If you thought you were excited about Shaq before....

[sLapzsHaQ]

I guess I am going to love more the new Shaq..

 

[TucsonDevil]

I thought this was funny...

"Duncan was asked if he was honored that so many teams are making major moves because of him. 'No, I'm not honored in any way. I'm a little [ticked] off,' Duncan said, jokingly."

 

[Griffin]

There is one more potential reason for this trade that needs to be kept in perspective: if the Suns did not acquire Shaq, someone else in the West (possibly Dallas) might have. I don't know how big of a motivating factor that actually was, but I am sure it contributed to the decision. If you listen to Kerr during the press conference yesterday, he even hints at that. If Dallas acquired Shaq, it would be very difficult for us to match up with them. Dampier alone has given us enough problems in the past.

 

[devilalum]

One thing about rebounding that nobody seems to get is that there is approximately the same number of rebounds pulled down by every team every night in every game. Even if you are the worst rebounding team in the league somebody is getting 7 or 8 rebounds a game.

Total team rebounds ranges from 45.2-38.3. The Suns are 40.6 a game.

 

[devilalum]

There is one more potential reason for this trade that needs to be kept in perspective: if the Suns did not acquire Shaq, someone else in the West (possibly Dallas) might have. I don't know how big of a motivating factor that actually was, but I am sure it contributed to the decision. If you listen to Kerr during the press conference yesterday, he even hints at that. If Dallas acquired Shaq, it would be very difficult for us to match up with them. Dampier alone has given us enough problems in the past.

Its so funny how every sports writer in the world has a take on this trade and they are so conflicted. One guy writes that Marc Cuban is laughing about the Suns getting Shaq while another says that Cuban was desperately trying to get him.

As for Dampier, watching him abuse the Suns on the boards earlier this season made me sick to my stomach. That guy is awful.

 

[mojorizen7]

We outboarded them period, tyson or no tyson, the still had a bunch of big ass guys in their grabbing boards. And we out rebounded them without Marion and no Shaq, they played hard and I think we will continue to see this as the chemistry seems to be better already.[/quote]

 

[devilalum]

So Marion was responsible for our poor rebounding.... brilliant! semi

This is what I was getting at:

Eddie Johnson: The Suns are the worst defensive rebounding team in the league because they could not command space. Shaq will allow Amare, Grant Hill, Raja Bell, Boris Diaw, etcetera, to be better rebounders because he will eat up space and punish offensive rebounders with long outlet passes – thus allowing Nash and Leandro Barbosa to leak out.

Everybody has always said, "Marion is a GREAT rebounder FOR HIS SIZE."
He's just not big enough to block out all the guys that kill us.

 

[Andrew]

Shaq will ignite the Suns into a championship.

 

[AsUdUdE]

WHY DOES everyone continue to think that the loss of Marion will make us a Worse Rebounding team???


Please, will someone tell me of a time they remember Marion actually boxing out at the defensive end...

The reason we were at the bottom of the league in rebounding is not because we have players who don't rebound, its because Marion got all his rebounds by jumping higher than everyone..

This was a problem when he wasn't in position, because his man could simply go around him and get the offensive rebound....

With Shaq in the lane, HE will box out, even if he doesn't get the rebounds, we as a team, will be MUCH improved!

 

[Arizona's Finest]

There is one more potential reason for this trade that needs to be kept in perspective: if the Suns did not acquire Shaq, someone else in the West (possibly Dallas) might have. I don't know how big of a motivating factor that actually was, but I am sure it contributed to the decision. If you listen to Kerr during the press conference yesterday, he even hints at that. If Dallas acquired Shaq, it would be very difficult for us to match up with them. Dampier alone has given us enough problems in the past.

Another important point that seems to skate below the periphery. What we have to realize is that on a national level, everyone is looking at this from a "Shaqs not good anymore on the Heat - how could he possibly be any good on the Suns" and really doesn't understand our team or circumstances at all.

You know what else isn't getting enough attention? That Marion was half a$$ing his way through the season until he could get out this year or next. Its pretty obvious he wasn't commited and I think he was killing team morale with his transparent effort.

The more i look into it, the more i realize the Suns HAD to make this deal. Now the Suns will be playing like they did in 04. When it was all new and they had to prove themselves.

