In Warner's defense

[Billy Flynt]

Can I sum-up?

Warner had a bad day.

The O-line is gawd awful.

Matt Ware got schooled.

Our normally sure handed pro bowl receivers dropped three passes.

There- that's why we lost the game.

 

[JeffGollin]

Can I sum-up?

Warner had a bad day.

The O-line is gawd awful.

Matt Ware got schooled.

Our normally sure handed pro bowl receivers dropped three passes.

There- that's why we lost the game.

Nice post. And may I add:

I'm furious with Warner for his lack of paranoia (i.e. not thinking about "what could possibly go wrong" and then being super careful with the snap).

But I still feel he's the best option we've got at this point in the season.

(I respect Hafey's opinion that Leinart can protect the ball better - but I don't agree that the rook would necessarily do any better. Maybe he could, but that's still an unknown).

There seems to be a growing tendency by many to automatically conclude that when someone screws up, this somehow makes him damaged-goods forever and he should be benched or cut. I think this is wrong.

This isn't Madden 2007. We're dealing with 3-dimensional human beings who are not necessarily the same from week to week - they have the capacity to (a) make bad mistakes and also (b) improve.

 

[40yearfan]

In Warner's defense---


Sorry. I ain't got nothin'.

BTW, I picked up a Lienart jersey for my wife yesterday and I have him as back-up QB in one of my fantasy leagues. Premonition? It was my gift for buying club season tickets.

 

[Russ Smith]

There seems to be a growing tendency by many to automatically conclude that when someone screws up, this somehow makes him damaged-goods forever and he should be benched or cut. I think this is wrong.

This isn't Madden 2007. We're dealing with 3-dimensional human beings who are not necessarily the same from week to week - they have the capacity to (a) make bad mistakes and also (b) improve.

With all due respect Jeff there also seems to be a tendency by some here to look at a bunch of information that tells them something is green, and yet because they want it to be red, they choose to believe it can be red if it just tries harder.

If anybody can come up with a non statistical way to accurately judge play by QB's I'm all for it, maybe we can call it wins and losses? Look how many 35 year old QB's can people think of who just suddenly stopped holding the ball too long after doing it their whole career?Kurt is one off the more accurate QB's in NFL history but his best days are 5 years in the past. Heck he's even getting better protection here than in NY and he's still fumbling too much. Sure it's possible that's going to stop but I'd sure like to have more than hope to explain why that's suddenly going to change?

I hope Warner plays great the rest of the season but my 31 years of watching Cardinal football tells me that's not likely, generally when a guy can't hold onto the ball and he's 35, that gets worse not better.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Can I sum-up?

Warner had a bad day.

The O-line is gawd awful.

Matt Ware got schooled.

Our normally sure handed pro bowl receivers dropped three passes.

There- that's why we lost the game.

The OLine was more than adaquate. Matt Ware also forced a turnover. Fitzgerald and Boldin recovered from their dropped balls to have a good game.

Warner still had a bad day. There, that's why we lost the game.

FIXED.

 

[Pariah]

Our normally sure handed pro bowl receivers dropped three passes.

All in the first 5 minutes--that hardly had an effect on the overall game.

 

[Slacker]

Kurt Warner has started 13 games as a Cardinal:


16 TD passes, 13 INT's, 17 fumbles 7 lost fumbles and the team's record with him as the starter is 3-10 and that includes 2 wins over the 49ers. Matt is the QBOF and we might as well see how far he has come and give Kurt a week off. I never believed Kurt would play a full season anyways I don't see why people are so surprised by this Green does NOT tolerate lack of ball security.

I am just going to keep posting this on every pro-Warner thread.

Give me a break.

 

[Duckjake]

We're dealing with 3-dimensional human beings who are not necessarily the same from week to week - they have the capacity to (a) make bad mistakes and also (b) improve

(b) doesn't apply to Cardinal players. They continue to make mistakes until they are either out of the NFL or move on to another team.

 

[CardLogic]

Snapus interruptus - Warner pulled out early!!

Never can be certain of the outcome when that happens...

 

[Billy Flynt]

Warner still had a bad day. There, that's why we lost the game.

FIXED.

I have a problem with throwing the baby out with the bath water. Yes Warner has been inconsistent but after week 3 I don't like the idea of resting the season's balance on Leinart's shoulders.

Don't get me wrong, I love ML. I wanted him for the Cardinals over any other player in the draft. I even predicted his drop to us.... but he is still a rookie and we can win with Warner at QB. With the exception of the fumbled snap - every other fumble has had to do with sacks or pressure - and usually this pressure has been a result of below league norms for "QB time to throw".

