I just watched the tape again, and...

[Crimson Warrior]

couple of things I'd like to point out.

I know people are going to disagree with me. But, overall, we didn't play that bad. The penalties were awful. But from an execution stand point things were ok (with the exception of the o line).

More specifically:

1. The O line. Definitely our weakest unit right now. Wells and Bridges had bad days. Davis and Shelton were good. Step was ok. Still need to play much much better as a unit.

2. Fitz running wide open - on at least three occasions, he had two, three, even four steps on his guy. He is definitely getting wide open on some plays. Josh only got it to him twice when he was wide, wide open. (on one play, he was getting crushed by a d line man). Other receivers, like Obendajio in the first half, are getting open without getting the ball. But mostly I saw Fitz.

3. The helmet to helmet call on MIA that nullified the interception. was a WASH because BOLDIN was CLEARLY interfered with on that play. CLEARLY, I say. If Taylor then kicks the ball, thats on him. The end result is that the officiating was poor on BOTH sides of the ball. We DID NOT get too much help from the officials in winning this game.

4. McCown - His line, 18/31 163 yards, 1 TD, passer rating of 85, says it all. They are not asking him do too much, and he is doing what they ask him to do! In the end, he led his team down the field and got the W. You guys can sit around and talk about how this is his third year all you want, but that fact remains is that he still doesn't have a full season of starts under his belt yet.

One excellent play by McCown: 10:00 left in the game, 3rd and 5 from the Dolphin 10, Josh fires a strike to Johnson for a CRITICAL first down. The next time the huddle, McCown is yelling, and clapping his hands, to get the team fired up. The very next play, they punch it in on the ground.

Thats the first time that I saw emotion like that out of Josh. It was timely, and it appeared to work.

5. Russell Davis had a VERY good game. 7 big tackles to lead the team, from the NG position. and they weren't 10 yards down the field either. They were all at the line of scrimmage. Plus, two passes defensed. The problem in the running game was at the LB level. Davis had as many tackles as McKinnon, Hayes, and Dansby combined! I don't know what game you guys that are bashing Davis were watching, but you need to get a clue. That play where he "spun out of his lane" was a draw play on 2nd and 20. I'll let Davis slide for taking a risk there.

something for everyone.

 

[Redheart]

Great Post!

Thanks for taking the time to review the tape. I think your perceptions match mine a lot more closely than some of the early posts about this game and Josh.

It was not a good game from him in terms of big numbers, and in spite of his over-all efficiency stats, he salvaged this game for himself and the team in the last quarter.

The point that he LED the team to a W, in the last drive, is not trival and should not be overlooked when asking if he has the "sack" to do what DG requires of him.

He answered the bell in Miami.

 

[arthurracoon]

5. Russell Davis had a VERY good game. 7 big tackles to lead the team, from the NG position. and they weren't 10 yards down the field either. They were all at the line of scrimmage. Plus, two passes defensed. The problem in the running game was at the LB level. Davis had as many tackles as McKinnon, Hayes, and Dansby combined! I don't know what game you guys that are bashing Davis were watching, but you need to get a clue. That play where he "spun out of his lane" was a draw play on 2nd and 20. I let Davis slide for taking a risk there.

THANK YOU!!!

Everyone was saying he had a bad game, and I was arguing Russel's case but had no specific info.

I CONCUR 100%!!!

 

[Redheart]

THANK YOU!!!

Everyone was saying he had a bad game, and I was arguing Russel's case but had no specific info.

I CONCUR 100%!!!

Yes, echo on Davis.

 

[az jam]

Nice analysis.

 

[Rats]

Nice analysis.

I would also say nice analysis....Davis really had his best game as a Card. If he could sack a qb he would be a steller DT. He is still realativly young. The offense will be hampered until the OLINE gets cohesion. I think that Emmitt has helped alot more than we think in this regard. He played behind some really good lines and now he is trying to find seams and there is nothing there. IMO your right about the early negativity on the game. There was some things that were bad, somethings good, and even more to build on. Winning on the road against a team we have not beaten in our history is something that you can build on. DG will do this and we are going to have a very good chance in the second half.