I don't expect people who "superficially" follow our team to understand. Hell I would have been yuking it up if another team (other then Dallas) would have acquired Shaq too.

But the more i read the more I like.

 

[devilalum]

The last time the Suns played the Sonics with Marion they were outrebounded 53-49 in a close win.

Last night they were outrebounded 54-47 in a close win.

When Shaq plays the Suns will be a better rebounding team.

 

[arwillan]

OMG you're right, we did!
Good game that would have been perfect if we won.

the hornets were without chandler, though

 

[Joe Mama]

WHY DOES everyone continue to think that the loss of Marion will make us a Worse Rebounding team???


Please, will someone tell me of a time they remember Marion actually boxing out at the defensive end...

The reason we were at the bottom of the league in rebounding is not because we have players who don't rebound, its because Marion got all his rebounds by jumping higher than everyone..

This was a problem when he wasn't in position, because his man could simply go around him and get the offensive rebound....

With Shaq in the lane, HE will box out, even if he doesn't get the rebounds, we as a team, will be MUCH improved!

I'm sorry, but the problem with the Phoenix Suns rebounding was not Shawn Marion. There were three problems with the Phoenix Suns rebounding.

1. There were just too damn small. Every Phoenix Suns player was trying to rebound against somebody bigger than them. Countless were the times when a bigger player from the other team would just tip the ball away from his Phoenix Suns counterpart.

2. I love the running game, but without Kurt Thomas there were just far too many times when it was a forward and a guard or two trying to get the rebounds with the rest of the team headed down the court.

3. Amare Stoudemire, not Shawn Marion is one of the worst frontcourt players I have seen in the NBA when it comes to rebounding and defensive fundamentals. He just does not understand the concept of boxing out. He is almost always just standing under the basket waiting for the ball to come down to him. I've been critical of Shawn Marion over the years were certain things he is just not very good at, but I really can't believe anybody would blame the Phoenix Suns rebounding problems on him.

One last thing... I keep reading and hearing that Shawn Marion was dogging it this year. I think that during certain times he has been unwilling to engage himself in the offense. I could easily see him doing this because he was fed up with his role in the offense which was almost entirely as a garbage man and fast-break player with the exception of a few called plays.

Defensively I actually thought this was his best season so far. There have been times where I thought that Shawn Marion was vastly overrated as a defender. I've always thought he was a good defender but not great. This season I thought he was playing very good defense. I still think his ability to guard all five positions is overrated because at least two of those positions he cannot even come close to guarding by himself. And a good number of the small forwards in the league can easily kill him in the post.

There's my $.02.

Joe

 

[AsUdUdE]

I'm sorry, but the problem with the Phoenix Suns rebounding was not Shawn Marion. There were three problems with the Phoenix Suns rebounding.

1. There were just too damn small. Every Phoenix Suns player was trying to rebound against somebody bigger than them. Countless were the times when a bigger player from the other team would just tip the ball away from his Phoenix Suns counterpart.

2. I love the running game, but without Kurt Thomas there were just far too many times when it was a forward and a guard or two trying to get the rebounds with the rest of the team headed down the court.

3. Amare Stoudemire, not Shawn Marion is one of the worst frontcourt players I have seen in the NBA when it comes to rebounding and defensive fundamentals. He just does not understand the concept of boxing out. He is almost always just standing under the basket waiting for the ball to come down to him. I've been critical of Shawn Marion over the years were certain things he is just not very good at, but I really can't believe anybody would blame the Phoenix Suns rebounding problems on him.

One last thing... I keep reading and hearing that Shawn Marion was dogging it this year. I think that during certain times he has been unwilling to engage himself in the offense. I could easily see him doing this because he was fed up with his role in the offense which was almost entirely as a garbage man and fast-break player with the exception of a few called plays.

Defensively I actually thought this was his best season so far. There have been times where I thought that Shawn Marion was vastly overrated as a defender. I've always thought he was a good defender but not great. This season I thought he was playing very good defense. I still think his ability to guard all five positions is overrated because at least two of those positions he cannot even come close to guarding by himself. And a good number of the small forwards in the league can easily kill him in the post.

There's my $.02.

