I Was Clearly Wrong

Chopper0080

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but in the case of NY...many of the eggs are rotten,...and the coach has to figure out which ones to throw away...

and then...some of the eggs are in Detroit.......DETROIT,...Im sure you have at least seen the pictures.. but in case you havent,...they are arresting homeless people for having sex on the sidewalks in detroit.... not to mention this is the same organization that kept Matt Millen as GM for years....

then in Indy, well...that big ol tasty ostrich egg may not have any yolk in it...wont know until next season

Marcus Mariotta...good kid

People have this idea that all other circumstances don't come second to QB, but they do.

If Tom Brady is in Cleveland, Cleveland becomes a much better option than what it currently is. That is a fact. Brady trumps all of the other issues.

NY Giants WITH Eli and the #2 pick trumps AZ and the 15th pick. It just does.

Indy WITH Luck, Brissett, and the #3 pick trumps AZ and the 15th pick.

same with Detroit and the same with Tennessee.

Now, if a candidate HATES Marcus Mariota, then of course, that devalues the opportunity unless the front office is willing to trade Mariota. Same with the other spots.

Yes, city, franchise history, roster strength and GM all matter, but in relation to having a QB and not having a QB, they don't matter nearly as much.
 

Arz101

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No. We are asking him to make tofu eggs. We are asking him to compete using a limited number of items.

Again...we are trying to sell that all of these situations are the same, when clearly option E is at a disadvantage.

A. Eli Manning and the #2 pick in the NFL draft.
B. Matt Stafford and the #20 pick in the NFL draft.
C. Andrew Luck, Jacoby Brissett, and the #3 pick in the NFL draft.
D. Marcus Mariota
E. No QB under contract and the #15 pick in the NFL draft.

But thank you for pointing out where a simplified analogy can't encompass the complexity of a multi team head coaching search...bravo to you.

This job is not appealing for many reasons including the absence of a QB.

FA QBs this year are really good: Cousins, Brees, Keenum, Bridgewater, Bradford, Alex Smith (trade). Hopefully cardinals hire a good talent evaluator that compliments Keim to take advantage of this.

I like a coach who likes to shop instead of ordering at hello fresh.
 

oaken1

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People have this idea that all other circumstances don't come second to QB, but they do.

If Tom Brady is in Cleveland, Cleveland becomes a much better option than what it currently is. That is a fact. Brady trumps all of the other issues.

NY Giants WITH Eli and the #2 pick trumps AZ and the 15th pick. It just does.

Indy WITH Luck, Brissett, and the #3 pick trumps AZ and the 15th pick.

same with Detroit and the same with Tennessee.

Now, if a candidate HATES Marcus Mariota, then of course, that devalues the opportunity unless the front office is willing to trade Mariota. Same with the other spots.

Yes, city, franchise history, roster strength and GM all matter, but in relation to having a QB and not having a QB, they don't matter nearly as much.

The new york Giants are a dumpster fire with no quality leadership... Eli is impotent to stop the cancer from eating them up... they are going to have to make some very hard decisions in NY
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/giants-beckham-team-disaster-article-1.3632765

an example of Eli...not overcoming rotten eggs..


yes,...having the GOAT at QB makes a difference.... but rather you have Matt Stafford...or Alex Smith, or Kirk Cousins...really doesnt, except for schemes.
If our incoming coach wants alex smith he is going to get alex smith...same with cousins

we cant GET Tom Brady,...and neither can any coach out there looking for a job

The only person in indy who thinks Luck is coming back is the owner...and I heard he smokes cocaine or something... I think Luck CAN come back but an incoming coach has to look at his QB room and see only brissett.. They need to pray Luck is throwing 20 yard outs before the draft or they might waste a pick.

Having a top draft pick means ONE thing.... your team really SUCKED last year...and all of us have been around long enough to know when you suck bad enough to have a top 5 pick that pick alone aint gonna change anything any time soon.

a coach either has the balls to want to build his offense his own way ..or he dont... I for one dont want a coach who wants to hitch a ride on someone elses coat tails. We need a coach whose competitive edge forces him to build the team his way, in his image... the entire organization needs it, not just the offense...... If a guy doesnt have that type of competitive edge to him I dont want him as coach anyway...even if we did have Tom Brady
 

CardsFan88

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Really?

