I just want to get a feel for the Board. McCown or King

[Scott MS]

Just for the record, according to this web page, McCown scored 30 on the Wonderlic, Shaun King scored 25 . . .

http://www.unc.edu/~mirabile/Wonderlic.htm

 

[Redsz]

the whole this is Josh's 6th start is an excuse plain and simple. He's been in the league for THREE years now - watching and learning - had on the job training last year and then was the full blown starter all off-season - under the tutelage of one the best offensive minds in football - he shouldn't look like a rookie - because, well , to put it blubtly - HE ISN'T ONE. And to me - it looks like his confidence was shot anyway - this team needs a win in the worst way - I'd play King next week and see if it's the O-line or Josh . . .it can't hurt.

Playing and sitting on sidelines are two completly different things all together. Any QB will tell you that. You will learn more in one game than you will sitting on the sidelines for a couple of months watching.

He isn't a rookie in terms of how long he has been in the NFL, but in terms of his development.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I'm not laying all the blame at Josh's feet - there is no doubt that the right side of the O-line sucks about as bad as any porn star's ever sucked before - not doubt . . . I also believe that Emmitt - regardless of his warrior heart - just ain't got it - but McClown is just as much to blame as those other two factors. Even when he has his opportunities to make plays with his legs, he cowers back - like on that 3rd and two near mid field when he *****-footed his way towards the first down marker and got nailed - sure they gave us a great spot, only to be overturned by a proper review of the call - but I have yet to see this kid make ONE BIG PLAY ALL YEAR - that is a problem. Maybe, just maybe, there was a reason he couldn't hack in the big leagues in college football and maybe, just maybe a kid with all his natural talent is a third round PROJECT taken by one of the most god awful scouting and coahcing departments in the league . . . everyone sucks on offense right now - and to think Josh isn't part of the problem is just foolishness.

Oh I agree that Josh cost us the game. However I think he showed enough to prove that he can be a QB in this league. Listen, he was able to drive us down to inside Atlanta's redzone several times. When he got in the Redzone mistakes happened. Yes they were Josh's fault. However it was because he was trying to make to much out of nothing. That is the what happens when you start an inexperienced QB. It's called growing pains. Yes he should have gotten rid of the ball sooner and protected the ball better.

However lets not forget that he had the cards stacked against him in the redzone. With zero threat of running the ball its next to impossible to score in the redzone. Especially when the the other team can get pressure with just their front 4. That put Josh in a bad position from the get go.

Now the key is will he learn from his mistakes. If next week he gets sacked 5 times and fumbles in the Red Zone then yes bench him and start King. However I think its way to early to throw in the towel on Josh.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cmon dude, you are above this.

Cubby - I was right there with you on McCown in the preseason but good lord has he looked bad. As far as me being above calling him McClown - I call 'em as I see them - and right now that's what he looks like out there - you're also talking to the same person who, along with Ouchie during the last years of the Tobin era tried to get Three Cardinal authentic jerseys with our own special names on the back - #34 - Sucka (rhymes with vicka) - 90 - Wadsworthofcrap and #18 Sacca****(worse word for Poop) - It's just my sense of humor . . . in terms of those beauts, McClown's getting off easy.

And don't get me wrong folks - I would happy as a pig in crap if McCown does somehow turn it around and rises above his 3rd round draft status, and his inability to play at the highest level of collegiate football or even get us in the endzone once in a while, simply because it would mean that would be one less position we would have to fillnext offseason - I'll just be shocked if it does - nowhere in this guy's entire football playing career, has his cream risen to the top - why should we think that would change all of a sudden?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Just for the record, according to this web page, McCown scored 30 on the Wonderlic, Shaun King scored 25 . . .

http://www.unc.edu/~mirabile/Wonderlic.htm

You know you have lost when you hang your hat on this.

Career winning percentage. McCown 16.6% King: 66.6%

You know what...nevermind the Wonderlic test is clearly the true indicator of a QB.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Cubby - I was right there with you on McCown in the preseason but good lord has he looked bad. As far as me being above calling him McClown - I call 'em as I see them - and right now that's what he looks like out there - you're also talking to the same person who, along with Ouchie during the last years of the Tobin era tried to get Three Cardinal authentic jerseys with our own special names on the back - #34 - Sucka (rhymes with vicka) - 90 - Wadsworthofcrap and #18 Sacca****(worse word for Poop) - It's just my sense of humor . . . in terms of those beauts, McClown's getting off easy.

And don't get me wrong folks - I would happy as a pig in crap if McCown does somehow turn it around and rises above his 3rd round draft status, and his inability to play at the highest level of collegiate football or even get us in the endzone once in a while, simply because it would mean that would be one less position we would have to fillnext offseason - I'll just be shocked if it does - nowhere in this guy's entire football playing career, has his cream risen to the top - why should we think that would change all of a sudden?

Exactly...who doesn't call Wadsworth Wadsworthless

Or Buddy Cryan...

