If Max Hall Takes Over The Reins...

[Mulli]

If Max Hall takes over the reigns, I will most likely not be watching most of the games.

Same goes for DA I guess.

 

[Russ Smith]

And what's with the refernce to Warner? Are you attempting to suggest that Kurt had a weak arm?

The last couple of years yes, and Kurt would often complete a non spiral too.

Part of arm strength being overrated is timing. Warner saw things before they happened so he got the ball out quicker. If you put a gun on it DA throws faster than Warner, but Warner's ball gets there same time if not earlier, and it's on TARGET!

Same thing with Brees, he never had a great arm, I hear it's actually stronger now than before his shoulder surgery, but because he sees the field he gets it out quicker so he can make up for the lack of velocity.

 

[Mulli]

In nearly every pass that he's made or attempted he's shown having to hide inadequate arm strength. I've been saying it since he was named the #2. Even in that highlight in this thread, Max Komar had to come back to the ball while the (fourth-string) safety was coming up on him.

You have no idea why no other NFL teams wanted him. I have some ideas. Some might have been height, some might have been because he went to a Mickey Mouse school, some might have been because he has a noodle arm.

I've seen 43 in-game pass attempts from Max Hall, and I'm convinced that he has inadequate arm strength to start at the NFL level. People whom I've talked to who saw Max Hall in camp said the same thing. You can not agree with me for now; I'll wait for you to catch up with me.

Agree.

 

[Russ Smith]

It's naive to think DA at this point is the best option at QB. NFL history says not to bring in a rookie UDFA QB as the starter while being 1st place in the division but I guarantee if DA remains the starter, he will be more of a liability than Mad Max. Let the rook take his lumps and eventually grow into "the guy." IF he does well, it means we dont have to look QB in the first round next season.

The Cards would be insane to pass on say Andrew Luck because of Hall, but yeah if you don't play him then you go into the offseason not knowing what you have in either him or Skelton. What i saw of Skelton in the preseason he is REALLY raw, he'd look worse than Jamarcus Russell did if he had to play now.

So the Cards need to know is what we saw of Hall all through OTA's and camp for real, or just illusion.

 

[TJ]

Why didnt any other team want Kurt Warner?? Why didnt any team but one want Tom Brady? How did Aaron Rodgers slide all the way down to the bottom of the 1st round. How did Matt Schaub go from Vick's back up to one of the more explosive QBs in the league.

Flawed logic. Give the rook his shot. He'll suck at first but who knows.

 

[Mulli]

Why didnt any other team want Kurt Warner?? Why didnt any team but one want Tom Brady? How did Aaron Rodgers slide all the way down to the bottom of the 1st round. How did Matt Schaub go from Vick's back up to one of the more explosive QBs in the league.

Flawed logic. Give the rook his shot. He'll suck at first but who knows.

Flawed analogies. Hall's skill set is not similar to any of those QB's. Nor is his size. Maybe Hall should try Arena Football, if it still exists.

 

[Russ Smith]

I've seen 43 in-game pass attempts from Max Hall, and I'm convinced that he has inadequate arm strength to start at the NFL level. People whom I've talked to who saw Max Hall in camp said the same thing. You can not agree with me for now; I'll wait for you to catch up with me.

So these people you talked with know more about the game than the entire coaching staff of the Cards?

Because that's what your saying, those people were at camp looking at the exact same throws the Cards highly paid coaches were looking at, and they can all see his arm is inadequate and the coaches can't.

Maybe these friends would be better serving us if they were on the cards scouting staff?

 

[chickenhead]

With what's going on right now, I'm nore concerned about resolving the QB situation than anything else. If it's not going to be DA next year, I want to know if it's going to be Hall next year. If it's not going to be Hall, I want to know that before training camp.

 

[TJ]

The Cards would be insane to pass on say Andrew Luck because of Hall, but yeah if you don't play him then you go into the offseason not knowing what you have in either him or Skelton. What i saw of Skelton in the preseason he is REALLY raw, he'd look worse than Jamarcus Russell did if he had to play now.