You are going to tell me that option E is as desirable as A, B, C, and D to a prospective head coach?

A. Eli Manning and the #2 pick in the NFL draft.
B. Matt Stafford and the #20 pick in the NFL draft.
C. Andrew Luck, Jacoby Brissett, and the #3 pick in the NFL draft.
D. Marcus Mariota
E. No QB under contract and the #15 pick in the NFL draft.

Ok, so the QB situation is bad, but we are much better off in other areas...but where? RB. Yes. OL, no. Even the best argument gets us to, as bad as the others. WR...again, we are at best tied for, as bad as the others. Defense? Sure, we are arguably the best, but the Jags defense just gave up 42. Vikings defense had Brees throwing all over it. We aren't that good of a defense in terms of personnel.

At the end of the day, we are an average franchise, with little to nothing to offer at QB unless we use a ton of resources to spend on Kirk Cousins/Case Keenum or trade up to get the 4th or 5th best QB in the draft. Now, I'm not saying that it can't work out. But, I am saying it is not the situation that a prospective head coach looks at and says this is better than those other options. It just isn't. We are going to have to look harder to find the right guy to coach this team, just like we are going to have to be VERY creative to find our way to a league average QB. Not much room for error.


A. John Mara is a disaster.

You saw the earthquake when Eli was benched. Even though Mara gave McAdoo the authority and told him he wanted to see the backups play, Mara was an idiot in thinking he wasn't actually going to use it (no... REALLY), then using that authority given by the owner to bench Eli was the last straw for Mara regarding McAdoo. That's an armpit of the NFL type happening.

What the hell kind of owner does that? A really, really, really bad one. Flaky. Out of touch. Meddling. Mara is a walking disaster. The problem with the Giants starts at the top.

The players who mutinied and acted like idiots are still on the team with a fresh slate. So their idiocy was reinforced and rewarded with a clean slate. It could come back at any time. Many of them are their best players. That's a problem. Because if it rears its head again, much of the talent of the team is going to have to go.

Meanwhile OBJ is coming off a fractured ankle and may never be the same. He's a headcase diva who wants beaucorp money, as he stated it, like Steph Curry. That's a problem.

They treated Tom Coughlin like dog excrement (and I'm sure he's laughing now), then hired McAdoo.

McAdoo goes to the playoffs. Within a few games this year, the inmates were running the asylum, guys are getting suspended left and right, Eli gets benched in a power play, Mara's are oblivious to all this dysfunction, give McAdoo authority to do something, but is too out of touch to understand what power they actually give McAdoo, he benches Manning, Mara's freak out, fire their head coach. Not even a season after taking them to the playoffs. He didn't even get to finish 2 seasons.

How appealing does a place look when the last head coach gets fired before 2 years is up, made the playoffs one of them, and the final straw for the owner was the head coach doing what the owner basically told him to do.

Giants look like a disaster. #2 and Eli is nothing compared to this. Nothing.

B. I didn't bring up the Lions because they are the only team that I think could beat us in what they offer. They got Patricia, which doesn't seem like we were too interested in to begin with. But we've known that for awhile now. This place was off the table before the board sentiment kicked in.

I wanted Stafford if they didn't re-sign him.

C. Andrew Luck. Is he even going to play again? 6yr 140 million dollar contract. I was one of the ones who wasn't buying Irsay's BS. I said something stunk to high heaven regarding Luck. I was right. He didn't play all season. Had to go to Europe to try a procedure and still there's no guarantee he ever steps foot on an NFL field again.

At any point between now and September his shoulder could become sore again.

Even if he makes it back, he's injury prone, and I have a feeling this shoulder is going to cause more problems in the future. His shoulder injury looks like something that can be a recurring problem for him in a violent sport where he's going to land on that shoulder hundreds of times if he were to play his career out like people thought up until this injury.

Jacoby Brissett doesn't look that good. He looks halfway decent, but more dink and dunk. Maybe a #20-32 starter for a few years. Could he surprise, maybe, but he's a dime a dozen. Granted it was his 2nd year, so he could improve. But the game still looked too fast for him and he was too quick to dump off short. That's a concern to me. If you can't read downfield very well and dump off, you might as well be Matt Leinart. In other words, a dime a dozen.

