Igors substitutions against warriors

[NashDishesDimes]

Havent been this pissed watching a Suns game in years. Tyler Johnson couldnt dribble the ball, pass the ball, shoot the ball, or play a lick of defense. Every time he came in the game he was responsible for bad offense and terrible switching and defense.

What frustrated me is not him, he just got here yesterday and was probably nervous. Igor left him in when the game was tight in the fourth until under 3 minutes!?

He should have received 10 minutes tonight at the most. Crawford can play PG if Okobo is tired.

On top of it, this was the most dominant game I have seen Ayton play and coach takes him out and doesnt put him in until 3 minutes left in the game after Warriors closed it!? What!? They dont even play tomorrow and didnt play yesterday and he only played 33 minutes in a close game when the Suns were short handed.

Pathetic. Literally looked like an inside job by Igor. Horrendous.

 

[elindholm]

He should have received 10 minutes tonight at the most. Crawford can play PG if Okobo is tired.

Okobo and Crawford were just as bad, if not worse. The Suns' PG situation has been a crippling weakness all year long, and the front office's failure to address it over the summer was a great concern to many of us.

 

[Proximo]

First off as bad a game as Johnson played okobo and Crawford were worse.

Playing Crawford at all is the main thing that killed us.

But the warriors were coasting. The suns never had a real chance, they were always going to turn it up at the end.

What was encouraging is the rebounding was better tonight.

I really do not understand why we are shooting the 3 so badly either, to me that is a much bigger reason for the loss than the substitutions.

 

[NashDishesDimes]

Ehh I agree okobo and Crawford not great. But even if I conceeded that, I watched Tyler Johnson miss a switch in the fourth and leave steph open for three to put them up 7. Then a couple plays later steph comes to the lane for a floater and tyler johnson didnt even put a hand in his face.

At least Okobo and Crawford know their assignments and moved the ball on offense. Johnson just dribbled for no reason and threw a bad pass about 10 times and was 1-9 shooting.

Theres no way coach thiught he gave suns best chance to win.

Tank job.

 

[elindholm]

Tank job.

How can you call a ten-point loss by one of the worst teams in the league against the defending champions a "tank job"? That's just silly.

 

[1tinsoldier]

he's saying the tank job was over playing Tyler even though he was stinking up the court due to lack of familiarity with the team or lack of talent, or both

but, imo, Igor won't tank a single game this season
he desperately needs wins to save his job
it was just bad decision making, as usual

my bigger gripe was Igor pulling Ayton after 7 or 8 minutes, as usual, even though he had 12 points.
when he gets his confidence up and is into a groove let him be damn it!
force Kerr to make adjustments -- don't do it for him
the Suns 17 pt lead evaporated and Ayton wasn't the same, scoring only 2 points in the 2nd

this has happened many times before
and an excuse here was "Ayton needs his rest because he's not in NBA shape yet"
bull! we're 57 games into the season, Ayton has 20 year old legs and he's all muscle
meanwhile, Kerr played Durant and Green the whole quarter

i doubt there's another coach in the league that would routinely pull Ayton even when he starts to dominate

EJ even suggested in the first that Ayton play 40+ minutes tonight

 

[Phrazbit]

We missed a lot of open 3s... the Warriors made a lot of contested ones.

Call me crazy, but I think the warriors might be better than we are.

 

[TJ]

Unless there’s an injury or foul trouble involved, Ayton should play almost the entire 4th quarter.

 

[Yuma]

Havent been this pissed watching a Suns game in years. Tyler Johnson couldnt dribble the ball, pass the ball, shoot the ball, or play a lick of defense. Every time he came in the game he was responsible for bad offense and terrible switching and defense.

What frustrated me is not him, he just got here yesterday and was probably nervous. Igor left him in when the game was tight in the fourth until under 3 minutes!?

He should have received 10 minutes tonight at the most. Crawford can play PG if Okobo is tired.

On top of it, this was the most dominant game I have seen Ayton play and coach takes him out and doesnt put him in until 3 minutes left in the game after Warriors closed it!? What!? They dont even play tomorrow and didnt play yesterday and he only played 33 minutes in a close game when the Suns were short handed.

Pathetic. Literally looked like an inside job by Igor. Horrendous.