 

[BradMannTX]

Sorry, but McCown still sucks. It's only a matter of time before his all-star cast of receivers start biatching, too.

I think Qs comments preseason about King being the starter by midseason were strategically placed and quite on purpose. If they are the "correct" call or not, that is TBD, but my gut (and the same beer-filled, KFC eatin', Pizza Hut stuffed tub of goo a lot of others have) says McCown sucks.

I'll eat my own lawn if the guy makes it to the Pro Bowl for us or any other team. I'll eat my own cooking if he even makes it to the Superbowl as a backup.

 

[az1965]

Hey Warrior:
Great analysis! Please keep on doing on rest of the games. Good to see other perceptions. Thanks!

 

[az1965]

I'll eat my own lawn if the guy makes it to the Pro Bowl for us or any other team. I'll eat my own cooking if he even makes it to the Superbowl as a backup.

I don't think Josh is asked to be a pro-bowl QB. DG's system requires a decent, serviceable QB. I believe Josh is currently struggling to be even that but, hey, give him at least one full season. We gave Plummer six seasons! It's not like we are going to playoffs this year even though Green is keep on harping on it.

 

[BradMannTX]

I don't think Josh is asked to be a pro-bowl QB. DG's system requires a decent, serviceable QB. I believe Josh is currently struggling to be even that but, hey, give him at least one full season. We gave Plummer six seasons! It's not like we are going to playoffs this year even though Green is keep on harping on it.

First, the fact we gave Jake 6 seasons is EXACTLY why I think Josh doesn't deserve one game more. Even Drew Brees and Tim Couch showed more in 10 games than McCown.

Second, I think it may be true that McCown is the lesser of 2 evils (McCown vs. King), and that is the only reason Green stays with him. I think if I were the coach, I'd put in King. Obviously, not my call. But McCown sucks. I can't think of any other way to put it. He just sucks. I think Jake sucks, too. But even Jake has enough of "it" to be a manageable QB in a good situation. And Jake is fun to watch while he sucks.

 

[BradMannTX]

I don't think Josh is asked to be a pro-bowl QB. DG's system requires a decent, serviceable QB. I believe Josh is currently struggling to be even that but, hey, give him at least one full season. We gave Plummer six seasons! It's not like we are going to playoffs this year even though Green is keep on harping on it.

And, I'll grant you that. I was intending to imply a general measuring stick by which we could measure McCown's performance. If he doesn't make the pro bowl, or fails to sniff the SuperBowl, I'd bet we could say he pretty much sucks. Think about most of the other QBs in the league that are "good": they've either sniffed the SuperBowl, or were perennial Pro Bowlers.

 

[BACH]

Even Drew Brees and Tim Couch showed more in 10 games than McCown.

In their first 10 starts:

Drew Brees - 309 ATT - 190 COM - 61,49% - 1999 yards - 12 TDs - 11 INTS - 80,52 rating - 75,7 Median
Josh McCown - 300 ATT 176 COM - 58,67% - 1900 yards - 9 TDs - 5 INTS - 80,19 rating - 85,7 Median
Tim Couch - 273 ATT - 159 COM - 58,24% - 1813 yards - 12 TDs - 10 INTS - 80,16 rating - 80 Median

Hmm, as you can see the three players put up identical number in their first 10 starts.
The most reveiling stat is the median, where Josh scores the highest. That basicly tells you that Josh is the one putting up the most consistent numbers. He doesn't have as many great games and he doesn't have as many bad games.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Hmm, as you can see the three players put up identical number in their first 10 starts.
.

Bach please list the starting 3 wr's for each QB please and the amount of money paid for each trio.

 

[Wildfire]

Bach:

Great post. While we all live and die by our emotions when talking about the Cards, the raw truth, ie: STATS, are the great healers of our raw emotions.

