If this is the roster where do we stand?

[Phrazbit]

Saric is slow and lumbering and not a great rim defender. JaVale wasn’t lighting quick either but he protected the rim and there are stretches where he just looked great offensively. There is no way we are better replacing JaVale with Saric and Jock. You think Jock is going to see a ton of court time? I don’t. He is going to play the Biz role and only come in when someone is in foul trouble (assuming Saric can play). There isn’t enough minutes for Saric and Jock which means you are replacing Saric for McGee. Clearly there is a defensive difference there.

I think people forget how weak he is on defense and how sometimes he struggles to guard any position on the floor. It was his knock before he got here. He was brought here to be a point forward and stretch the court. Not defend.

With Saric as the leader of our bench we had one of the most productive benches in the league in 2021. Will we defend the rim as well? No, but I think if Saric is healthy the bench will be way more self reliant than what we saw this year, when they basically couldn't do anything on offense unless Booker or Paul were rotated in with them.

And don't forget Biz didn't show up until the season was 2/3rds over. I think he alone can replace much of what McGee did.

 

[Covert Rain]

With Saric as the leader of our bench we had one of the most productive benches in the league in 2021. Will we defend the rim as well? No, but I think if Saric is healthy the bench will be way more self reliant than what we saw this year, when they basically couldn't do anything on offense unless Booker or Paul were rotated in with them.

And don't forget Biz didn't show up until the season was 2/3rds over. I think he alone can replace much of what McGee did.

When Ayton went to the bench it was a revolving door that year. It’s the entire reason we got McGee and Biz. One of the reasons why this team cruised in the regular season this year is because we played defense. Plus, it’s a major IF in terms of Saric being healthy and returning to form. Second, if you are relying on Saric to anchor our bench offensively or defensively I am going to call it now. We won’t sniff the finals IMO. We MUST get better at the PF spot and back PG spot if we don’t get KD.

 

[Phrazbit]

When Ayton went to the bench it was a revolving door that year. It’s the entire reason we got McGee and Biz. One of the reasons why this team cruised in the regular season this year is because we played defense. Plus, it’s a major IF in terms of Saric being healthy and returning to form. Second, if you are relying on Saric to anchor our bench offensively or defensively I am going to call it now. We won’t sniff the finals.

I'm not relying on him to do anything, I am saying that it's very likely the bench as a unit will be better next year than it was last year.

Furthermore, if we are RELYING on the bench, we won't sniff the finals. Its the starters having a collective melt down that ended the season.

 

[SirStefan32]

So, we are talking about a backup big here. If someone could stay in front of quicker guys, stop bigger guys from posting them up, block shots, shoot threes and score inside, they would be an all-star, not a backup big. McGee checked a few boxes- he was able to get to the rim, grab rebounds, dunk the ball, block shots, play good interior defense. He couldn't guard anyone on the perimeter, couldn't shoot, or facilitate. Dario gives you a different look- he can facilitate, and he can shoot. He is big enough to deal with backup bigs in the paint. He isn't gonna be flying in for dunks and offensive put-backs, he is not going to be chasing fours around the perimeter.

We are talking about backup bigs here. None of them are going to be able to do all the things. If they could, they wouldn't be backups.
This team has bigger issues to worry about- mainly the ability to score when Paul is pressured and Booker doubled on every possession (in other words, what happened against New Orleans and Dallas last season, and against the Bucks the year before.) You could literally bring McGee back, add Saric, throw in Frank for good measure, keep Biz and Jock, and you'd still have the same problem. They need a Lou Williams, or an Eric Gordon, or a Jamal Crawford from ten years ago. Someone has to be able to bring the ball up the floor when Paul is pressured, and score and/ or facilitate when Booker is doubled.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm not relying on him to do anything, I am saying that it's very likely the bench as a unit will be better next year than it was last year.

Furthermore, if we are RELYING on the bench, we won't sniff the finals. Its the starters having a collective melt down that ended the season.

Sounded like you were depending on him to be a “leader” on the bench. Assuming we don’t get KD? We need to package Saric and possibly other pieces to shore up at least either the back up PG or PF position. I would prefer back up PG at this point to keep the offense from stalling out and giving CP3 more rest. I would settle for another legit big who plays on both ends. Don’t need that person to be a prolific scorer or defender but at least competent on both ends.

 

[Phrazbit]

Sounded like you were depending on him to be a “leader” on the bench. Assuming we don’t get KD? We need to package Saric and possibly other pieces to shore up at least either the back up PG or PF position. I would prefer back up PG at this point to keep the offense from stalling out and giving CP3 more rest. I would settle for another legit big who plays on both ends. Don’t need that person to be a prolific scorer or defender but at least competent on both ends.

I don't see the Suns swinging a trade that drains assets until they know that Durant and the Nets are back in bed together for the long term. So I think we will get a few months of games to see if Saric can make it back, if Biz can handle a larger roll and if Cam Payne can rediscover his form.

We might chuck our exemption at someone but that is all I see us doing in the near future.

Well... unless KD forces the issue.