It is just the way people make light of a poor situation. Laughter always helps

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Let me close by saying I was totally opposed to King as a QB originally because he is merely a caretaker QB.

I really thought we needed a gunslinger to stay in games. King would be best in games where a defense made all the plays like in Tampa.

I am shocked that the Cardinals have basically become copies of King's first year as a starter.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You know what after just having watched Josh CRYING on the Arizona Sports Report - he's completely lost me - suck it up baby - you freaking blew the game - you don't have to look like as big of a bitch off the field as you did on it - I AM LIVID. Josh is NOT leader.

 

[Redsz]

Redz,

You keep pointing at his completion percentage.

You want to know what it is for the season? With this "incredible play"? 53%

Josh's six career starts...he is a third year player. Want to know what say Chad Pennington's first six starts were after sitting two years JUST LIKE McCown?

How about 1400 yards and 9 TDs to 3 Ints. He also rang in at around a 70% completion ratio.

Yeah, I 'keep pointing out his completion percentage'. I mentioned it once, for one game.

QB's develop at different rates. To say that there is one bench mark or a definative amount of time for a QB to 'get it' would be wrong. Some take one year others five.

Making comparisons are useless. Was Pennington beyond this line? Did he have no running game? Was his best WR out? Too many variables.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah, I 'keep pointing out his completion percentage'. I mentioned it once, for one game.

QB's develop at different rates. To say that there is one bench mark or a definative amount of time for a QB to 'get it' would be wrong. Some take one year others five.

Making comparisons are useless. Was Pennington beyond this line? Did he have no running game? Was his best WR out? Too many variables.

all I remember was that the Jets were a wretched ball club during the season before they put Pennington in and he INSTANTLY elevated their offense.

 

[This_Guy]

Some take one year others five.

??? So let's assume that McCown is a franchise QB, but it will take him 5 years to develop....does that mean the Cards should just suck until 2007 before fans can expect to win?

What if it takes 8 years for him to develop? He sure doesn't look anywhere close right now.

 

[AZCB34]

You know what after just having watched Josh CRYING on the Arizona Sports Report - he's completely lost me - suck it up baby - you freaking blew the game - you don't have to look like as big of a bitch off the field as you did on it - I AM LIVID. Josh is NOT leader.

He was crying? Oooh, Josh, not a good way to start to pick yourself off the mat. King will start next week.

 

[This_Guy]

all I remember was that the Jets were a wretched ball club during the season before they put Pennington in and he INSTANTLY elevated their offense.

That will happen when King goes in. It will be a dramatic difference.

That was evident on the one drive he got to throw the ball.

 

[Scott MS]

You know what after just having watched Josh CRYING on the Arizona Sports Report - he's completely lost me - suck it up baby - you freaking blew the game - you don't have to look like as big of a bitch off the field as you did on it - I AM LIVID. Josh is NOT leader.

A little harsh. It was a an emotional loss for the team. They fought hard, but yeah, the offense needs to put up more points. McCown needs to improve, but how about the Cardinals rushing attack?

Why did we even try any rushes in the 2nd half? They were wastes of valuable passing opportunities.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

You know what after just having watched Josh CRYING on the Arizona Sports Report - he's completely lost me - suck it up baby - you freaking blew the game - you don't have to look like as big of a bitch off the field as you did on it - I AM LIVID. Josh is NOT leader.

You're right, but kicking the guy while he's down is pretty weak. As far as I can tell, McCown is a humble family man who's emotion got the best of him, probably because he has come to the realization that the opportunity provided to him to financially secure the future of his family was lost with that last fumble. No need to pile on the guy, we're not Eagles fans.

 

[ajcardfan]

A little harsh. It was a an emotional loss for the team. They fought hard, but yeah, the offense needs to put up more points. McCown needs to improve, but how about the Cardinals rushing attack?

Why did we even try any rushes in the 2nd half? They were wastes of valuable passing opportunities.

You can't just toss the run game completely aside with the pass protection we have. We made a little bit of yardage on the ground in the second half, and even that much helped our passing game out.

 

[Scott MS]

By the way, it was Green who anointed Josh King of the Cardinals Quarterbacking duties. It was also Green and his staff who made him starter after pre-season and had him start today.

I think Josh needs to still develop in some areas, but don't attack him personally. He was put in this position by the Cardinals organization and he's doing the best he can.

Perhaps the organization will select King to start next week. Who knows, but I know Green will make the decision himself.

 

[Redsz]

All I remember is that he had Curtis Martin rushing for 1,000 yds year after year. So the Jet's can't have been as bad on the offence side of the ball.

Your last comment about Josh is WAY off base. He is a 'bitch' because he cried? There is no need to attack him like that. Go take a breather, you are taking this way to seriously.