Joe

Joe Mama... I agree with 99.9% of your posts, but I have to disagree with ya on Marion.. while I will totally agree Marion was certainly not ALL or MOST of the Suns problems... I think his lack of Boxing out areas heavily contributed in giving up soo many offensive rebounds... Which can KILL a team especially in the playoffs...

But I think a more important part, is going to be, how Amare starts to play now that Shaq is here... I think it will raise his game, and as a whole we will be a MUCH better rebounding team.. obsviously, but also a much more disicplined team as far as defense and boxing out, and assignments during a game.. IMO...

 

[AceP]

Versatility is not always a good thing. Able to do many things also means do none of them in a really high level. Marion is overrated, both his offense and defence. He lacks of basketball skill in offense end. He can defend all 5 positions but can not lock down at any of them.

Marion's rebound number is very impressive, I respect him a lot because of that, he really worked hard, jump off ground for every rebounding opportunity. But people understand basketball knows we'll do better with Shaq.

Don't know why some experts keeps saying Shaq can not rebound any more, that's plain ridiculous. Shaq still gets 7.8 rebounds in just 28 minutes. It is 13.1 rebounds per 48 minutes, actually better than Marion's 13!

They had a problem keeping Shaq out of foul trouble in Miami, because of their non-existence perimeter defence. I followed every game of the Heat this year. Every G/F scorer had a season high or even career high on the Heat! Every single one of them! Shaq gave fouls to cover failure of Jwill, Wade, Wright, Ricky Davis, who always got blown by. Bell, Hill, even Diaw r much better perimeter defender here. I expect Shaq to stay on floor longer, probably over 30 mpg, produce close to 10 rpg.

Shaq also makes his teammates better. It's been said that Amare's rebound will drop playing with Shaq. I just don't agree. Shaq takes a lot of space down the post and muscle opponent big men out all the time, doing that he also might lose position. There r many easy rebounds for his teammates to collect. Heat PF, Haslem, only 6-8, no leaping ability, no long arm, always grab 10 rebounds a game alongside Shaq. Don't be surprised to see Amare reach 10-11 rpg!

 

[BeeBeard]

From NBA.com
14-year NBA career… has averaged 26.3 points, 11.8 rebounds, 2.8 assists, 2.53 blocks, 0.66 steals and 37.0 minutes

…among active players he ranks first in points, field goals made, field goal percentage, free throws made, free throws attempted and offensive rebounds, second in scoring average, defensive rebounds, total rebounds, blocked shots and field goals attempted...

…has grabbed double-figure rebounds on 664 occasions (70.6 percent of his games), including 35 games with 20-or-more rebounds… his longest streak of consecutive games grabbing double-figure rebounds is 18 and was accomplished twice...
__________________________________________

The sentence "Shaq has never been a great rebounder" is probably one of the most idiotic basketball related sentences you could possibly write or say. Can anybody think of something more foolish?

"Most people don't realize that Shaq is only 5'10" tall."

 

[ambchang_]

Amare boxes out even less than Marion.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Amare boxes out even less than Marion.

Can we just get over the fact that Amare is not about to morph into Tim Duncan?

You know what Amare is? The most gifted offensive forward not named Lebron. I'll take that.

 

[Captain America]

WHY DOES everyone continue to think that the loss of Marion will make us a Worse Rebounding team???


Please, will someone tell me of a time they remember Marion actually boxing out at the defensive end...

The reason we were at the bottom of the league in rebounding is not because we have players who don't rebound, its because Marion got all his rebounds by jumping higher than everyone..

This was a problem when he wasn't in position, because his man could simply go around him and get the offensive rebound....

With Shaq in the lane, HE will box out, even if he doesn't get the rebounds, we as a team, will be MUCH improved!

Not to mention that With a 300+ pound guy leaning on you to box you out, it is much harder to jump. Especially late in games because that will eventually wear them down.

 

[slinslin]

Amare boxes out even less than Marion.

No and thats why Amare has a higher rebounding rate than Marion and even more dramatic difference in the playoffs.

Marion is great at getting rebounds that would be ours anyway, he's always been a stat stuffer which made his statistics look a lot better than the actual impact he had on the court.

 

[nowagimp]

Not to mention that With a 300+ pound guy leaning on you to box you out, it is much harder to jump. Especially late in games because that will eventually wear them down.