So the Cards need to know is what we saw of Hall all through OTA's and camp for real, or just illusion.

If Hall starts now, he has 12 games to show his worth. If he is no better than average, take Luck. But the $64 question is if he is going to be there when we pick.

This is looking 6 months into the future. We dont even know how our draft slot will pan out. We dont even know how the college players will pan out. Hell, I wouldnt mind taking an offensive lineman in the 1st to replace Levi or Keith.

Too many questions, not enough answers right now.

 

[TJ]

Flawed analogies. Hall's skill set is not similar to any of those QB's. Nor is his size. Maybe Hall should try Arena Football, if it still exists.

Quite the contrary. We see this all of the time. "All 32 teams passed on this guy." "This guy should have been picked in the first round." Blah blah blah.

Never once did I comment on his skill set. Actually, none of us are qualified to make guarantees on skill sets as they are not static. Good position coaches can help adjust those. As for ideal size, look at Drew Brees. How about Flutie in the past. Short QBs can succeed in the league. Therefore; dont push the dude off the cliff just yet. LEt's see what he has. IMO, he's a better option than DA

And yes, the AFL is still around. Spokane is the reining champs

 

[kerouac9]

Why didnt any other team want Kurt Warner?? Why didnt any team but one want Tom Brady? How did Aaron Rodgers slide all the way down to the bottom of the 1st round. How did Matt Schaub go from Vick's back up to one of the more explosive QBs in the league.

Flawed logic. Give the rook his shot. He'll suck at first but who knows.

1) Because Kurt Warner was a bad quarterback put into a position after knocking around the NFL when he appeared in a revolutionary offense with three Hall of Fame talents around him (four if you count Orlando Pace). Kurt Warner was not prepared to start as an undrafted rookie. Kurt also went to a college even more Mickey Mouse than BYU.

2) Tom Brady only started one year in college and was going to get drafted by somebody. There's a huge difference between a fifth-round pick and an undrafted free agent whom NOBODY wanted.

3) Aaron Rogers was a first-round pick. Give me a break.

4) Matt Schaub was a third-round pick from a school that at the time ran a pure, NFL-ready version of the West Coast offense.

Why don't you point to Tony Romo? The Cards desperately wanted him after Mac coached him at the Senior Bowl, but the Cowboys got him instead because he wanted to play in Dallas (or more money, or whatever).

So what quarterbacks succeed in the NFL is entirely random chance? Max Hall is just as likely to succeed in the NFL as Sam Bradford? You're accusing me of flawed logic? When do you decide that you've seen enough of Max Hall? After three years like the NFL waited until Kurt Warner figured it out?

 

[kerouac9]

So these people you talked with know more about the game than the entire coaching staff of the Cards?

Because that's what your saying, those people were at camp looking at the exact same throws the Cards highly paid coaches were looking at, and they can all see his arm is inadequate and the coaches can't.

Maybe these friends would be better serving us if they were on the cards scouting staff?

Sure. I'm sure that I knew more about Derek Anderson than the entire Arizona Cardinals coaching staff. I'm sure that I knew better than Thomas Jones than the entire Arizona Cardinals coaching staff at that time. I'm pretty sure that I knew more about Levi Brown than the entire Arizona Cardinals coaching staff.

This is the dumbest, most a priori argument ever. Coaches never make mistakes; they planned for this team to be terrible. You're carrying a lot of water for a guy whom you apparently think has a Ty Detmer like ceiling--a guy who has a career passer rating under 80.

When Coach's press conference is posted, I hope you listen. Coach Whis essentially admits that they didn't have a plan and they were stuck with Max Hall as the #2, and no one is looking among the veteran ranks for a solution to the quarterback problem.