The Colts don't look promising. Have Irsay as owner. #3 pick in the draft is nice, but that will net you 1 player. They might be best served taking a QB.

D. Marcus Mariota? Wasn't sold on him throwing to wide open receivers at Oregon. See he still has trouble throwing in tighter windows in the NFL. Regressing despite having a solid line, and two stud RB's. Well Murray is on the downside, but still Henry is a beast. Mariota's just not all that. Maybe someone can harness him, and he's not a bad QB, he's serviceable, but I don't see him as a big draw. But whatever promise he still has is more than obliterated by ownership.

Meanwhile this is a team whose idiot owner just fired a guy after 2 seasons. A guy who went 9-7 BOTH years. Made the playoffs this year. Won a playoff game. Should be heaping praise, not looking for work.

Before the playoff game a report came out that they would fire him if they didn't win. He won. Owner supported him. Lose next game. Then we are supposed to believe they were going to extend him, but fired him after he didn't want to make coaching changes?

Oh and remember this is the 2nd coach they've fired after two years... in a row. They'll be on their 3rd coach in 5 years. Yikes.

The whole ownership situation with Titans puts everybody in limbo, and who knows what happens on that front. Whenever new ownership comes in, you could be out. Same thing could happen to Rivera after next year with whoever buys the Panthers.



A, C, and D look like disasters from an ownership perspective. That's a huge thing. They don't seem to know what they want, or how to get there, except they expect to win. They won't give you long, and even if you have a good amount of success, they will give you ultimatum's and fire you.

Compared to A, C, and D, our ownership is lights out better. Not even close. It's professionally run versus Mickey Mouse.

Our ownership is always looking to improve itself. It's become very process oriented. Processes built off of best practices. Our ownership bends over backwards trying to create the best situation for any GM/coach to succeed in.

The funny thing is, this is what we as Cards fans have been screaming for our whole lives. Competent ownership. Now that our competent ownership is adhering to their process, people are freaking out that we're missing out on coaches from teams who likely aren't following a competent process.

It's just kind of funny to me. If anything I'm sort of enjoying it a bit. It shows how far we've come. I don't want us to copy what the Giants, Colts, and Titans are doing. They don't seem to be looking for what could be the best fit for them, but chasing the perception of who is the best coach. They are looking for a complete new plan/leadership, whereas our front office has leaders who are merely looking for a strong leader who can handle their sphere and fits in well with Steve and Michael. That's the impression I get.

We do have some key players and hard to find positions. Lockdown corner. Premier pass rusher. Stud running back. We've got some other nice pieces as well.

There's a reason we went 8-8 without so much of our talent. Despite our deficiency of basically going the past few years with what amounts to a receiving core of a #3, #4, and #5 receivers. I don't hate on Brown or Nelson. I just never expected them to be #1 or #2 receivers. I expected them to be a #4 and #5. Fitz is a #3. So yeah, we need WR help. But receivers are pretty easy to find. #1 harder, but plenty of #2's and #3's to be had. I suggest Christian Kirk in this draft. You want a stud with Fitz's team aspect, he's your guy. Only 5'11", but that's taller then Antonio Brown.

In this draft, the 3,4,5 QB's might be better then the #1 or #2. As now, Darnold and Rosen are projected as the top 2. I think the next three or four have a great shot of being better then them. It would not surprise me to see Darnold and Rosen fall and others jump above. Overall unless you are sure about a specific guy, this isn't the draft to trade up to get a QB. We can't fight this battle using last battle rules. Last year was a year we could of traded up. This year, as of now, I would specifically avoid it.

So as you can see, the #2 pick or thereabouts doesn't look like a huge thing to me. If QB is the issue, we might get a better one at 15-47 then at 2. Maybe that changes, but I do not trade up for Darnold or Rosen, nor do I celebrate if I already have a pick that could guarantee one of those two would be mine.

We are going to have to use resources on a QB. We're going to sign someone or trade for someone before the draft. Probably two people. We don't know who all will be available. There's quite alot of options.