I'm not a Warner apologist. I really expected to see ML start the third qtr last week given DG's willingness to make QB changes - I'm still angry he sat McCown after 3 straight wins 2 years ago.

Kurt Warner still gives this team the best chance to make the playoffs in 2006. There are far more examples of rookie Troy Aikmans leading teams to cruddy records than Tom Bradys winning super bowls in their rookie years. That being said- I hope ML has a Troy Aikman type career - only 5 year longer.

 

[Slacker]

How does he give us the best chance to win? How? It's 3-10 as a starter. I don't understand.

 

[mesacardsfan]

Slacker get a clue this isn't last years team! he is 1-2 with THIS team and been in every game. Last year is a wash for me since we still had no RB now we do I consider this year a new year! He gives our best shot because he knows what the hell he is doing in there, unlike Leinart who will be a great QB but he is not ready yet!

 

[Slacker]

Slacker get a clue this isn't last years team! he is 1-2 with THIS team and been in every game. Last year is a wash for me since we still had no RB now we do I consider this year a new year! He gives our best shot because he knows what the hell he is doing in there, unlike Leinart who will be a great QB but he is not ready yet!

Let me write this down..

Let's see. Excuse # 4,587 on why it's not Warner's fault:

It was last years teams fault on why they sucked.

Ok thanks bro

 

[Billy Flynt]

Let me write this down..

Let's see. Excuse # 4,587 on why it's not Warner's fault:

It was last years teams fault on why they sucked.

You know what is wonderful, all you have to do is go back in the old posts on this site and take everything that was siad about Jake Plummer and put Kurt Warner's name in there.

Fine, replace Warner and put Leinart in the line up. What will be the excuse then if we don't win?

 

[Slacker]

We'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

13 Games - 13 Interceptions = Not the best chances to win a game.

 

[Pariah]

Fine, replace Warner and put Leinart in the line up. What will be the excuse then if we don't win?

I think you're missing the point. If we don't win with Leinart in the line up, we haven't missed any opportunity--we're not winning with Warner in the lineup.

As I asked in another thread, even if it's a wash (and I don't think it would be) wouldn't it be better to lose with Leinart gaining experience than with Warner just getting older?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I have a problem with throwing the baby out with the bath water. Yes Warner has been inconsistent but after week 3 I don't like the idea of resting the season's balance on Leinart's shoulders.

Don't get me wrong, I love ML. I wanted him for the Cardinals over any other player in the draft. I even predicted his drop to us.... but he is still a rookie and we can win with Warner at QB. With the exception of the fumbled snap - every other fumble has had to do with sacks or pressure - and usually this pressure has been a result of below league norms for "QB time to throw".

I'm not a Warner apologist. I really expected to see ML start the third qtr last week given DG's willingness to make QB changes - I'm still angry he sat McCown after 3 straight wins 2 years ago.

Kurt Warner still gives this team the best chance to make the playoffs in 2006. There are far more examples of rookie Troy Aikmans leading teams to cruddy records than Tom Bradys winning super bowls in their rookie years. That being said- I hope ML has a Troy Aikman type career - only 5 year longer.

I can understand your stance. It is about as clear headed as any "Pro-Warner" post has been.

I am not sure if Warner presents us the best chance to make the playoffs anymore. Navarre and all of his stupidity would have led us to a win last week.

Once KW can correctly audible/hot route, throw the ball away, (which I have never seen done) or not hold the ball too long, we can talk. That doesn't even include him not being able to throw the long ball, or the massive amount of turnovers that he is directly responsible for.

 

[JC_AZ]

I can understand your stance. It is about as clear headed as any "Pro-Warner" post has been.

I am not sure if Warner presents us the best chance to make the playoffs anymore. Navarre and all of his stupidity would have led us to a win last week.

Once KW can correctly audible/hot route, throw the ball away, (which I have never seen done) or not hold the ball too long, we can talk. That doesn't even include him not being able to throw the long ball, or the massive amount of turnovers that he is directly responsible for.

And don't forget his misunderstanding of the use of the clock when we need TWO scores while the pace seems to be conceding defeat in order to get ONE so it doesn't look so bad in the box score...this has been the case in the last TWO games THIS YEAR...how is that excusable for a VETERAN, MVP QB?

 

[Duckjake]

I am not sure if Warner presents us the best chance to make the playoffs anymore. Navarre and all of his stupidity would have led us to a win last week.

Anyone who thinks that the Cards have to play Warner simply because he gives the team a chance to win is wrong. The Cards have no chance to win this year. Even the biggest homers on this board were saying they expected 10-6 at best and most were saying 6-10 to 8-8. At the rate they are making mistakes so far this season they're looking at 5-11 at best.

The only reason not to play Leinart now is to keep from getting him hurt.

