Is Murray that good?

[Jetstream Green]

Murray is more accurate on deep routes, out routes, and on the run

This I agree... I really think he is just a smaller version of Michael Vick which makes me ask if Vick came into the league now would this new brand of offense and rules skewed to his favor made him more dominant because like Vick, Murray does not have much touch

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Back when Murray was still on a baseball contract the consensus was 2nd round pick, then after he changed his mind and said he would play ball he was being projected to a mid 1st round and perhaps the third QB drafted. Guy gets on a scale and now he's the #1 overall. I can't recall someone moving this far up the draft boards without a snap being played.

Well...

The risk of not signing someone because of another sport is a giant negative

The only other negative was size and weight

So yes everything you have said is true. Circumstances and facts have given you new information

 

[Crimson Warrior]

As a Texan who watches football I am not going off of stats but ball placement and Mayfield is deadly accurate putting the ball right on the numbers. Murray gets it there but a little high and usually a tad behind, but I do think he throws the better deep ball. Not saying he does not have accuracy but he's not close to Mayfield in working a larger percentage of the field. Watch the Bama tape or even UT when he is on, his WRs have to make a effort and hardly is it ever in the bread basket. Maybe because he is short he tends to throw high to guys which are taller than him due to a mindset to compensate and a pro coach can find the quick fix, but he's not as accurate... though accurate

https://www.google.com/search?q=bak...me..69i57j0.7258j1j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


I don't know Jetstream. This is Baker's 7 min highlight reel. All his very best plays. He's crazy accurate I agree, but the ball placement looks a lot like Murray's seven minute highlight reel. I mean, I really think we're splitting hairs at this point sir.

If someone wanted to say Murray is like a faster version of Mayfield. I wouldn't argue one bit actually. Their games are both pretty similar, which is a big reason why I think Murray will have success at the next level.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

This I agree... I really think he is just a smaller version of Michael Vick which makes me ask if Vick came into the league now would this new brand of offense made him more dominant because like Vick, Murray does not have much touch

Basically my opinion too

But ultimately we are comparing him to Rosen not Mayfield. And again I love Rosen. Have his jersey

Rosen is high floor and low ceiling. He is the safe bet .Stay at 1 .Take Bosa or Williams. Build a.great oline

Murray is the exact opposite. I just really believe he will end up at high ceiling instead of low floor

 

[Jetstream Green]

Basically my opinion too

But ultimately we are comparing him to Rosen not Mayfield. And again I love Rosen. Have his jersey

Rosen is high loor and low ceiling. He is the safe bet .Stay at 1 .Take Bosa or Williams. Build a.great oline

Murray is the exact opposite. I just really believe he will end up at high ceiling instead of low floor

I watched his tape and he is fascinating but what scares me is that he has this quick release like Warner did but seems he lacks the abiity to hit receivers in stride in routes which are in the interior of the field and for a pro that's his bread and butter to having a dynamic offense and making people who blitz pay with hot routes. Maybe once he gets an offense down, that gets fixed by itself. I think Rosen can and did show that early on till he got shell shocked later and still think he can regain that ability... I too would go defense

 

[bojack]

Well...

The risk of not signing someone because of another sport is a giant negative

The only other negative was size and weight

So yes everything you have said is true. Circumstances and facts have given you new information

But the projections were based on him declaring for the NFL, not based on someone rolling the dice with a draft pick and find out later if he wanted to play or not. He is a RS junior so he has to declare is intent to play pro football within 7 days from the end of the champ game and get league approval to enter the draft since his eligibility wasn't used up. When he declared is the same day he announced he was only playing football. At that point in time many were still skeptical there was a path to a first round selection. It was only after the hype machines and smokescreens started that his projections started ramping up and a month ago basically everyone still had him as the 3rd QB drafted.

All the hype benefits everyone who help guide that narrative ... League, media and KM camp.

It was widely reported that Murray requested a draft grade but it never leaked out as far as I heard. When you get a good grade it leaks. Haskins got a 1st round grade. Insiders seemed to be settling it would come back 2nd or 3rd round. I'm guessing that is why he said he said 100% he would play baseball and not football.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sp...eisman-trophy-stats/vxav4u4kvaa11unq8yylaf94j

Even the very day before declaring for the NFL and saying he for sure wouldn't play baseball his camp was negotiating with the As to get a bigs contract with guaranteed money which would mean the As would need to carry him on the 40 man roster while he was playing in the minors.

