Is Gerald Green the most athletic player in Suns history?

[Cheesebeef]

Nowhere near the level most of the players talked about here. He fits in with the Cedric and Shannon crowd, not with The Hawk, Marion, Amar'e, Dumas, Green group.

I agree that he's not in the Marion, Amare, Dumas, Green group, but I think his athleticism was a notch above Ceballos'. Yes, Ced won the dunk contest, but he won it with gimmicky stuff, not high flying awesomeness. He was THE best garbage man in the game, but his game wasn't exactly above the rim. I can still remember Hakeem just repeatedly blocking his weak ass layup attempts over and over and over again in the 94 playoffs.

we're also forgetting another high-flier from back in the 80's early 90's...TC. Dude had quicks and could soar. He moved really quick for a guy his size and the knee to Mark Jackson's face dunk is still probably my favorite of all time.

 

[Finito]

Nowhere near the level most of the players talked about here. He fits in with the Cedric and Shannon crowd, not with The Hawk, Marion, Amar'e, Dumas, Green group.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KkGDI9rBgKQ

I don't think we're talking about the same guy. His head is at the rim on that last windmill. Finley could crash the lane and throw down on anyone.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Agree a lot with JC - lots of different ways to define athleticism

In game dunks - Gerald Green does dunk contest dunks regularly

Dunking over people? - Amare - not many better in the history of the game

Jumping - Marion - bonus points for the 2nd and 3rd jumps

Coordination and skill- Nash, for sure. I can't ever remember a player that moved so well/shot so accurately.

 

[Dr. Jones]

The first name I thought of was Dumas. Then Nance. Then Amare. Then Gerald Green.

I tend to gravitate towards the big guys who have all the tools over lighter kids with massive hops.

Most Athletic? Watching a young Amare was better than Blake Griffin IMO. His anger and aggression was down right wicked.

 

[Catlover]

I agree that he's not in the Marion, Amare, Dumas, Green group, but I think his athleticism was a notch above Ceballos'. Yes, Ced won the dunk contest, but he won it with gimmicky stuff, not high flying awesomeness. He was THE best garbage man in the game, but his game wasn't exactly above the rim. I can still remember Hakeem just repeatedly blocking his weak ass layup attempts over and over and over again in the 94 playoffs.

we're also forgetting another high-flier from back in the 80's early 90's...TC. Dude had quicks and could soar. He moved really quick for a guy his size and the knee to Mark Jackson's face dunk is still probably my favorite of all time.

You're right, Ceballos wasn't an above the rim player but I still thought he was pretty athletic. He was a very quick leaper even though he didn't get up all that high and he had excellent body control which is also a part of athleticism IMO.

I didn't get to watch the Suns often during TC's run but I do remember being impressed with his athleticism earlier in his career. The few times I managed to see the Suns while he was there it seemed that Cotton had turned him into mostly an outside shooter. He still had some great dunks but nothing like I remembered from his San Diego and Seattle days.

 

[Catlover]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KkGDI9rBgKQ

I don't think we're talking about the same guy. His head is at the rim on that last windmill. Finley could crash the lane and throw down on anyone.

He can jump high. If that's how you measure a person's athleticism then yes, Finley is as athletic as they come.

 

[sunsfan88]

Agree a lot with JC - lots of different ways to define athleticism

In game dunks - Gerald Green does dunk contest dunks regularly

Dunking over people? - Amare - not many better in the history of the game

Jumping - Marion - bonus points for the 2nd and 3rd jumps

Coordination and skill- Nash, for sure. I can't ever remember a player that moved so well/shot so accurately.

Marion can't jump higher than Green.

 

[Finito]

He can jump high. If that's how you measure a person's athleticism then yes, Finley is as athletic as they come.

Well yeah when a guy can jump so high his head is rim level that's pretty damn athletic. I'm in my 30s and I remember when he was a kid. He was damn good and a much better basketball player than guys like Dumas, Green, Ceballos combine his skills with his power and jumping yeah I'd say pretty athletic. His dunks weren't open court flashy dunks that wasn't his game he was a slasher. The year after we traded him he led Dallas in scoring, assist and steals and that's a team that had Jimmy Jackson and a young Mashburn.made the all star team a couple times.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NtgF1QoVY_M

How many of those dunks in that video are over guys? That was his game aggressive, power slashing to the basket and exploding up and over guys.