Would a specific coach rather have Rosen/Eli and the rest of their crappy situation or our much better situation and Smith/Mayfield or McCarron/Jackson. I just don't see Rosen/Eli or Darnold/Eli as some huge draw. But I sure and the hell would be scared off by the idiocy and impatience of the ownership of the Giants (and players), Titans, and Colts (not impatient).

Not every head coach thinks he has to have a good QB before he'll sign, and really none of the openings have one except Stafford.

I don't get the we'll need to look harder for a coach. I'd be pissed off if we didn't look hard. These other teams, many don't look like they are trying too hard. That might be because they don't have a good ownership/front office plan. They're flailing around trying to find sure things and blame those sure things when it turns out, almost predictably, they aren't so sure.

I'll take our longer term process over their short term idiocy any day. First isn't best, and last isn't worst. The best coaches could still be out there.

No matter what they do, we were going to do our process, because to US, that is how OUR ownership will find the best candidate. for US. I can't ask for them to do something else, because in the long run, anything other then this approach will be a disaster for us. I sure don't want them to switch gears midstream and jump at a candidate who may be 5th best, but is about to be signed 1st. I want them to get the best candidate that fits us, because that's all any ownership can do. You risk more by jumping the gun then waiting.

Now that doesn't mean over time there isn't a single situation where we have our guy lined up. But overall the process is still useful to find stuff we don't know, new ideas, new directions. It's a good process to be involved with overall.

We've got a team that could win the Superbowl next year, hell we were 8-8 this year and ~2 games from the playoffs. We don't need a complete rebuild. But we're in a situation where the new coach and new schemes might need some major changes. Just depends on the coach/scheme. Obviously a new QB room and philosophy is going to be a huge change. So we might suck next year. Even if we can't find the guy this year, there's next year. It's clear this is going to be Keim's highest priority.

As for our perception? We're not the Patriots. Everyone else is at least a notch below. I don't ever expect us to be on the Patriots level. If the perception is that the Colts, Giants, and Titans are as good or better then us, then that perception is massively flawed. If some candidates feel that way, well we'll see how they feel after they work with the inept ownership that's perception says is good.

Chasing perception is one of those lowest common denominator type things. Sometimes its unavoidable, but overall, it's not a strategy one wants to start with.

Again, we need to get what's best for us. If the candidates perceptions are flawed, well they don't fit us, and that's probably for the best. I'm not concerned with timing. I don't think we're being cheap. I doubt we're pushing Bettcher on anyone, just telling them we have this guy if you want.

We're an attractive franchise to the right kind of person. The kind that we want will appreciate our ownership, and not look at our empty QB room as some big obstacle, because most teams even with a full room have the same obstacle.
 

WildBB

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No treatise here. Who wants the challenge of building a team? If you don't keep on doing what ur doing, nice to have a chat. We have the resourses to get a rookie QB (trade up) and sign a vet for a couple seasons. We have talent in place. Rebuild the O-Line and sign a CB, improve the interior pass rush and we're competitive for the NFCW. Easy breezy. ;)
 

MrYeahBut

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Lets take this from a different angle...

You have to make an omelette, and you have two choices...

A. you are given Eggs
B. you are not given Eggs

Option A is the more desirable option, because it gives you the key ingredient. Option B isn't impossible, but it is much more difficult. Most people would choose option A.



Having worked in a kitchen at one time... the saying was that even though an omelette looks good on a plate, you never want a customer to watch you make it... it's messy.

.
 

JeffGollin

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The Cardinals went 8. & 8. (My lmited math background tells me that this was one win away from 9 & 7).

Injuries didn't help, but try this related theory on for size:

The Cards were designed to succeed as "biscuit" teams on both sides of the ball. Problem was: After all the injuries, we were forced to play too many backups who weren't suited for a "take no prisoners" offense or defense. Our more talented backups were too mistake-prone. Perhaps - post injuries - we would have done better with less talented tough guys in simpler schemes.
 