I agree on Ayton. They take him out for an extended stretch in the first hald and GS starts driving the lane and comes right back into the game. I kept thinking, Cotton Fitsimmons would have put Ayton right back in after seeing that!

 

[JCSunsfan]

Okobo and Crawford were just as bad, if not worse. The Suns' PG situation has been a crippling weakness all year long, and the front office's failure to address it over the summer was a great concern to many of us.

Its why McD got fired.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Unless there’s an injury or foul trouble involved, Ayton should play almost the entire 4th quarter.

Its his conditioning. These young guys, especially bigs, get tired fast. I think that was the problem with Bledsoe a lot of time too. He just got gassed quickly. There are players who seem to never get tired. Marion was one, Nash too. On this team JJ just never seems to tire.

 

[Finito]

Igor is beyond bad I honestly don’t see how people can defend him anymore. Another game Ayton is rolling and what’s he do? Take him out and sit him for an extended period of time. He’s done this time and time again not just with Ayton. It’s like he had no sense of the game

Me and AZsteve have talked about this but why are we resting Ayton and Booker yet Kerr is playing KD and Green the whole quarter?

Igor is a huge problem

 

[JCSunsfan]

OK. This is not defending. This is just explaining. Igor has said that he communicates exactly what the substitution pattern will be with the team before the game and then he sticks to it regardless of the flow of the game. He believes his primary purpose right now is to develop young players, not to win games. He wants to win, but he believes the continuity is more important. He believes that young players develop better when they know exactly what to expect.

One could argue that winning is important to young player development too. But that is why he is doing what he is doing. I imagine there are other factors too, like conditioning and naggin injury issues, or even mistakes players make that get them yanked. If he has told Ayton, for instance, that lack of effort in certain situations will get him yanked, and then Igor yanks Ayton for that reason, I am ok with it, even if it costs on the court. I don't know for sure this is happening though.

 

[Mainstreet]

Its his conditioning. These young guys, especially bigs, get tired fast. I think that was the problem with Bledsoe a lot of time too. He just got gassed quickly. There are players who seem to never get tired. Marion was one, Nash too. On this team JJ just never seems to tire.

I think Oubre can be added to the list of Suns players that seemingly never get tired.

 

[Mainstreet]

Igor is beyond bad I honestly don’t see how people can defend him anymore. Another game Ayton is rolling and what’s he do? Take him out and sit him for an extended period of time. He’s done this time and time again not just with Ayton. It’s like he had no sense of the game

Me and AZsteve have talked about this but why are we resting Ayton and Booker yet Kerr is playing KD and Green the whole quarter?

Igor is a huge problem

Kokoskov is on a three year contract as I recall. It will be interesting to see if the Suns go into next season with him. The Suns have questions about their GM as well.

 

[sunsfan88]

Kokoskov is on a three year contract as I recall. It will be interesting to see if the Suns go into next season with him. The Suns have questions about their GM as well.

Little to zero chance Sarver agreed to pay two HCs for the next 2 seasons (after this season).

Igor will most definitely be brought back next season.

 

[WildBB]

He overthought his subs and Johnson wasn't ready to close out in the 4th qtr. Not effective defensively or offensively. Shame because they played their hearts out.

 

[1Sun]

OK. This is not defending. This is just explaining. Igor has said that he communicates exactly what the substitution pattern will be with the team before the game and then he sticks to it regardless of the flow of the game. He believes his primary purpose right now is to develop young players, not to win games. He wants to win, but he believes the continuity is more important. He believes that young players develop better when they know exactly what to expect.

One could argue that winning is important to young player development too. But that is why he is doing what he is doing. I imagine there are other factors too, like conditioning and naggin injury issues, or even mistakes players make that get them yanked. If he has told Ayton, for instance, that lack of effort in certain situations will get him yanked, and then Igor yanks Ayton for that reason, I am ok with it, even if it costs on the court. I don't know for sure this is happening though.

There is a difference between defining roles and managing expectations, on one hand, and never adjusting for the game situation, on the other hand.

Players also need to be able to learn to adjust to game situations. That is another important part of development.