I'm fine with that anyway. The team looks plenty deep. Wait to see what holes actually exist before trying to fill them.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't see the Suns swinging a trade that drains assets until they know that Durant and the Nets are back in bed together for the long term. So I think we will get a few months of games to see if Saric can make it back, if Biz can handle a larger roll and if Cam Payne can rediscover his form.

We might chuck our exemption at someone but that is all I see us doing in the near future.

Well... unless KD forces the issue.

I'm fine with that anyway. The team looks plenty deep. Wait to see what holes actually exist before trying to fill them.

I said if the Suns don’t get KD. Meaning they are dropping out of it. They can’t wait forever. If we don’t get KD ad don’t do better than we have now? We are not going anywhere. The Suns if we are out of the KD sweepstakes have to make more moves IMO.

 

[Phrazbit]

I said if the Suns don’t get KD. Meaning they are dropping out of it. They can’t wait forever. If we don’t get KD ad don’t do better than we have now? We are not going anywhere. The Suns if we are out of the KD sweepstakes have to make more moves IMO.

Well, I don't see them dropping out of it until either Miami snags him, he declares he doesn't want a trade anymore or we're getting near the trade deadline.

So... hold onto your butt.

And I do think we're going somewhere. This roster is easily good enough to be one of the top 3 seeds. They will have a better idea of what they need to do to push it over the top as they get into the season.

 

[Covert Rain]

Well, I don't see them dropping out of it until either Miami snags him, he declares he doesn't want a trade anymore or we're getting near the trade deadline.

So... hold onto your butt.

And I do think we're going somewhere. This roster is easily good enough to be one of the top 3 seeds. They will have a better idea of what they need to do to push it over the top as they get into the season.

I do. I think the Suns are smart enough to know they can’t hold out for KD forever. JJ is smarter than that. He isn’t going to wait around for the Nets forever. Especially, if there is deal to be had go upgraded his roster with a very good player. This roster is worse while other teams have gotten better. I am not saying we don’t have a good team but it won’t be enough as is IMO.

 

[Phrazbit]

I do. I think the Suns are smart enough to know they can’t hold out for KD forever. JJ is smarter than that. He isn’t going to wait around for the Nets forever. Especially, if there is deal to be had go upgraded his roster with a very good player. This roster is worse while other teams have gotten better. I am not saying we don’t have a good team but it won’t be enough as is IMO.

I think the Suns are as good, possibly better than they were last year as is. Just from the continued evolution of the many mid-20s aged studs on the team we should improve. I don't see us hitting 64 wins again though, they know they peaked at the wrong time. I think we will see a lot more varied rotations and some games where big guys get rested.

As for the other big teams...

Clippers and Nuggets might eek up the ladder by getting healthy.

Warriors bench has been eaten into. Jazz are toast, Mavs got worse.

We'll be in the mix for a top seed.

 

[Chaplin]

Second, if you are relying on Saric to anchor our bench offensively or defensively I am going to call it now. We won’t sniff the finals IMO.

Funny you say that because the last time he DID, we made the Finals!

And a huge reason we lost in the Finals is because he was injured in Game 1.

 

[Hoop Head]

When Ayton went to the bench it was a revolving door that year. It’s the entire reason we got McGee and Biz. One of the reasons why this team cruised in the regular season this year is because we played defense. Plus, it’s a major IF in terms of Saric being healthy and returning to form. Second, if you are relying on Saric to anchor our bench offensively or defensively I am going to call it now. We won’t sniff the finals IMO. We MUST get better at the PF spot and back PG spot if we don’t get KD.

I believe Saric will be 100% when the season starts. He's planning on playing with his national team this summer to help dust off some cobwebs which will help. There is still training camp and preseason to help him settle back in as well.

He was never a player who relied on his athleticism to produce so I'm not concerned with his health provided the trainers and doctors have cleared him, which they did in the playoffs as he was practicing with the team.

As far as anchoring the bench, I don't think he'll be the focal point or anchor of the 2nd unit at all. He'll be another cog in that unit that will help keep it running rather than allowing it to get bogged down like we saw happen late last year. He knows his role and performs it very well. Plus we actually have an NBA quality big in Biz who can play with him if we face a big team like Milwaukee, for example.

He's not an ideal 6th man but he's very good at that role and will give us some size at PF off the bench as well as the ability to play some small ball Center as well, which we didn't have last season.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think people saying the mavs are worse is wishful thinking. They lost a good piece in Brunson, but they are getting hardaway back. Is it a wash? No. But it lessens that blow considerably. Then they added woods and mcgee. Are those two world beaters? No, but they make that Dallas team a LOT more versatile. There won’t be many lineups that they can’t counter. They are likely better this season than last unless there are chemistry issues.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I like our chances of being better this season but sure, it could go the other way. When people are involved, the sum of the parts rarely equals the whole.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think people saying the mavs are worse is wishful thinking. They lost a good piece in Brunson, but they are getting hardaway back. Is it a wash? No. But it lessens that blow considerably. Then they added woods and mcgee. Are those two world beaters? No, but they make that Dallas team a LOT more versatile. There won’t be many lineups that they can’t counter. They are likely better this season than last unless there are chemistry issues.