Let's be real here... Murray would be playing baseball if he thought there was more guaranteed money in it. It was only once the hype machines started to move the needle that he could guarantee more short term money in the NFL that he flipped that way. I don't blame someone from making a decision based on money, but don't talk about comittments and honor and all that and do about face.

He was 100% baseball only, no doubt, NFL is not a chance until the day of the NFL deadline and then he was 100% football only and now MLB is not a chance. I feel like the people on the Az fans on KM train missed the entire saga and doesn't have any qualms about someone who gave a club his word up and down and then flip flopped.

 

[cardpa]

Let's assume Rosen is a stinker. Never going to go anywhere in the NFL. Remember a year ago SK was singing praises about him. A year later SK selects Murray at #1. He will be singing praises about him. My question is if SK missed big time on Rosen how do you have any confidence he's right about Murray? SK hasn't exactly been a QB guru when it came to picking a QBOTF. I personally have no confidence he will strike gold here. I know some will argue it's KK asking for him but Arians was beating the drums for Thomas and we all see how that worked out. I find this whole scenario very troubling. I feel as if no one in this organization really has a handle on this whole QB situation.

 

[BW52]

Back when Murray was still on a baseball contract the consensus was 2nd round pick, then after he changed his mind and said he would play ball he was being projected to a mid 1st round and perhaps the third QB drafted. Guy gets on a scale and now he's the #1 overall. I can't recall someone moving this far up the draft boards without a snap being played.

This shows the desperation of the hype that 5`10 and 207 suddenly "answers" all the questions concerning Murray and the NFL.Amazing what a tape measure can do.

 

[slanidrac16]

When the Bears took Trubiski a lot of people question gm Pace . And he traded up 1 spot to do it. Trubiski only started 18 games in college(?). There are still questions about him going into his third year. He didn’t look good at all in his first year with a crap coaching staff but took a major step forward under coach Nagy. I really think Rosen can do the same thing and that’s what holds me back on Murray. It will be a brutal year for Murray if he is forced to start. Mahomes sat for a year behind Smith.

 

[JeffGollin]

PFF has Murray as on the same tier as Mayfield. Murray more accurate, Mayfield a better leader

Rosen on the same tier as Haskins well below Darnold

Casserly on NFLN walked back his negative take on Murray. (i.e. "I didn't say these things. I was just repeating what I heard. I saw some good things on tape.") He then went on to advise that, if Rosen wants to succeed, he has to apply himself more dilgently - especially off the field.

 

[BW52]

Casserly on NFLN walked back his negative take on Murray. (i.e. "I didn't say these things. I was just repeating what I heard. I saw some good things on tape.") He then went on to advise that, if Rosen wants to succeed, he has to apply himself more dilgently - especially off the field.

So Casserly gets some heat and probably "pressure" from his bosses and now he toes the company line of dishing out the Murray tripe hype.Then he takes a shot at josh Rosen …….orchestrated much.

 

[Jetstream Green]

https://www.google.com/search?q=bak...me..69i57j0.7258j1j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


I don't know Jetstream. This is Baker's 7 min highlight reel. All his very best plays. He's crazy accurate I agree, but the ball placement looks a lot like Murray's seven minute highlight reel. I mean, I really think we're splitting hairs at this point sir.

If someone wanted to say Murray is like a faster version of Mayfield. I wouldn't argue one bit actually. Their games are both pretty similar, which is a big reason why I think Murray will have success at the next level.

It's not about the highlight reels as much as the throws to simply get you first downs cuz ( and I will call you cousin since your school's best players are pilfered from Texas haha). I saw Mayfield with the ability to get Wrs the ball in stride and I was really big on drafting him because of his intuitive accuracy... I do not see this same trait with Murray, seeing a lot of passes being completed to WRs standing still out of their route, but I do see a jitterbug which can throw in the pocket unlike other scrambling QBs, I do see a quarterback sir

 

[Jetstream Green]

Casserly on NFLN walked back his negative take on Murray. (i.e. "I didn't say these things. I was just repeating what I heard. I saw some good things on tape.") He then went on to advise that, if Rosen wants to succeed, he has to apply himself more dilgently - especially off the field.