Yeah, no kidding, everyone will be leaning against shaq on offense to limit his position and he will be leaning on them. That is when amare will be unleashed, when he cant be the physical focus of the defense. I also look forward to Diaw having more room to do damage as the defense focuses on shaq inside. In my mind, I can see Diaw feeding shaq after a move from the elbow, an over the top pass to the diesel, sick!

 

[ambchang_]

Can we just get over the fact that Amare is not about to morph into Tim Duncan?

You know what Amare is? The most gifted offensive forward not named Lebron. I'll take that.

I was simply at a loss at why people are so ready to grill non-boxing out Marion, and ready to give a non-boxing out Stoudemire a free pass (other than the fact that one was traded and the other wasn't).

Is Amare the most gifted offensive forward outside of Lebron? I would say that he is a fantastic finisher, but he is not that great creating offense, and he can't pass that well. At this point, Carmelo Anthony, Caron Butler, Kevin Durant, Carlos Boozer, Chris Bosh, and Dirk Nowitzki are all similar or better offensive players than Amare.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I was simply at a loss at why people are so ready to grill non-boxing out Marion, and ready to give a non-boxing out Stoudemire a free pass (other than the fact that one was traded and the other wasn't).

Is Amare the most gifted offensive forward outside of Lebron? I would say that he is a fantastic finisher, but he is not that great creating offense, and he can't pass that well. At this point, Carmelo Anthony, Caron Butler, Kevin Durant, Carlos Boozer, Chris Bosh, and Dirk Nowitzki are all similar or better offensive players than Amare.

Wow - You can have every single one of those guys. I wouldn't want shot obssessed Carmelo, not even in the same Universe Butler, 4/18 a game Durant, Can't jump Boozer, too skinny jump shooting Bosh, and mentally weak 3 point line Nowitzki over my guy.

Geez you could have at least said Tim Duncan

 

[nashman]

Originally Posted by ambchang_
I was simply at a loss at why people are so ready to grill non-boxing out Marion, and ready to give a non-boxing out Stoudemire a free pass (other than the fact that one was traded and the other wasn't).

Is Amare the most gifted offensive forward outside of Lebron? I would say that he is a fantastic finisher, but he is not that great creating offense, and he can't pass that well. At this point, Carmelo Anthony, Caron Butler, Kevin Durant, Carlos Boozer, Chris Bosh, and Dirk Nowitzki are all similar or better offensive players than Amare.

Wow! Well your new but that post is just crazy. Amare is better than every player you listed except maybe Dirk, but thats even questionable as Dirk is soft. I take Amare over every player in a heartbeat. And as AZfinest said you should have at least but the best PF Duncan in your argument. One of the craziest posts I have ever seen.

 

[nowagimp]

I was simply at a loss at why people are so ready to grill non-boxing out Marion, and ready to give a non-boxing out Stoudemire a free pass (other than the fact that one was traded and the other wasn't).

Is Amare the most gifted offensive forward outside of Lebron? I would say that he is a fantastic finisher, but he is not that great creating offense, and he can't pass that well. At this point, Carmelo Anthony, Caron Butler, Kevin Durant, Carlos Boozer, Chris Bosh, and Dirk Nowitzki are all similar or better offensive players than Amare.

Carmelo is not better than amare, check the FG%. Id say check out amare performance when it counts, in the postseason. Amare was way more efficient than those guys in the playoffs, on par with Tim Duncan on OFFENSE. Melo is a 46% career shooter and less than 40% FG's in the playoffs. Amare is 53.5% career FG's and 53.2% in the playoffs, NO DROPOFF. All the other guys on that list are less proven than amare on offense in the big games. Bosh, 40% FG's in the leastern conference playoffs. You do remember Dirk shot 38% against the heat in the /06 NBA finals, right? In the last 3 years, dirk has shot 40, 47, and 38% in the playoffs and has a career 44.5% shooting percentage in the playoffs. This is why amare is a top 10 talent on offense in the NBA, he can do it when it matters. Lebron is really coming around, his outside shot is really improving, he is scary! Amares defense is worse than all but melo(terrible) in that group. I do think he will pass Dirk this year in defense.


Hollinger has Amare at #2 to lebron in the NBA in efficiency

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holl...hollinger/statistics?univLogin02=stateChanged