think of the year Emmitt got 1000 yards as the good ole days of the O-line, LOL.

Well said.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

To rephrase the above and follow thru on its logic: "Today's O-line shouldn't be trashed because the Kendall-Clement-Shelton O-line was even worse.

year.

People are missing my point, this Line IS worse IMO... We just have MORE talent at the skill positions than we did then.

 

[ajcardfan]

To rephrase the above and follow thru on its logic: "Today's O-line shouldn't be trashed because the Kendall-Clement-Shelton O-line was even worse.

Nah, nobody is saying that. Well, at least almost nobody. What is ridiculous, at least to me, is continued moaning about players who have been gone for TWO years. Even sillier is the fact that the line was just as horribly bad when those guys were here. It was the number one gripe of the fans then, so nothing has changed.


It's like the Israelites griping to Moses about how good they had it back in Egypt!

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

To rephrase the above and follow thru on its logic: "Today's O-line shouldn't be trashed because the Kendall-Clement-Shelton O-line was even worse.

No. My point was that although the current Cardinals line blows, DG was right in blowing up that past disgrace as they were just as terrible. Just like DG or whoever is coaching next year will be justified in getting rid of these bums.

 

[WildBB]

First, Wells can't play guard. Then, he struggles at RT.Now, you want to play him at the toughest postion on the OL. I don't see that logic. LD is the best LT on the team and one of the better one's in the league. People who say otherwise don't know what they are talking about. He gets some false starts but,if you put someone else out there,they'll get false starts and also get Warner broke in half by a blind side sack. Is Davis an elite LT? No, but he's in the next level.

Yeah I'm frustrated by his (Davis') false starts and getting beat fairly consistently by speed rushers and missing blitzes. But he is probobly the real only option out there. Lutui at LG and Wells at C could work. Give it a shot. We need to get the running game rolling - AND SOON.

 

[JeffGollin]

Yeah I'm frustrated by his (Davis') false starts...But he is probobly the real only option out there. Lutui at LG and Wells at C could work. Give it a shot. We need to get the running game rolling - AND SOON.

Question is - Is the problem the guys we've got? Or is it what they don't know or haven't learned to do?

If it's the guys - it's too late this season to do much about that - and the more you switch linemen around, the more confused they get.

If it's what they don't know or haven't learned to do - those things are correctable if (a) the coaches get on the stick and (b) the guys are committed to learning.

 

[CronosCard]

"..And in this corner.."

Jeff, I think partial blame lies with the players, they are professionals, but I think the majority of the blame should go on DENNIS GREEN

 

[Big T]

If I were making the calls, I'd start with

Wells at LT
Big at LG
Leckey at C
Elton or Milford Brown at RG
experiment at RT with whoever is left.

 

[Big T]

and scrap this stupid "zone" blocking stuff.

I could spend ages delineating why.

 

[Pariah]

and scrap this stupid "zone" blocking stuff.

I could spend ages delineating why.

Please try to condense it into a single post and I'm listening. Zone blocking, when executed correctly, very effective. Our problem is we're trying to blend it with power blocking.

 

[BACH]

Please try to condense it into a single post and I'm listening. Zone blocking, when executed correctly, very effective. Our problem is we're trying to blend it with power blocking.

That goes for 28 teams in the league.. Atlanta, Houston and Denver are the only pure zone-blocking schemes and Pittsburgh (not sure about San Diego) is the only pure power scheme.

From what I can tell Loney is trying to impliment a scheme most similar to KC's. It works for them.

 

[Big T]

That goes for 28 teams in the league.. Atlanta, Houston and Denver are the only pure zone-blocking schemes and Pittsburgh (not sure about San Diego) is the only pure power scheme.

From what I can tell Loney is trying to impliment a scheme most similar to KC's. It works for them.

And that would be??????

 

[Duckjake]

And that would be??????

Three guys pancake their man and the other two whiff. The Cards are very good at it.

Oh he meant Kansas City not Kansas College. Sorry.