Rosen has... Casserly does not know crap and just made up more crap about his work ethic

 

[ARZCardinals]

Is Murray that good?
Try coaching football at ANY level and tell me the QB doesn't have to be super talented to be a winner.
Even coaching 12 and 13 year olds they have to have the ability to read the line, know the routes, read progressions and hit the right WR....which is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR from easy.

Texas High School Football is #1 or #2 in the nation (with California right up there)
Murray was 43-0 as a QB at the highest level of High School Football
3 State Championships
Just think about that when doing a simple evaluation on him.
That also means he is highly durable ...cause you know he was getting hit game after game and managed to get up.
Just that alone is an AMAZING feat...and if you don't think so you've never coached any level of tackle football....or flag football for that matter.
Then add to it
He led Oklahoma (yes led) to the SEC Championship and broke 6 all time QB records in the process (that includes every QB who's ever played in college)
The most impressive (to me) is his QB rating of over 200 ...which surpasses every QB who's played. It means he's highly efficient...and was the extremely highly rated when they faced 3rd down and 7 or more....which is where the QB makes their money....1st and 2nd are 'play' downs....3rd down is where the QB needs to make it happen.
He averaged over 7 yards per carry when running...which again is the highest number ever by ANY qb. ...so he can read the field ...he's super fast ...he doesn't take the big hits...and he gets the yardage to crush the defense.
Whether you like the Heisman or not ...he won it...and yes not every player who's won the Heisman was effective in the NFL, but Murray isn't your average player.

What is not to like, his height....well then he also only had 5 blocked balls all season...which again he led the all of college football with the LOWEST amount of blocked balls.
Maybe you don't like his attitude during his interviews...games are never won nor lost during press conferences...and maybe you never heard bill belichick speak. Rosen said last year at the draft that basically everyone who picked a qb ahead of him would regret it....it was a great sound bite, but that's all it was. Look at the production and not the interviews.

He's a winner FLAT OUT ....a winner that should be mentioned with the names of Peyton Manning and Drew Brees.
He's not a good player, he's a generational player.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Is Murray that good?
Try coaching football at ANY level and tell me the QB doesn't have to be super talented to be a winner.
Even coaching 12 and 13 year olds they have to have the ability to read the line, know the routes, read progressions and hit the right WR....which is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR from easy.

Texas High School Football is #1 or #2 in the nation (with California right up there)
Murray was 43-0 as a QB at the highest level of High School Football
3 State Championships
Just think about that when doing a simple evaluation on him.
That also means he is highly durable ...cause you know he was getting hit game after game and managed to get up.
Just that alone is an AMAZING feat...and if you don't think so you've never coached any level of tackle football....or flag football for that matter.
Then add to it
He led Oklahoma (yes led) to the SEC Championship and broke 6 all time QB records in the process (that includes every QB who's ever played in college)
The most impressive (to me) is his QB rating of over 200 ...which surpasses every QB who's played. It means he's highly efficient...and was the extremely highly rated when they faced 3rd down and 7 or more....which is where the QB makes their money....1st and 2nd are 'play' downs....3rd down is where the QB needs to make it happen.
He averaged over 7 yards per carry when running...which again is the highest number ever by ANY qb. ...so he can read the field ...he's super fast ...he doesn't take the big hits...and he gets the yardage to crush the defense.
Whether you like the Heisman or not ...he won it...and yes not every player who's won the Heisman was effective in the NFL, but Murray isn't your average player.

What is not to like, his height....well then he also only had 5 blocked balls all season...which again he led the all of college football with the LOWEST amount of blocked balls.

He's a winner FLAT OUT ....a winner that should be mentioned with the names of Peyton Manning and Drew Brees.
He's not a good player, he's a generational player.