I'm surprised the Mavericks played as well as they did without Tim Hardaway Jr.

He was a significant piece of their team.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think people saying the mavs are worse is wishful thinking. They lost a good piece in Brunson, but they are getting hardaway back. Is it a wash? No. But it lessens that blow considerably. Then they added woods and mcgee. Are those two world beaters? No, but they make that Dallas team a LOT more versatile. There won’t be many lineups that they can’t counter. They are likely better this season than last unless there are chemistry issues.

Completely agree. The Mavs are better IMO even without Brunson or at least a push. They relied heavily on jump shooting. Adding Woods and McGee both completely transforms their front court and shores up what many said was the weakest aspect of the team. Most teams will trade higher percentage play for jump shots. It makes the Mavs less one dimensional. It's funny how some people are putting all of this focus on Saric getting healthy but ignoring Hardway being healthy which would lessen the blow of Brunson. He was averaging 14.2 PPG before injury.

 

[SirStefan32]

To be fair, Mavs did not beat the Suns this year. Suns beat themselves. Barring a meltdown like we say this year, Suns take that series 4-1 every time. Woods, McGee, and Hardaway do not change that, in my opinion.

 

[Covert Rain]

To be fair, Mavs did not beat the Suns this year. Suns beat themselves. Barring a meltdown like we say this year, Suns take that series 4-1 every time. Woods, McGee, and Hardaway do not change that, in my opinion.

Meh. The Mavs could use the same line on the games they lost to the Suns. Give the Mavs credit, they did some things really well in the series. The only game I could buy that argument for is Game 7 and even then, there is no guarantee the Suns win even if they show up. That's why there are 7 games in a series to ensure that anomaly type games don't decide who moves on. The playoffs are just different than the regular season. The Suns team that we had in the playoffs was not the regular season team. Even if we get by Dallas we were not winning it all. Golden State would have smoked us. The team just didn't look good right before the playoffs and was sporadic at best in the playoffs.

 

[Mainstreet]

They need a Lou Williams, or an Eric Gordon, or a Jamal Crawford from ten years ago. Someone has to be able to bring the ball up the floor when Paul is pressured, and score and/ or facilitate when Booker is doubled.

If there was only one position on the Suns that could be fixed, this is it.

Suns need a cold blooded shooter and play maker that Monty will play.

Aaron Holiday brought some of those qualities to the Suns but he couldn't get consistent minutes.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Dario gives you a different look- he can facilitate, and he can shoot. He is big enough to deal with backup bigs in the paint. He isn't gonna be flying in for dunks and offensive put-backs, he is not going to be chasing fours around the perimeter.

I'm excited that Dario is coming back. He can punish smaller players more effectively, and make teams pay for running out long and skinny guys. I didn't like him as a starter, but as a facilitator on the 2nd unit, he has a unique skill set.

This team has bigger issues to worry about- mainly the ability to score when Paul is pressured and Booker doubled on every possession (in other words, what happened against New Orleans and Dallas last season, and against the Bucks the year before.) You could literally bring McGee back, add Saric, throw in Frank for good measure, keep Biz and Jock, and you'd still have the same problem. They need a Lou Williams, or an Eric Gordon, or a Jamal Crawford from ten years ago. Someone has to be able to bring the ball up the floor when Paul is pressured, and score and/ or facilitate when Booker is doubled.

Say it loud for the people in the back! As soon as Cam Payne went from a dangerous weapon to unplayable, our offense was screwed. Like with Javale, the league has figured out what Cam does, and he better be figuring out some sort of counter, because his ineffectiveness made both Booker and Paul sitting ducks for doubles.

It was incredibly stupid not to give up a first for Gordon last trade deadline, and it would be a big mistake not to give up a first to get a Gordon/Clarkson type player.

 

[Covert Rain]

It was incredibly stupid not to give up a first for Gordon last trade deadline, and it would be a big mistake not to give up a first to get a Gordon/Clarkson type player.

I said it at the time but I thought Gordon would put us over the top for a title. I wanted the Suns to make a move for him.

 

[elindholm]

Any interest in Avery Bradley? Part of the MLE?

 

[Mainstreet]

Say it loud for the people in the back! As soon as Cam Payne went from a dangerous weapon to unplayable, our offense was screwed.

This statement needs to stand alone because it describes what happened to the Suns offense in a nutshell.

 

[Proximo]

This statement needs to stand alone because it describes what happened to the Suns offense in a nutshell.

It was cam payne, and cam johnson. After he came back from his injury he never really got it going again.

 

[Covert Rain]

This statement needs to stand alone because it describes what happened to the Suns offense in a nutshell.

It wasn't just his lack of points either. He was turning the ball over, couldn't guard anybody and his 3-point shooting fell off a cliff. It's like someone got in his ear and reminded him he couldn't stick in the NBA not that long ago. He just looked like a scrub. At one point in the playoffs he had more turnovers than assists and had the worst +/- ratio of any guard in the playoffs. Unplayable doesn't begin to describe it.