Chopper0080

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No treatise here. Who wants the challenge of building a team? If you don't keep on doing what ur doing, nice to have a chat. We have the resourses to get a rookie QB (trade up) and sign a vet for a couple seasons. We have talent in place. Rebuild the O-Line and sign a CB, improve the interior pass rush and we're competitive for the NFCW. Easy breezy. ;)

This is kinda false. We have the 15th overall pick in the draft and around 10mil in cap space per overthecap.com. Now, some of that cap space is going to change once Palmer's number is adjusted and if we cut some players. That being said, at the very minimum, it will require 40% of our available cap space to fill the QB position through free agency. That is starter and backup since we have neither. That number is more likely 12% if we sign a veteran QB as a backup with no interest in starting. That will require us to draft a QB. You say we have the resources to trade up in the draft. That being said, which team really wants to trade down? You can argue that 5 of the 7 first teams drafting need a QB. Free agency will clear up a little bit of this, but at best you are giving up #15, a 2018 3rd, and a 2019 1st to get the 3rd or 4th choice of what QB is left.

So, we are offering our future head coach either...

A. 40% less cap space and his choice of Cousins, Brandford, Bridgewater/Keenum

OR

B. No 3rd round pick this year, and no 1st round pick next year for his choice of Lamar Jackson or Baker Mayfield.
 

Jetstream Green

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Lets take this from a different angle...

You have to make an omelette, and you have two choices...

A. you are given Eggs
B. you are not given Eggs

Option A is the more desirable option, because it gives you the key ingredient. Option B isn't impossible, but it is much more difficult. Most people would choose option A.

This is the similar to the Cardinals coaching vacancy. We are offering an option that is lacking a key ingredient to success. It isn't that it is impossible, but it is much more difficult, and the majority of people will prefer the option that provides that key ingredient.

Bad analogy, because the Cardinals will allow the candidate to acquire the key ingredient :)
 

Chopper0080

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A. John Mara is a disaster.

You saw the earthquake when Eli was benched. Even though Mara gave McAdoo the authority and told him he wanted to see the backups play, Mara was an idiot in thinking he wasn't actually going to use it (no... REALLY), then using that authority given by the owner to bench Eli was the last straw for Mara regarding McAdoo. That's an armpit of the NFL type happening.

What the hell kind of owner does that? A really, really, really bad one. Flaky. Out of touch. Meddling. Mara is a walking disaster. The problem with the Giants starts at the top.

The players who mutinied and acted like idiots are still on the team with a fresh slate. So their idiocy was reinforced and rewarded with a clean slate. It could come back at any time. Many of them are their best players. That's a problem. Because if it rears its head again, much of the talent of the team is going to have to go.

Meanwhile OBJ is coming off a fractured ankle and may never be the same. He's a headcase diva who wants beaucorp money, as he stated it, like Steph Curry. That's a problem.

They treated Tom Coughlin like dog excrement (and I'm sure he's laughing now), then hired McAdoo.

McAdoo goes to the playoffs. Within a few games this year, the inmates were running the asylum, guys are getting suspended left and right, Eli gets benched in a power play, Mara's are oblivious to all this dysfunction, give McAdoo authority to do something, but is too out of touch to understand what power they actually give McAdoo, he benches Manning, Mara's freak out, fire their head coach. Not even a season after taking them to the playoffs. He didn't even get to finish 2 seasons.

How appealing does a place look when the last head coach gets fired before 2 years is up, made the playoffs one of them, and the final straw for the owner was the head coach doing what the owner basically told him to do.

Giants look like a disaster. #2 and Eli is nothing compared to this. Nothing.

B. I didn't bring up the Lions because they are the only team that I think could beat us in what they offer. They got Patricia, which doesn't seem like we were too interested in to begin with. But we've known that for awhile now. This place was off the table before the board sentiment kicked in.

I wanted Stafford if they didn't re-sign him.

C. Andrew Luck. Is he even going to play again? 6yr 140 million dollar contract. I was one of the ones who wasn't buying Irsay's BS. I said something stunk to high heaven regarding Luck. I was right. He didn't play all season. Had to go to Europe to try a procedure and still there's no guarantee he ever steps foot on an NFL field again.

At any point between now and September his shoulder could become sore again.

Even if he makes it back, he's injury prone, and I have a feeling this shoulder is going to cause more problems in the future. His shoulder injury looks like something that can be a recurring problem for him in a violent sport where he's going to land on that shoulder hundreds of times if he were to play his career out like people thought up until this injury.