 

[Catlover]

Well yeah when a guy can jump so high his head is rim level that's pretty damn athletic. I'm in my 30s and I remember when he was a kid. He was damn good and a much better basketball player than guys like Dumas, Green, Ceballos combine his skills with his power and jumping yeah I'd say pretty athletic. His dunks weren't open court flashy dunks that wasn't his game he was a slasher. The year after we traded him he led Dallas in scoring, assist and steals and that's a team that had Jimmy Jackson and a young Mashburn.made the all star team a couple times.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NtgF1QoVY_M

How many of those dunks in that video are over guys? That was his game aggressive, power slashing to the basket and exploding up and over guys.

Finley was one of my favorite players, I'm well aware of what he could do. He's a much better player than Gerald Green has been but if you're just talking athleticism he's not in the same class IMO. He's at that second level with players like Shannon Brown although again, he was a far better basketball player than Brown. Check out the dunks by Shannon and you'll see I'm not trying to take a shot at Michael, Brown is also an incredible leaper. Finley was a great athlete but he's not at the same level with the all time great NBA athletes, Amar'e and Marion are.

 

[Drop D]

How could we leave off Marko Milic? Dude dunked over a car!

 

[Finito]

How could we leave off Marko Milic? Dude dunked over a car!

Marko actually jumped over the roof of the car, Blake jumped over the hood. That Blake dunk was garbage

 

[Errntknght]

If you don't require being graceful, Wilt Chamberlain was the most athletic player in the history of the NBA. In college he competed for the Kansas track team without practicing a significant amount. 10.9 hundred yard dash, 49.0 440 yard dash, 1:58 half mile, 57 ft and change in the shot put, 6'6" in the high jump, 22+ ft broad jump and over 50' in the triple jump. His vertical has been reported at 48, 49 and 50 inches but it wasn't an officially kept stat in those days. He routinely played every minute of every game and after he retired he ran in several marathons. He also starred in volleyball and was inducted into the volleyball hall of fame. Two anecdotes about his strength - when with the Globetrotters they had a skit in which he tossed Meadowlark Lemon into the air and caught his like a rag doll. Bob Lanier (a very big dude) said that once Wilt picked him up and moved him out the way like he was a teacup.

For a brief time he dunked his free throws because he could start inside the top of key, take on step behind the FT line and dunk the ball. The league changed the rules to prevent him from doing that.

 

[3rdside]

How do you define athleticism? I'd say run fast, jump high and very pertinently for basketball, jump fast (funnily enough a mix of the two former points when written that way). So it's got to be Marion?

Saying someone jumps higher than someone else is clearly an incomplete measure and besides, it's almost impossible to prove.

What about lateral quickness as the next measure? Point guards putting defenders on the floor without touching them. But this one rules out almost all big men (which may not be a bad thing - amare, for example, could jump high but maybe we only mention him, mcdyess etc because they're big - being big shouldn't garner extra points..)

 

[sunsfan88]

Marko actually jumped over the roof of the car, Blake jumped over the hood. That Blake dunk was garbage

I'm sure Blake could jump over the roof of a car with ease...

 

[Phrazbit]

Marion can't jump higher than Green.

When Marion was in his prime?! Absolutely he could. And (as the poster you quoted was saying) Marion had a freakish ability to jump very high repeatedly from a standing position, while other guys were trying to gather themselves after a contest for a rebound Marion was already a foot over them hauling it in. Thats how at 6'7" he was regularly among the league leaders in rebounding.

BTW Green vertical is measured at 39 inches. While thats very very good its not mind blowing, and certainly not in the "best of all time" category. I think people are confusing Green's flashiness with the raw leaping ability, speed and power we see in some of the superior athletes that have come through this city.

 

[sunsfan88]

Jason Richardson could be in the conversation at least, his first year with the Suns he was still athletic.

Certainly. His vertical leap is much higher than Marion's and I have seen quite a few mention him. He was also as quick as Marion was in his prime imo.

BTW Green vertical is measured at 39 inches. While thats very very good its not mind blowing, and certainly not in the "best of all time" category. I think people are confusing Green's flashiness with the raw leaping ability, speed and power we see in some of the superior athletes that have come through this city.

Are you talking about vertical leap?

And I think Green has pretty nice speed as well. I have seen him blow by defenders countless times this season when defenders guarded him tightly to not give up the 3. His strength is probably his weakness but its not bad either and his strength comes out pretty nice on many of his poster dunks. If he didn't have strength and it was just leaping ability, it would come out like the Hakim Warrick dunks.

 

[Phrazbit]

Green is not strong. You dont see him power dunks through people and he does not out muscle anyone out there. Again, you're confusing flashiness with athletism. Warrick didnt suck because he was not strong enough to play like Green, Warrick had terrible hands and couldnt dribble to save his life, thats not a strength problem. Its coordination.