 

[joko4]

Here's my two cents. Leonard Davis would be the last person I would sign next
year, and the reason is he's not a leader and he plays with no pride what so ever. Yah,yah oh he would be a great guard, for get it. LD will never sign with
the Cards because he wants LT money. Just like Corey Chavous, he'll leave saying he'll only play LT and then end up playing OG. LT is a professional because he's being paid. Besides that, he's slow, doesn't care about a team concept, again, no leadership ability and above all else plays with no passion. LD's price in free agency will be very high, take that money and go out and find some smart, overacheiving fast footed stud that also plays with passion and pride. LT is your #1 problem with the OL.

 

[Duckjake]

LD's price in free agency will be very high, take that money and go out and find some smart, overacheiving fast footed stud that also plays with passion and pride.

And that would be who?

I thing LDavis will be retained because the Cards need to spend money on somebody, anybody.

 

[BACH]

And that would be??????

A blocking scheme is more or less determined by the play of the uncovered players.

Every scheme in the NFL today is basicly some sort of zone-blocking, but the old 49'ers/Denver/Atlanta scheme is the scheme that gets the definition of "Zone-bocking". In that scheme an uncovered man stays on the line to and doubleteams the pivital D-Lineman, thus moving the entire LOS backwards and creating trafic at the next level. That forces the LBs to react or they will get caught in traffic, but when they react there's a strong possibility of opening a cut-back lane for the RB.

In a pure power scheme an uncovered man will release directly to the next level leaving the remaining O-linemen 1-on-1 with the DL, but also taking out the LBs out of the play.

Our scheme (as I see it) is similar to what the Chiefs are running. It's zone-block in the sense that every man blocks to the play-side. The entire line is simply moving in one direction with one exception, because the uncovered man is often pulling (typical back-side G) into the hole. When the entire O-Line is moving in one direction there's a good chance that there will open a cutback-lane in the middle, but the primary block is the play-side tackle sealing the outside of the line, so the pulling G and RB get room to get up field.

This is only a very generel description, because often the TE is sealing the line with the T kicking out the DE or moving up field AND the pulling player isn't always the uncovered man.

IMO there are three major problems with the run-game right now.

1. Our current RTs aren't capable of sealing the outside. The strech play is clearly better on the left side because Big can make that seal.

2. Wells and Step often misses their blocks when "zone-blocking" (moving the entire line to the play-side). That takes away the cut-back lane and often results in Edge getting caught from behind. I blame Step for this because in a scheme like this the backside G clearly has the most difficult block and the C HAS to help by staying close to the backside G. Brown is just able to compensate better for this because he's more powerful and able to stay on his man, but have also had problem with making that block. Wells (and to some extent Brown) is IMO being sold by Step, but of course I can't know that for sure without knowing the exact line-call/block.

3. Bergen and Pope are terrible blockers.

BTW. Basing my critique on the 49'ers game. Haven't had the time to go over the OL vs. the Seahawks.

On Davis... Big makes big mistakes, and that overshadows his regular play, because he is a very good player. The number of false starts has to go down, but IMO the problem will somewhat solve itself. Davis struggles with false starts because we're a pass first team and he's perhaps too big to play LT. When the offense get more balance Davis should settle down AND when Leinart takes over then Davis becomes the play-side OT instead of the blindside OT.

 

[Duckjake]

Bach, one blocking scheme I've seen used by other teams on running plays involves the entire line moving at a slight angle to one side or the other. The blockers try to maintain a straight line and attempt to push the los back and over to that side. Almost like setting a screen in basketball.

Do you know what that blocking scheme is?

I don't think I've ever seen the Cards try to do this. Our guys always seem to be going in several different directions at once.

I also don't see much drive blocking. Our guys seem to straighten up at the snap like they are pass blocking on every play.

 

[BACH]

Bach, one blocking scheme I've seen used by other teams on running plays involves the entire line moving at a slight angle to one side or the other. The blockers try to maintain a straight line and attempt to push the los back and over to that side. Almost like setting a screen in basketball.

Do you know what that blocking scheme is?

I don't think I've ever seen the Cards try to do this. Our guys always seem to be going in several different directions at once.

Huh???

Watch the game again.That's exactly what they're trying to do on most plays. It might not look like that in the hole because of a pull, but look at the rest of the line instead of just the hole.