 

[Russ Smith]

Sure. I'm sure that I knew more about Derek Anderson than the entire Arizona Cardinals coaching staff. I'm sure that I knew better than Thomas Jones than the entire Arizona Cardinals coaching staff at that time. I'm pretty sure that I knew more about Levi Brown than the entire Arizona Cardinals coaching staff.

This is the dumbest, most a priori argument ever. Coaches never make mistakes; they planned for this team to be terrible. You're carrying a lot of water for a guy whom you apparently think has a Ty Detmer like ceiling--a guy who has a career passer rating under 80.

When Coach's press conference is posted, I hope you listen. Coach Whis essentially admits that they didn't have a plan and they were stuck with Max Hall as the #2, and no one is looking among the veteran ranks for a solution to the quarterback problem.

Who said coaches NEVER make mistakes? I would say they tend to make certain kinds of mistakes, and the most common ones are this guy isn't a great player, but he's a great athlete I can coach him up. With Anderson it's he's not a great QB, but he has a rocket arm, I can coach him up. Coaches make mistakes like that all the time. I'd almost bet that after we dump DA, someone else will make the same mistake sign him and convince themselves they can get him to play better.

What I said was very specific, we're talking about the ability to make the throws necessary to play in the NFL. You keep insisting he can't, I am saying if he can't then we have to believe that we have a staff of coaches who don't know what throws are required to play in the NFL. There are going to be throws he can't make, but there are also a lot of throws he can make that DA can't because he sees things better and is more accurate.

You can't really believe that the Cards kept Max Hall because he had the 3rd highest Wonderlic score this year and they felt man this guy's our QBOF? Chris Miller played in the NFL, now he's a coach in the NFL, and he LOVES Max Hall. If Hall's arm is as bad as you say, then our staff is a bunch of morons that they can't see it.

 

[TJ]

1) Because Kurt Warner was a bad quarterback put into a position after knocking around the NFL when he appeared in a revolutionary offense with three Hall of Fame talents around him (four if you count Orlando Pace). Kurt Warner was not prepared to start as an undrafted rookie. Kurt also went to a college even more Mickey Mouse than BYU.

2) Tom Brady only started one year in college and was going to get drafted by somebody. There's a huge difference between a fifth-round pick and an undrafted free agent whom NOBODY wanted.

3) Aaron Rogers was a first-round pick. Give me a break.

4) Matt Schaub was a third-round pick from a school that at the time ran a pure, NFL-ready version of the West Coast offense.

Why don't you point to Tony Romo? The Cards desperately wanted him after Mac coached him at the Senior Bowl, but the Cowboys got him instead because he wanted to play in Dallas (or more money, or whatever).

So what quarterbacks succeed in the NFL is entirely random chance? Max Hall is just as likely to succeed in the NFL as Sam Bradford? You're accusing me of flawed logic? When do you decide that you've seen enough of Max Hall? After three years like the NFL waited until Kurt Warner figured it out?

Thanks for making all of my points for me!

Brown noser

 

[kerouac9]

Who said coaches NEVER make mistakes? I would say they tend to make certain kinds of mistakes, and the most common ones are this guy isn't a great player, but he's a great athlete I can coach him up. With Anderson it's he's not a great QB, but he has a rocket arm, I can coach him up. Coaches make mistakes like that all the time. I'd almost bet that after we dump DA, someone else will make the same mistake sign him and convince themselves they can get him to play better.

What I said was very specific, we're talking about the ability to make the throws necessary to play in the NFL. You keep insisting he can't, I am saying if he can't then we have to believe that we have a staff of coaches who don't know what throws are required to play in the NFL. There are going to be throws he can't make, but there are also a lot of throws he can make that DA can't because he sees things better and is more accurate.

You can't really believe that the Cards kept Max Hall because he had the 3rd highest Wonderlic score this year and they felt man this guy's our QBOF? Chris Miller played in the NFL, now he's a coach in the NFL, and he LOVES Max Hall. If Hall's arm is as bad as you say, then our staff is a bunch of morons that they can't see it.