As for Richardson, earlier in his career he was comparable to these guys (certainly every bit as athletic as Green), but he had thickened a bit before joining the Suns. Not saying he was not still athletic, he certainly was, but no longer the elite level freak of the early part of his career.

I'm just surprised how many people here are caught up in the moment. If Marion were 24 and on the Suns right now and Green had been departed for 5 years we would find the comparison as overall athletes humorous.

If you want to make a separate conversation about just who can throw down the best dunks then it would be a different story, that would notch Green over Marion. Marion was not all that flashy with his dunking, he didnt have the handles Green does. But I'd put Amare as the nastiest dunker I've seen as a Sun.

 

[sunsfan88]

Warrick sucked because he didn't have the strength to dunk in traffic. Every game there would be times when Nash sets him up perfectly and he goes up between two defender trying to Air Jordan it and he would come short of the rim cause the defenders would just shove his skinny *** over to the aside and go on with their day.

And you didn't answer my question about the vertical leap.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yes, when I said vertical I was talking about his vertical. And Warrick had no handles, no coordination and little talent. What you're describing as his problem is actually called a "foul" in the NBA. Warrick couldnt put the ball on the floor, he couldnt go by anyone, anyone pressuring him could take the ball away, he had no jump shot to respect and he couldnt get space, even when he did have a ton of room to dunk he was as likely to mishandle the pass as to actually throw it down. To say the only difference between him and Green is that Green is STRONGER is a hilariously idiotic argument.

 

[sunsfan88]

We aren't talking about their basketball skills, we are talking about their athleticism and to an extent body structures.

What the hell does Warrick's ability to put the ball on the floor have anything to do with it?

And Green's vertical leap is 48 inches while Marion's is 41 inches.

If your gonna try to be a dick about something, you should at least put in the research first and also try to stay on topic.

 

[slinslin]

BTW Green vertical is measured at 39 inches. While thats very very good its not mind blowing, and certainly not in the "best of all time" category. I think people are confusing Green's flashiness with the raw leaping ability, speed and power we see in some of the superior athletes that have come through this city.

So are we now taking combine measurements as a measure?

I'll rather judge it by what we see in games and that is Gerald Green jumping considerably higher on dunks than anyone else we have seen in the NBA.

 

[JCSunsfan]

If you are talking about overall athletic ability (which to me differs from athleticism since overall ability includes strength speed height etc PLUS hand-eye coordination, body control, instinct and intelligence) there is only one athlete in history that was a first team Parade all-american (hs) in basketball, football, AND baseball. He also was a Sun.



Yup. Danny Ainge.

 

[devilalum]

If you are talking about overall athletic ability (which to me differs from athleticism since overall ability includes strength speed height etc PLUS hand-eye coordination, body control, instinct and intelligence) there is only one athlete in history that was a first team Parade all-american (hs) in basketball, football, AND baseball. He also was a Sun.



Yup. Danny Ainge.

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[Jay Cardinal]

In my opinion the most athletic players are falling into 3 tiers. The top tier is probably recognized by all NBA fans, the second tier is very, very close to the first tier, the third tier is more recognizable to Phoenix fans than national fans. Good arguments for lots of players. It is tough because we all have different definitions of athletic. Marion, Amare, and Bledsoe are such different players and all athletic in their own way.

I would rank my tiers as follows:

Top
Green, McDyess, Amare

Almost top
Marion, Finley, Nance, J-Rich, Hawkins

Third Tier
KJ, Ceballos, Bledsoe

 

[Catlover]

In my opinion the most athletic players are falling into 3 tiers. The top tier is probably recognized by all NBA fans, the second tier is very, very close to the first tier, the third tier is more recognizable to Phoenix fans than national fans. Good arguments for lots of players. It is tough because we all have different definitions of athletic. Marion, Amare, and Bledsoe are such different players and all athletic in their own way.

I would rank my tiers as follows:

Top
Green, McDyess, Amare

Almost top
Marion, Finley, Nance, J-Rich, Hawkins

Third Tier
KJ, Ceballos, Bledsoe

What's knocking Marion down to the second tier for you? Prior to the Starks incident he lived above the rim in a manner I've only seen from one other player, David Thompson. And I don't think you can find a player that could make that second and third jump as quickly as he could. If he'd had the handle and shot of a star player he'd waltz into the greatest player ever conversation. As it is he'll have to settle for a spot in the freakishly athletic player of all time convo.