Jacoby Brissett doesn't look that good. He looks halfway decent, but more dink and dunk. Maybe a #20-32 starter for a few years. Could he surprise, maybe, but he's a dime a dozen. Granted it was his 2nd year, so he could improve. But the game still looked too fast for him and he was too quick to dump off short. That's a concern to me. If you can't read downfield very well and dump off, you might as well be Matt Leinart. In other words, a dime a dozen.

The Colts don't look promising. Have Irsay as owner. #3 pick in the draft is nice, but that will net you 1 player. They might be best served taking a QB.

D. Marcus Mariota? Wasn't sold on him throwing to wide open receivers at Oregon. See he still has trouble throwing in tighter windows in the NFL. Regressing despite having a solid line, and two stud RB's. Well Murray is on the downside, but still Henry is a beast. Mariota's just not all that. Maybe someone can harness him, and he's not a bad QB, he's serviceable, but I don't see him as a big draw. But whatever promise he still has is more than obliterated by ownership.

Meanwhile this is a team whose idiot owner just fired a guy after 2 seasons. A guy who went 9-7 BOTH years. Made the playoffs this year. Won a playoff game. Should be heaping praise, not looking for work.

Before the playoff game a report came out that they would fire him if they didn't win. He won. Owner supported him. Lose next game. Then we are supposed to believe they were going to extend him, but fired him after he didn't want to make coaching changes?

Oh and remember this is the 2nd coach they've fired after two years... in a row. They'll be on their 3rd coach in 5 years. Yikes.

The whole ownership situation with Titans puts everybody in limbo, and who knows what happens on that front. Whenever new ownership comes in, you could be out. Same thing could happen to Rivera after next year with whoever buys the Panthers.



A, C, and D look like disasters from an ownership perspective. That's a huge thing. They don't seem to know what they want, or how to get there, except they expect to win. They won't give you long, and even if you have a good amount of success, they will give you ultimatum's and fire you.

Compared to A, C, and D, our ownership is lights out better. Not even close. It's professionally run versus Mickey Mouse.

Our ownership is always looking to improve itself. It's become very process oriented. Processes built off of best practices. Our ownership bends over backwards trying to create the best situation for any GM/coach to succeed in.

The funny thing is, this is what we as Cards fans have been screaming for our whole lives. Competent ownership. Now that our competent ownership is adhering to their process, people are freaking out that we're missing out on coaches from teams who likely aren't following a competent process.

It's just kind of funny to me. If anything I'm sort of enjoying it a bit. It shows how far we've come. I don't want us to copy what the Giants, Colts, and Titans are doing. They don't seem to be looking for what could be the best fit for them, but chasing the perception of who is the best coach. They are looking for a complete new plan/leadership, whereas our front office has leaders who are merely looking for a strong leader who can handle their sphere and fits in well with Steve and Michael. That's the impression I get.

We do have some key players and hard to find positions. Lockdown corner. Premier pass rusher. Stud running back. We've got some other nice pieces as well.

There's a reason we went 8-8 without so much of our talent. Despite our deficiency of basically going the past few years with what amounts to a receiving core of a #3, #4, and #5 receivers. I don't hate on Brown or Nelson. I just never expected them to be #1 or #2 receivers. I expected them to be a #4 and #5. Fitz is a #3. So yeah, we need WR help. But receivers are pretty easy to find. #1 harder, but plenty of #2's and #3's to be had. I suggest Christian Kirk in this draft. You want a stud with Fitz's team aspect, he's your guy. Only 5'11", but that's taller then Antonio Brown.

In this draft, the 3,4,5 QB's might be better then the #1 or #2. As now, Darnold and Rosen are projected as the top 2. I think the next three or four have a great shot of being better then them. It would not surprise me to see Darnold and Rosen fall and others jump above. Overall unless you are sure about a specific guy, this isn't the draft to trade up to get a QB. We can't fight this battle using last battle rules. Last year was a year we could of traded up. This year, as of now, I would specifically avoid it.

