If Q Gone, what about . . .

[Griffin]

From PortlandTribune
http://www.portlandtribune.com/archview.cgi?id=25052

Portland is at a stalemate in negotiations with restricted free agent Darius Miles, who wants a long-term deal. If the L.A. Clippers match Phoenix’s offer sheet to Quentin Richardson, expect the Suns to join the list of teams interested in the small forward.

Don't know who their source is, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Suns did make a run at Miles. All the more reason to hope Clippers won't match.

 

[George O'Brien]

Scottsman tells us that he actually talked D'Antoni the other night. Mike is still hopeful that they will get Q and then will sign the Tractor, but otherwise they will go after Ostertag if the Clippers match.

All the reports from Utah are that Ostertag will not be returning to the Jazz. His name has not been brought up lately, which suggests maybe he's waiting to do a deal with the Suns.

BTW, Hoopshype has Przybilla listed as an RFA by the Hawks, which means they gave him a qualifying offer. I thought the Hawks might have been a possible suitor for Ostertag, but it looks like they decided to go with the younger Przybilla.

My guess is that Ostertag figures that he could get a lot of iminutes with the Suns. Even if he plays for less money, it would give him a chance to prove he can still play and get more money in the future. I don't think it is totally impossible that he might do a one year veteran minimum deal if the Suns sign Q.

 

[F-Dog]

My guess is that Ostertag figures that he could get a lot of iminutes with the Suns. Even if he plays for less money, it would give him a chance to prove he can still play and get more money in the future. I don't think it is totally impossible that he might do a one year veteran minimum deal if the Suns sign Q.

I think it is.

If the Suns sign Ostertag, they should still have enough money to go after a third player. That's the main consolation I'm taking right now from their infatuation with him.


As for Portland, my guess is what they'd really like is for Miles to sign the qualifying offer and play one more year for them. That way, they'd still have all of their cap room in 2005.


Isiah Thomas doesn't really have much choice as to his direction--the Knicks' only asset at this point is their nearly-unlimited budget. If he comes out of this offseason with both Dampier and Jamal Crawford, he'll have done an outstanding job IMO.

 

[George O'Brien]

Isiah Thomas doesn't really have much choice as to his direction--the Knicks' only asset at this point is their nearly-unlimited budget. If he comes out of this offseason with both Dampier and Jamal Crawford, he'll have done an outstanding job IMO.

The amazing part is that it would be a huge accomplishment and they would still not be any better than fourth best in the East at over $100 million as far as the eye can see.

 

[JCSunsfan]

How much would Phoenix have left in caproom, if Clippers match? New Jersey has been interested in sending Ason Kidd to a team with capspace, perhaps a 3-way: sending Kidd to ____ and Suns trading parts (capspace, Eisley, Draft rights to Vujanic, Chicago Draft pick, Cabarkapa, Lampe, or Voskuhl etc.) Not sure what Kidd would fetch though in a trade??

I'll bite on this one. How about a 3 way between Portland/Phoenix/NJ. Let's NJ gets Stoudamire, Lampe and Chicago's pick. Portland gets Kidd. Phoenix gets Ratliff.

Just trying to make this up as I go. I have no idea about cap considerations, but it looks like it might be close. Of course a straight, Ratliff and Stoudamire for Kidd trade might be just as appealing. We'd probably have to take a bad contract from NJ to make this go.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'll bite on this one. How about a 3 way between Portland/Phoenix/NJ. Let's NJ gets Stoudamire, Lampe and Chicago's pick. Portland gets Kidd. Phoenix gets Ratliff.

Just trying to make this up as I go. I have no idea about cap considerations, but it looks like it might be close. Of course a straight, Ratliff and Stoudamire for Kidd trade might be just as appealing. We'd probably have to take a bad contract from NJ to make this go.

you mean damon stoudamire, right? are you crazy? kidd's value is still a lot greater than stoudamire, lampe, and a first rounder.

now portland would deal stoudamire and ratliff in a second for kidd. but we'd have to add a LOT more to get the nets to bite in this scenario.

 

[George O'Brien]

you mean damon stoudamire, right? are you crazy? kidd's value is still a lot greater than stoudamire, lampe, and a first rounder.

now portland would deal stoudamire and ratliff in a second for kidd. but we'd have to add a LOT more to get the nets to bite in this scenario.

Kidd could get moved in a salary dump, but I can't see Portland thinking about it until after his latest operation is finished and he is clearly recovered.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Kidd could get moved in a salary dump, but I can't see Portland thinking about it until after his latest operation is finished and he is clearly recovered.

i agree it's possible he'll be traded, but not for the garbage that was listed in that potential three-way trade. he's still got a hell of a lot more value than THAT around the league.