Again, thanks for the time uyou put into gathering the stats.

GO CARDS

 

[BACH]

Bach please list the starting 3 wr's for each QB please and the amount of money paid for each trio.

I could, but then I would also have to rate the quality of the protection from their respective O-lines and the pressure taken off the QBs from the running game.

 

[CaptTurbo]

I could, but then I would also have to rate the quality of the protection from their respective O-lines and the pressure taken off the QBs from the running game.

of course because McCown is the only qb in the league that needs everything to be the best to succeed. He may financially break the franchise becasue no qb ever has had everything perfect. All of them had some sort of skill that could be used to make up for a lack of skill at another position.

 

[WildBB]

Good post warrior. I agree with your assesments. But--- the should have penalty on Boldin You can't rely on a call there.

If McCown doesn't get that 4th down run we're talking 2-6 and a ruined season. So all that doesn't matter. Green took a BIG GAMBLE sticking with him the whole way. Fortune did shine on us that game.

 

[john h]

THANK YOU!!!

Everyone was saying he had a bad game, and I was arguing Russel's case but had no specific info.

I CONCUR 100%!!!

Appreciate your observations but do not agree with them all. You did see the good but not quiet all the bad. This game is now history and the NYG are in town with a much better team than hopeless Miami. The Giants have a QB that will eat you up with the short passes over the middle which we have not been able to defend against. I have no idea what to expect and can only hope that Josh supporters are right and I am wrong. I desperately want this guy to succeed but honestly from what I have seen it is a long shot. Long shots do sometimes come in. I like most of Josh's critics really do not enjoy being critical as it is lots more fun to be on top and cheer for your stars but I will not be blinded by poor play and lack of progression. If players perform poorly then it should be noted. Go Cards and supprise us this week. The line was 2 points the last time I looked which I think is the smallest spread for us this year. That really supprised me. Maybe the money people are seeing things i am not because they generally call it like it is. There only interest is the money and they are not emotionally vested like most of us.

 

[john h]

First, the fact we gave Jake 6 seasons is EXACTLY why I think Josh doesn't deserve one game more. Even Drew Brees and Tim Couch showed more in 10 games than McCown.

Second, I think it may be true that McCown is the lesser of 2 evils (McCown vs. King), and that is the only reason Green stays with him. I think if I were the coach, I'd put in King. Obviously, not my call. But McCown sucks. I can't think of any other way to put it. He just sucks. I think Jake sucks, too. But even Jake has enough of "it" to be a manageable QB in a good situation. And Jake is fun to watch while he sucks.

I was no Jake fan but think he was light years ahead of McCown in leadership, scrambling and getting the ball to the receivers. Jake could have a great quarter or half and then lose it totally. He was a firey QB. Josh seems to lack the fire in his belly. You can see it on the sidelines when he often hangs his head.

 

[Mulli]

Crimson, since you watched the game again, can you tell me if the last pass of the game by Feeley was tipped? For some reason I am obsessed with knowing whether or not Feeley's arm is so week that he can't throw it farther than that.

 

[john h]

In their first 10 starts:

Drew Brees - 309 ATT - 190 COM - 61,49% - 1999 yards - 12 TDs - 11 INTS - 80,52 rating - 75,7 Median
Josh McCown - 300 ATT 176 COM - 58,67% - 1900 yards - 9 TDs - 5 INTS - 80,19 rating - 85,7 Median
Tim Couch - 273 ATT - 159 COM - 58,24% - 1813 yards - 12 TDs - 10 INTS - 80,16 rating - 80 Median

Hmm, as you can see the three players put up identical number in their first 10 starts.
The most reveiling stat is the median, where Josh scores the highest. That basicly tells you that Josh is the one putting up the most consistent numbers. He doesn't have as many great games and he doesn't have as many bad games.