So as you can see, the #2 pick or thereabouts doesn't look like a huge thing to me. If QB is the issue, we might get a better one at 15-47 then at 2. Maybe that changes, but I do not trade up for Darnold or Rosen, nor do I celebrate if I already have a pick that could guarantee one of those two would be mine.

We are going to have to use resources on a QB. We're going to sign someone or trade for someone before the draft. Probably two people. We don't know who all will be available. There's quite alot of options.

Would a specific coach rather have Rosen/Eli and the rest of their crappy situation or our much better situation and Smith/Mayfield or McCarron/Jackson. I just don't see Rosen/Eli or Darnold/Eli as some huge draw. But I sure and the hell would be scared off by the idiocy and impatience of the ownership of the Giants (and players), Titans, and Colts (not impatient).

Not every head coach thinks he has to have a good QB before he'll sign, and really none of the openings have one except Stafford.

I don't get the we'll need to look harder for a coach. I'd be pissed off if we didn't look hard. These other teams, many don't look like they are trying too hard. That might be because they don't have a good ownership/front office plan. They're flailing around trying to find sure things and blame those sure things when it turns out, almost predictably, they aren't so sure.

I'll take our longer term process over their short term idiocy any day. First isn't best, and last isn't worst. The best coaches could still be out there.

No matter what they do, we were going to do our process, because to US, that is how OUR ownership will find the best candidate. for US. I can't ask for them to do something else, because in the long run, anything other then this approach will be a disaster for us. I sure don't want them to switch gears midstream and jump at a candidate who may be 5th best, but is about to be signed 1st. I want them to get the best candidate that fits us, because that's all any ownership can do. You risk more by jumping the gun then waiting.

Now that doesn't mean over time there isn't a single situation where we have our guy lined up. But overall the process is still useful to find stuff we don't know, new ideas, new directions. It's a good process to be involved with overall.

We've got a team that could win the Superbowl next year, hell we were 8-8 this year and ~2 games from the playoffs. We don't need a complete rebuild. But we're in a situation where the new coach and new schemes might need some major changes. Just depends on the coach/scheme. Obviously a new QB room and philosophy is going to be a huge change. So we might suck next year. Even if we can't find the guy this year, there's next year. It's clear this is going to be Keim's highest priority.

As for our perception? We're not the Patriots. Everyone else is at least a notch below. I don't ever expect us to be on the Patriots level. If the perception is that the Colts, Giants, and Titans are as good or better then us, then that perception is massively flawed. If some candidates feel that way, well we'll see how they feel after they work with the inept ownership that's perception says is good.

Chasing perception is one of those lowest common denominator type things. Sometimes its unavoidable, but overall, it's not a strategy one wants to start with.

Again, we need to get what's best for us. If the candidates perceptions are flawed, well they don't fit us, and that's probably for the best. I'm not concerned with timing. I don't think we're being cheap. I doubt we're pushing Bettcher on anyone, just telling them we have this guy if you want.

We're an attractive franchise to the right kind of person. The kind that we want will appreciate our ownership, and not look at our empty QB room as some big obstacle, because most teams even with a full room have the same obstacle.

I am going to start and stop at 2x Super Bowl Champion Owner John Mara is "a disaster". What does that make us? The Giants are a top franchise in NFL and in a top market. They have a GM who hits on first round picks. They made the playoffs in 2016 and we didn't, despite them having McAdoo and us having Arians.

Lets compare two franchises...

2x Super Bowl Owner John Mara
2x Super Bowl QB Eli Manning
#2 pick in the NFL Draft
2016 Playoff Roster, 2017 Non-Playoff Roster

vs

0x Super Bowl Owner Michael Bidwill
0x Super Bowl QB ???
#15 pick in the NFL Draft
2016 Non-Playoff Roster, 2017 Non-Playoff Roster

The other comparisons are similar...you, overestimating our ownership advantage and understating our inability to matchup with what other teams offer at QB, the most important position in the game.
 

Chopper0080

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Bad analogy, because the Cardinals will allow the candidate to acquire the key ingredient :)
No they won't...they will offer


A. 40% less cap space and his choice to bid on Cousins, Brandford, or Bridgewater/Keenum

OR

B. No 3rd round pick this year, and no 1st round pick next year for his choice of Lamar Jackson or Baker Mayfield.


again...this isn't anywhere close to as good of a deal as the other options available.
 