 

[1tinsoldier]

OK. This is not defending. This is just explaining. Igor has said that he communicates exactly what the substitution pattern will be with the team before the game and then he sticks to it regardless of the flow of the game. He believes his primary purpose right now is to develop young players, not to win games. He wants to win, but he believes the continuity is more important. He believes that young players develop better when they know exactly what to expect..

if Igor said "his purpose is developing," he should never pull Ayton in the middle of developing on court just to "stick to a pre-planned pattern regardless of the game flow"

if he said "continuity is more important than winning" then losing is the continuity this team is learning

if he said "players develop better when they know exactly what to expect" he's better off coaching the Harlem Globetrotters than a pro NBA team where players and coaches are paid to make live adjustments like they're all in the middle of fast, physical chess game

actually, all of the above makes him the perfect coach for the Washington Generals, rather than the Harlem Globetrotters or Phoenix Suns

under this owner and coach this team should be called the Phoenix Generals

 

[Mainstreet]

Little to zero chance Sarver agreed to pay two HCs for the next 2 seasons (after this season).

Igor will most definitely be brought back next season.

The likelihood Igor comes back next season is pretty good but if the Suns get off to a rough start I wouldn't be surprised to see him let go early in the season.

However, I don't think money is the overwhelming factor. I seriously doubt we are talking about huge money with Igo's remaining two seasons.

 

[BC867]

Literally looked like an inside job by Igor. Horrendous.

Tank orders from the Front Office, whose only strategy is "hope"?

Well, that and hiring and firing low paid management.

 

[Hoop Head]

Unless there’s an injury or foul trouble involved, Ayton should play almost the entire 4th quarter.

What about the injury he just returned from?

Me and AZsteve have talked about this but why are we resting Ayton and Booker yet Kerr is playing KD and Green the whole quarter?

Where is Booker? How many games has he played in a row this season? You want to know why he's resting, ask the trainers on the team about his back, hamstring, hand, and ankle.

Ayton is in his 4th game back after missing 6 due to an ankle injury. Did everyone forget we didn't have Ayton for over 2 weeks?

We didn't beat the two time defending champs that start 5 All-Stars and because of that, Igor should be fired.

 

[1Sun]

What about the injury he just returned from?



Where is Booker? How many games has he played in a row this season? You want to know why he's resting, ask the trainers on the team about his back, hamstring, hand, and ankle.

Ayton is in his 4th game back after missing 6 due to an ankle injury. Did everyone forget we didn't have Ayton for over 2 weeks?

We didn't beat the two time defending champs that start 5 All-Stars and because of that, Igor should be fired.

No. We have more talent but worse results than last year, we are about to set franchise records for losing streaks and losses in a season, the young players are not developing, Ayton and Oubre, among others, are being misused, the players are visibly growing increasingly frustrated, Igor seemingly can't get through to anyone, and Igor's poor coaching decisions have singlehandedly cost us at least a half dozen games. THAT is why Igor should be fired.

 

[HeHasRosen]

OK. This is not defending. This is just explaining. Igor has said that he communicates exactly what the substitution pattern will be with the team before the game and then he sticks to it regardless of the flow of the game. He believes his primary purpose right now is to develop young players, not to win games. He wants to win, but he believes the continuity is more important. He believes that young players develop better when they know exactly what to expect.

One could argue that winning is important to young player development too. But that is why he is doing what he is doing. I imagine there are other factors too, like conditioning and naggin injury issues, or even mistakes players make that get them yanked. If he has told Ayton, for instance, that lack of effort in certain situations will get him yanked, and then Igor yanks Ayton for that reason, I am ok with it, even if it costs on the court. I don't know for sure this is happening though.

Yeah.... That's how youth sports should be coached. Not grown ass NBA players. Igor is in over his head. Its painfully obvious watching him try. He doesn't have a feel for the game at all. If by some grace of god we can find an actual NBA coach with some experience, you drop Igor. Unfortunately we can't seem to do that so we have been settling for the scraps the last few years

 

[AzStevenCal]

.

Yeah.... That's how youth sports should be coached. Not grown ass NBA players. Igor is in over his head. Its painfully obvious watching him try. He doesn't have a feel for the game at all. If by some grace of god we can find an actual NBA coach with some experience, you drop Igor. Unfortunately we can't seem to do that so we have been settling for the scraps the last few years

Are you kidding? This group of players is much more like a youth sports team than an NBA group and that was Igor's point. I don't know if he's right to do it this way but it's amazing how immature these guys play at times. Igor has to teach them how to play in the NBA but he also has to teach many of them basic fundamentals.