I do not know the stats but it seems that most of Josh's completions are of the short less than 10yd variety. I bet those other QB's were pushing the ball downfield a lot more. Anyway I am not concerned about them I am concerned about Josh and where he is now. All of us see him weekly and some see something very different from what others see. I find it unusual. In Philly or NY I suspect that Josh would have been booed out of town by now as they have absolutely no patience or tollerance for failure. Cards fans are a bit different in that they have not experienced success for decades. If we go 8/8 we look and say we are improving. Other teams fire the coach or bring in a new QB.

 

[Russ Smith]

In their first 10 starts:

Drew Brees - 309 ATT - 190 COM - 61,49% - 1999 yards - 12 TDs - 11 INTS - 80,52 rating - 75,7 Median
Josh McCown - 300 ATT 176 COM - 58,67% - 1900 yards - 9 TDs - 5 INTS - 80,19 rating - 85,7 Median
Tim Couch - 273 ATT - 159 COM - 58,24% - 1813 yards - 12 TDs - 10 INTS - 80,16 rating - 80 Median

Hmm, as you can see the three players put up identical number in their first 10 starts.
The most reveiling stat is the median, where Josh scores the highest. That basicly tells you that Josh is the one putting up the most consistent numbers. He doesn't have as many great games and he doesn't have as many bad games.

Shows Josh isn't throwing picks which is something Green really likes. Doesn't count fumbles of course. IN his first 17 NFL games, 11 starts, Josh has 17 fumbles, losing 7 of them. Brees had 4, lost none of them. Couch fumbled 14 times his rookie year starting 14 games playing in 15. I'd say the comparison of Couch as a rookie to Josh in his 3rd year is pretty close.

 

[john h]

Bach:

Great post. While we all live and die by our emotions when talking about the Cards, the raw truth, ie: STATS, are the great healers of our raw emotions.

Again, thanks for the time uyou put into gathering the stats.

GO CARDS

The most important stat of all which trumps all other stats is Won/Lost. Other stats are just used to support what ever ones position is or to base a salary on. If one were to look at our Won/Lost record over the past 10 years you have an accurate idea of our ability to improve from year to year. At this point it appears to me we are going to come in with our typical won/lost record with 4-5 victories. One can look at our team and say we are really improving and not the same old Cardinals but until the won/lost record improves we will continue to be the same old Cards.

 

[Russ Smith]

The most important stat of all which trumps all other stats is Won/Lost. Other stats are just used to support what ever ones position is or to base a salary on. If one were to look at our Won/Lost record over the past 10 years you have an accurate idea of our ability to improve from year to year. At this point it appears to me we are going to come in with our typical won/lost record with 4-5 victories. One can look at our team and say we are really improving and not the same old Cardinals but until the won/lost record improves we will continue to be the same old Cards.

Only if we totally collapse over the last 8 games John. We are 3-5 but we've gone 3-2 the last 5 games and should have been 4-1 if we hadn't blown the 49er game.

We absolutely ARE playing better, there's still room for improvement all over, the OL, RB, QB, TE, special teams and defense too, but we abosultely ARE a better team this year than you seem to think. We've still only been outscored by 15 points all year

 

[pete]

Only if we totally collapse over the last 8 games John. We are 3-5 but we've gone 3-2 the last 5 games and should have been 4-1 if we hadn't blown the 49er game.

We absolutely ARE playing better, there's still room for improvement all over, the OL, RB, QB, TE, special teams and defense too, but we abosultely ARE a better team this year than you seem to think. We've still only been outscored by 15 points all year

You can't even compare this team to the Mac teams even though many of the players are the same. Just goes to show what a better system and some decent coaching can do. This team has been in every game this year up until halftime/3rd quarter and that is a far cry from the giving up in the first 5 minutes of a game crap that we saw under Mac. That, in itself, is a major victory.

I just find it ironic that an offensive minded coach comes in here and completely turns around a pathetic defense in one year while he has to watch his offense struggle week after week. One of these weeks, it will click on offense too. Maybe this is the week.