 

[Cheesebeef]

You're right, but kicking the guy while he's down is pretty weak. As far as I can tell, McCown is a humble family man who's emotion got the best of him, probably because he has come to the realization that the opportunity provided to him to financially secure the future of his family was lost with that last fumble. No need to pile on the guy, we're not Eagles fans.

it just pissed me off that's all and here is where I vent. Bottom line is I don't want my quarterback crying after this type of game - makes me cringe just like I did when the Cardinals made Emmitt cry last year - although in that case - I blamed the team - rather than the player. Was it a little harsh - yes - but he made me sick to my stomach today and that was just the final kick in the teeth.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

All I remember is that he had Curtis Martin rushing for 1,000 yds year after year. So the Jet's can't have been as bad on the offence side of the ball.

Your last comment about Josh is WAY off base. He is a 'bitch' because he cried? There is no need to attack him like that. Go take a breather, you are taking this way to seriously.

Martin's rushing prior to Pennington starting:

Game 1: 6 yards
Game 2: 5 yards
Game 3: 43 yards
Game 4: 44 yards

Pennington Starts...

Game 5: 119 yards
Game 6: 70 yards
Game 7: 65 yards
Game 8: 37 yards
Game 9: 74 yards

Hardly dominating and really pathetic until they had a legitimate QB in there. Why? Because you can't blitz a legit QB on every down.

 

[conraddobler]

Cubby - I was right there with you on McCown in the preseason but good lord has he looked bad. As far as me being above calling him McClown - I call 'em as I see them - and right now that's what he looks like out there - you're also talking to the same person who, along with Ouchie during the last years of the Tobin era tried to get Three Cardinal authentic jerseys with our own special names on the back - #34 - Sucka (rhymes with vicka) - 90 - Wadsworthofcrap and #18 Sacca****(worse word for Poop) - It's just my sense of humor . . . in terms of those beauts, McClown's getting off easy.

And don't get me wrong folks - I would happy as a pig in crap if McCown does somehow turn it around and rises above his 3rd round draft status, and his inability to play at the highest level of collegiate football or even get us in the endzone once in a while, simply because it would mean that would be one less position we would have to fillnext offseason - I'll just be shocked if it does - nowhere in this guy's entire football playing career, has his cream risen to the top - why should we think that would change all of a sudden?

Making fun of a QB's name that has six career starts and those six career starts happen to be for the Cardinals possibly the worst team in about 10
years without his best wr in three of those, well dude I just don't agree, not that you care, but I still don't agree it's fair.

He hasn't broken anything, he hasn't helped much either but and this is huge, he is new to starting and the offense and his line stinks.

King, if he starts will look great against the 49ers because everyone else does but that's real fair considering Josh got the Patriots and Atlanta. Neither team has lost. The easiest team he played was in their house in St.louis

I am not making excuses and I understand him being benched but to belittle the guy now is way premature IMHO. Let they guy either play his way out of it or just go away but lord give the dude at least 6 games before you pronounce him dead.

I want to see a few linemen lose their jobs before I kill off Josh. He's a good kid that hates losing and crying dosen't make you a loser, losing does. He feels bad and he should but he will either suck it up or he won't make it. I just want him to get a real shot behind a line that is at least NFL bottom 5 quality not the olay brothers.

 

[Redsz]

Chris,

So can you explain to me the 7 or so previous 1,000 yd seasons?

 

[AZCB34]

it just pissed me off that's all and here is where I vent. Bottom line is I don't want my quarterback crying after this type of game - makes me cringe just like I did when the Cardinals made Emmitt cry last year - although in that case - I blamed the team - rather than the player. Was it a little harsh - yes - but he made me sick to my stomach today and that was just the final kick in the teeth.

Yeah...here is the problem with him crying on the ASR. All his teammates and coaches will see it at some point and it is going to be damn near impossible for him to make this HIS team after that. He has to earn his teammates respect and the crying will not help that in any way. Sadly, he needs to put the stuff aside and wait until he gets home with the wife and then he can cry all night but doing it like that is going to really hurt his chances of maybe ever getting anotehr shot...even with another team.

 

[green machine]

Yeah...here is the problem with him crying on the ASR. All his teammates and coaches will see it at some point and it is going to be damn near impossible for him to make this HIS team after that. He has to earn his teammates respect and the crying will not help that in any way. Sadly, he needs to put the stuff aside and wait until he gets home with the wife and then he can cry all night but doing it like that is going to really hurt his chances of maybe ever getting anotehr shot...even with another team.

I dunno, I think maybe that if they see he really cares that much, and if he goes to work this week to improve on his mistakes, then I think it could still work. I would almost rather have a QB that cares too much rather than one who doesn't care at all.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So explain to me the 7 or so previous 1,000 yd seasons?

what the hell does that have to do with the price of tea in china -I don't know - maybe previously he played on a SUPER BOWL team in New England with Bill Parcells or then went ot a Jets team ALSO coached by Bill Parcells that went 12-4 and to the AFC Title game - then everyone said he started slowing down, Parcells left, Al Grho turned the Jets back into losers, they revamped the team with a new head coach, started Pennington after sitting him for two years and their offense has been very good ever since. What the hell point are you making with the above. People that don't watch football other than the Cardinals shouldn't try and talk about it because it makes them look as foolish as all those who rip on our team without having any knowledge of the subject.