Chopper0080

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This job is not appealing for many reasons including the absence of a QB.

FA QBs this year are really good: Cousins, Brees, Keenum, Bridgewater, Bradford, Alex Smith (trade). Hopefully cardinals hire a good talent evaluator that compliments Keim to take advantage of this.

I like a coach who likes to shop instead of ordering at hello fresh.

Are you really trying to state that 20mil plus for Cousins, Keenum, Bridgewater, and Bradford is a "really good" option? That would be half of our available salary cap. OR we can trade a 2nd or 3rd round pick + pay Alex Smith 20 mil plus, and that is also a "really good" option? By the way, Brees isn't leaving New Orleans for us, so, not really an option to count on him.

This is an incredible reach and flat out silly. FA QB is AN option. But we have to swallow paying big money for a limited return and not have much left for other free agents. Alex Smith is possibly the worst option, because he would hit both the cap and our available draft picks.
 

Arz101

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Are you really trying to state that 20mil plus for Cousins, Keenum, Bridgewater, and Bradford is a "really good" option? That would be half of our available salary cap. OR we can trade a 2nd or 3rd round pick + pay Alex Smith 20 mil plus, and that is also a "really good" option? By the way, Brees isn't leaving New Orleans for us, so, not really an option to count on him.

This is an incredible reach and flat out silly. FA QB is AN option. But we have to swallow paying big money for a limited return and not have much left for other free agents. Alex Smith is possibly the worst option, because he would hit both the cap and our available draft picks.

Alright Chopper, I am offically off the Cousins bandwagon. Thanks to Scot McCloughan: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/19/scot-mccloughan-on-kirk-cousins-i-dont-see-special/
 

Chopper0080

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Alright Chopper, I am offically off the Cousins bandwagon. Thanks to Scot McCloughan: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/19/scot-mccloughan-on-kirk-cousins-i-dont-see-special/
My may be the "most special" option we have available to us.

If I could get Teddy Bridgewater for 3 years and 18 mil per year, I think that might be the best route.

I don't like the Bradford idea.

I hate the idea of giving up a 3rd and paying 20 mil for Alex Smith. If we were higher in the draft, I think I would be more comfortable with it.

I don't love the idea of paying 25 mil for Cousins, but he might be the best long-term option we have access to. Personally, I think he goes to Denver.

I think Minnesota franchises Keenum taking him off the market.

In terms of the draft, I don't believe we have a shot at Darnold. I don't know if I buy the hype of Allen at the top, but either he or Rosen will be gone. Indy is the prime spot to trade out, but you will have to offer a fortune to get them to pass on Barkley. Cleveland probably trades down with their second pick if Barkley is gone. I don't know if they would move down to 15 though. Again, they may take less to just move down to the Jets spot at 7.

Best case scenario IMO. We sign Bridgewater to a 3 year, 54 mil deal, and then make a small move up to grab Baker Mayfield if he falls past the Jets.
 

Arz101

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My may be the "most special" option we have available to us.

If I could get Teddy Bridgewater for 3 years and 18 mil per year, I think that might be the best route.

I don't like the Bradford idea.

I hate the idea of giving up a 3rd and paying 20 mil for Alex Smith. If we were higher in the draft, I think I would be more comfortable with it.

I don't love the idea of paying 25 mil for Cousins, but he might be the best long-term option we have access to. Personally, I think he goes to Denver.

I think Minnesota franchises Keenum taking him off the market.

In terms of the draft, I don't believe we have a shot at Darnold. I don't know if I buy the hype of Allen at the top, but either he or Rosen will be gone. Indy is the prime spot to trade out, but you will have to offer a fortune to get them to pass on Barkley. Cleveland probably trades down with their second pick if Barkley is gone. I don't know if they would move down to 15 though. Again, they may take less to just move down to the Jets spot at 7.

Best case scenario IMO. We sign Bridgewater to a 3 year, 54 mil deal, and then make a small move up to grab Baker Mayfield if he falls past the Jets.

In the last 5 min, I saw this. It is going to get saucy around here:

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