 

[mesacardsfan]

Thats rediculous duckjake its 3 games into the season are you able to see the future? What if Kurt and the O get it rolling and start steamrolling people? Yeah there is a lot of season left you don't just assume that we are a 5-11 team this has to be the most rediculous statement I have read on here in sometime. We still have a shot at the freaking playoffs how do you know how the team is going to come together? Just insane amount negativity to even suggest that we are a 5-11 team have you not looked at the schedule? We CAN still make the playoffs if we get our crap together and I for one would like to watch a competitive team and no one can deny thats what we have been this season. We have not gotten blown out even with the rediculous amount of mistakes, that just shows if we correct them we can play with the best!!!!!!!!!!

 

[D-Dogg]

Thats rediculous duckjake its 3 games into the season are you able to see the future? What if Kurt and the O get it rolling and start steamrolling people? Yeah there is a lot of season left you don't just assume that we are a 5-11 team this has to be the most rediculous statement I have read on here in sometime. We still have a shot at the freaking playoffs how do you know how the team is going to come together? Just insane amount negativity to even suggest that we are a 5-11 team have you not looked at the schedule? We CAN still make the playoffs if we get our crap together and I for one would like to watch a competitive team and no one can deny thats what we have been this season. We have not gotten blown out even with the rediculous amount of mistakes, that just shows if we correct them we can play with the best!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with you on that the season isn't lost and we've been in games despite making crucial mistakes...however, Kurt is responsible for a great deal of those many mistakes. If Kurt cuts his crap and plays well, the team will be just fine. I just don't have a lot of confidence that he will.

 

[moklerman]

I just rewatched the game and am surprised at what I saw and understand why Warner is still the starter. Watching the game live, I didn't see some of the things that others have pointed in terms of the turnovers.

The tipped ball interception was on Warner. He had James wide open in the flat and instead tried to force the ball into double coverage. The defense should have been called for illegal contact or pass interference but that doesn't excuse forcing it.

The interception that went right to a Rams defender, Warner was slapped on the elbow by Little as he was throwing. Pope was there but it's hard to tell if he would have had a shot at the ball since the trajectory forced the ball almost straight down.

Lastly, the game killing fumble was indeed knocked out of Warner's hands by his own guard. The guard was pulling left and poked the ball out with his left hand. It's still not a good thing that it was knocked out of Warner's hands that easily but it wasn't, as I had originally thought, a case of Warner just dropping the snap.

I think after reviewing these plays, DG felt that Warner hadn't unravelled as it had appeared he had. He's likely on a short leash, but rightfully keeping his job for now.

I was pleased to see that I didn't see a guy having hand problems or concussion problems when I watched for the second time. Live, I thought Warner had completely unravelled. Under review, much of his struggles were just bad luck.

 

[Evil Ash]

Lastly, the game killing fumble was indeed knocked out of Warner's hands by his own guard. The guard was pulling left and poked the ball out with his left hand. It's still not a good thing that it was knocked out of Warner's hands that easily but it wasn't, as I had originally thought, a case of Warner just dropping the snap.

Stop please stop. Warner at the end of the game admitted fault. Let me repeat that ... WARNER SAID IT WAS HIS FAULT.

If he secured the ball when getting it from the center, the fumble wouldn't have ever happened.

8 fumbles in 3 games is way too many no matter how you slice it

 

[Duckjake]

Thats rediculous duckjake its 3 games into the season are you able to see the future? What if Kurt and the O get it rolling and start steamrolling people? Yeah there is a lot of season left you don't just assume that we are a 5-11 team this has to be the most rediculous statement I have read on here in sometime. We still have a shot at the freaking playoffs how do you know how the team is going to come together? Just insane amount negativity to even suggest that we are a 5-11 team have you not looked at the schedule? We CAN still make the playoffs if we get our crap together and I for one would like to watch a competitive team and no one can deny thats what we have been this season. We have not gotten blown out even with the rediculous amount of mistakes, that just shows if we correct them we can play with the best!!!!!!!!!!

blah,blah,blah... I've heard the same nonsense for 18 years. And it was wrong 17 times.

The Cards just lost a game, at home, that their opponent gift wrapped for them. Once again they are "shooting themselves in the foot" just like in all the other 5-11,4-12 and 6-10 seasons.

 

[Derm]

blah,blah,blah... I've heard the same nonsense for 18 years. And it was wrong 17 times.

The Cards just lost a game, at home, that their opponent gift wrapped for them. Once again they are "shooting themselves in the foot" just like in all the other 5-11,4-12 and 6-10 seasons.

DJ, we're going to get you a complete golf package with spa treatments when you're back out here.... or some of T.O.'s magic goofy pills. It'll be OK - maybe not this season, but it'll work out.