 

[JCSunsfan]

you mean damon stoudamire, right? are you crazy? kidd's value is still a lot greater than stoudamire, lampe, and a first rounder.

now portland would deal stoudamire and ratliff in a second for kidd. but we'd have to add a LOT more to get the nets to bite in this scenario.

I don't think so. I might be wrong, but here are my reasons.

1. Jason Kidd is getting older, and his style of play does not make for a long career.

2. He is coming off of his 3rd knee surgury--a microfracture surgury which usually indicates and arthritic condition.

3. His contract is long and large.

4. Most importantly, indications are that he WANTS to be traded. When a player wants out, it is amazing how little a team gets for him. Who would have dreamed Shaq would be dealt for a package that did not include even one all-star, or the other teams best player.

5. Reports are that Kidd has been shopped to nearly every team in the league, yet there is no real buzz going on about him. Could it be that league GM's are more in tune with Kidd's condition than we are?

I could be wrong about this, and if this were 9 months ago, I would be thinking very differently. But I believe Kidd's stock has dropped significantly.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't think so. I might be wrong, but here are my reasons.

1. Jason Kidd is getting older, and his style of play does not make for a long career.

2. He is coming off of his 3rd knee surgury--a microfracture surgury which usually indicates and arthritic condition.

3. His contract is long and large.

4. Most importantly, indications are that he WANTS to be traded. When a player wants out, it is amazing how little a team gets for him. Who would have dreamed Shaq would be dealt for a package that did not include even one all-star, or the other teams best player.

5. Reports are that Kidd has been shopped to nearly every team in the league, yet there is no real buzz going on about him. Could it be that league GM's are more in tune with Kidd's condition than we are?

I could be wrong about this, and if this were 9 months ago, I would be thinking very differently. But I believe Kidd's stock has dropped significantly.

for all the reasons you state (other than the wanting out part - you cannot compare him to shaq. there is no kobe to appease on the nets, in fact, if anything, they would want to appease jefferson by NOT trading kidd, also, kidd's contract is longer - shaq has an opt out after this year - meaning that they are in danger of losing him after a year w/o compensation, which the lakers would have been) i agree that his value has shrunk, just not as ridiculously low as a washed up troubled pg, an unknown first round pick and a second rounder who has yet to show the "potential" that everyone on this board drools about. i think you are WAY undervaluing kidd.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The NBA has become interesting in the way it values players. It seems this is the formula.


+ Potential
+ Production
+ Ability to fill a need
+ talent
+ size (bigger is more desirable)
+ market conditions (nutso FA market for example)
- contract $
- contract term

= trade value

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The NBA has become interesting in the way it values players. It seems this is the formula.


+ Potential
+ Production
+ Ability to fill a need
+ talent
+ size (bigger is more desirable)
+ market conditions (nutso FA market for example)
- contract $
- contract term

= trade value

aren't "potential" and "talent" kinda the same thing?

i'd also add:

- headcase/attitude problems/drug/injury concerns

 

[jbeecham]

aren't "potential" and "talent" kinda the same thing?

i'd also add:

- headcase/attitude problems/drug/injury concerns

Unless the team is Portland, then it's:

+ headcase/attitude problems/drug/injury concerns

 

[George O'Brien]

aren't "potential" and "talent" kinda the same thing?

Interesting question. I would have made the categories "athleticism" and "skills", which I see as more descriptive. Usually "potential" just means the guy can jump through the roof or he is really tall - but a guy who shoots well or passes well already has a talent. But you need a talent to have potential, don't you?

 

[scotsman13]

Unless the team is Portland, then it's:

+ headcase/attitude problems/drug/injury concerns

hehe isnt that the truth? think of it this way. the blazer already have a bad name for drugs and problem player so what do they draft? a player with a lot of potenial and a drug problem that he states he is trying to recover from.
quntel woods comes in and gets busted for drugs his first year. so the next year they promise their fans they are going to clean up their image and what happens? they draft a player named outlaw. and to top this off their hope and future zack randolph gets busted for drugs.

 

[George O'Brien]

hehe isnt that the truth? think of it this way. the blazer already have a bad name for drugs and problem player so what do they draft? a player with a lot of potenial and a drug problem that he states he is trying to recover from.
quntel woods comes in and gets busted for drugs his first year. so the next year they promise their fans they are going to clean up their image and what happens? they draft a player named outlaw. and to top this off their hope and future zack randolph gets busted for drugs.

You'd think with their payroll they could afford better babysitters.

The Suns get slammed for being so cautious about the type of guys they get, but the Blazers are a good example of what happens to teams that aren't.