I don't think they ever intended Max Hall to be our QBOF. I'm not sure why it's so hard for you to believe that the team ended up stuck with Max Hall.

Listen to today's press conference; Whis essentially admits it. The Cards kept Max Hall because #7 went and talked to the media and undermined the HC. They couldn't keep him around after that. And then they were stuck with what they had on the roster and talking Max Hall up to an idiot like Peter King.

Ken Whisenhunt loved Brian St. Pierre. Do you think that's because of his huge arm? Coaches fall in love with players who stink all the time.

 

[Mulli]

Thanks for making all of my points for me!

Brown noser

Do you really care if your points are made? What does that mean? Still doesn't make Hall any good.

 

[jefftheshark]

DA vs. Hall is like arguing would you rather have syphilis or gonorrhea after just getting rid of chlamydia.

JTS

 

[TJ]

Do you really care if your points are made? What does that mean? Still doesn't make Hall any good.

Just making a point to K-9. No pun intended.

And no it doesnt prove that Hall is any good. Just shows that it's way too soon to start engraving his tombstone. We are still in the process of doing Anderson's

 

[Pariah]

When do you decide that you've seen enough of Max Hall?

Certainly not after a half of regular season football.

I'd like to see a few games, and what I'd be looking for is growth and potential. I don't expect him to carry the team on his back (this is a particularly heavy team). I also don't expect the Cards to put all their eggs in his basket after this season--I'd like to see them get a kid in the first couple rounds in the draft or get a proven vet via FA or trade in the offseason. (If they go the route of drafting someone, I'd guess that either Hall has proven to be at least an adequate fill-in/place-holder, because 3 QBs on the roster with a total of 2 years experience would be...well, at this point it sounds like it would be a very cardinals thing to do).

 

[Pariah]

Coaches fall in love with players who stink all the time.

Sure they do. I just think it's WAY too early to tell if he stinks or not.

 

[Mulli]

Just making a point to K-9. No pun intended.

And no it doesnt prove that Hall is any good. Just shows the it's way too soon to start engraving his tombstone. We are still in the process of doing Anderson's

Probably so. It was weird, DA looked good his first few throws. Then the TD was called back and it was all over.

 

[desertdawg]

DA vs. Hall is like arguing would you rather have syphilis or gonorrhea after just getting rid of chlamydia.

JTS

So chlamydia would be Matt Leinart?

 

[TJ]

Probably so. It was weird, DA looked good his first few throws. Then the TD was called back and it was all over.

Yep..still trying to figure out who held on that play....

 

[kerouac9]

Certainly not after a half of regular season football.

I'd like to see a few games, and what I'd be looking for is growth and potential. I don't expect him to carry the team on his back (this is a particularly heavy team). I also don't expect the Cards to put all their eggs in his basket after this season--I'd like to see them get a kid in the first couple rounds in the draft or get a proven vet via FA or trade in the offseason. (If they go the route of drafting someone, I'd guess that either Hall has proven to be at least an adequate fill-in/place-holder, because 3 QBs on the roster with a total of 2 years experience would be...well, at this point it sounds like it would be a very cardinals thing to do).

I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me on Max Hall--yet. But the evidence is starting to build, including the lack of the running game when he's in the game and even when the defense is playing prevent. That was my worry with Hall even before he was inserted in the game. As I said, I've been here the whole time, I'll wait for everyone to catch up. Like with Thomas Jones. Like with Levi Brown.

Sure they do. I just think it's WAY too early to tell if he stinks or not.

That's fine. I'll be here waiting when y'all are ready to admit that I was right. I don't want to be right, but I didn't see anything yesterday to change my mind about Max Hall's noodle arm, and I'm sure there aren't many (any?) teams in the NFL who are kicking themselves that they didn't offer Max Hall $6K instead of $5K to join their team.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

BIM: take over the REINS (as in horse reins) not REIGNS (as in Queen Elizabeth 11 reigns over Great Britain and the Commonwealth)