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[Buckybird]

Rosen has... Casserly does not know crap and just made up more crap about his work ethic

Because the team he consults for (Jets) stand to gain at #4 if Murray slides

 

[Jetstream Green]

Because the team he consults for (Jets) stand to gain at #4 if Murray slides

Agendas... J E T S

 

[Buckybird]

It's not about the highlight reels as much as the throws to simply get you first downs cuz ( and I will call you cousin since your school's best players are pilfered from Texas haha). I saw Mayfield with the ability to get Wrs the ball in stride and I was really big on drafting him because of his intuitive accuracy... I do not see this same trait with Murray, seeing a lot of passes being completed to WRs standing still out of their route, but I do see a jitterbug which can throw in the pocket unlike other scrambling QBs, I do see a quarterback sir

I’ve said a few times here I don’t Murray is quite as accurate (especially ball location), but he’s damn close.

I’m not going to bash Rosen because he was my #2 QB last year behind the Touchdown Maker but I think there’s a few things that make the K2/Murray an interesting match.

1) the offense fits Murray better. It’s predominantly a shotgun based offense
2) his running abilities open up the passing game & receivers get often lost in coverage during the run & time they have to cover. It’s hard for DBs & LBs to cover for man than 5-7 secs
3) Rosen struggled mightily in the short game last season & the Air Raid offense relies a lot on those passes. All Oline or Josh? I don’t know yet

Only time will tell who’s our QB & if it was the correct decision either way.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

He's a winner FLAT OUT ....a winner that should be mentioned with the names of Peyton Manning and Drew Brees.
He's not a good player, he's a generational player.

I remember a lot of these same things being said about Vince Young. Hmmm.

 

[Buckybird]

I remember a lot of these same things being said about Vince Young. Hmmm.

Not from this Horns fan . I didn’t think VY was a good enough passer. I was driving the Leinart train to Super Bowls lol

Btw Jim thx for your scouting info I believe it was yesterday. Sorry haven’t been on much lately

 

[swagron]

Is Murray that good?
Try coaching football at ANY level and tell me the QB doesn't have to be super talented to be a winner.
Even coaching 12 and 13 year olds they have to have the ability to read the line, know the routes, read progressions and hit the right WR....which is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR from easy.

Texas High School Football is #1 or #2 in the nation (with California right up there)
Murray was 43-0 as a QB at the highest level of High School Football
3 State Championships
Just think about that when doing a simple evaluation on him.
That also means he is highly durable ...cause you know he was getting hit game after game and managed to get up.
Just that alone is an AMAZING feat...and if you don't think so you've never coached any level of tackle football....or flag football for that matter.
Then add to it
He led Oklahoma (yes led) to the SEC Championship and broke 6 all time QB records in the process (that includes every QB who's ever played in college)
The most impressive (to me) is his QB rating of over 200 ...which surpasses every QB who's played. It means he's highly efficient...and was the extremely highly rated when they faced 3rd down and 7 or more....which is where the QB makes their money....1st and 2nd are 'play' downs....3rd down is where the QB needs to make it happen.
He averaged over 7 yards per carry when running...which again is the highest number ever by ANY qb. ...so he can read the field ...he's super fast ...he doesn't take the big hits...and he gets the yardage to crush the defense.
Whether you like the Heisman or not ...he won it...and yes not every player who's won the Heisman was effective in the NFL, but Murray isn't your average player.

What is not to like, his height....well then he also only had 5 blocked balls all season...which again he led the all of college football with the LOWEST amount of blocked balls.
Maybe you don't like his attitude during his interviews...games are never won nor lost during press conferences...and maybe you never heard bill belichick speak. Rosen said last year at the draft that basically everyone who picked a qb ahead of him would regret it....it was a great sound bite, but that's all it was. Look at the production and not the interviews.

He's a winner FLAT OUT ....a winner that should be mentioned with the names of Peyton Manning and Drew Brees.
He's not a good player, he's a generational player.

There are ZERO generational players in this draft. ZERO.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

Is Murray that good?
Try coaching football at ANY level and tell me the QB doesn't have to be super talented to be a winner.
Even coaching 12 and 13 year olds they have to have the ability to read the line, know the routes, read progressions and hit the right WR....which is FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR from easy.

Texas High School Football is #1 or #2 in the nation (with California right up there)
Murray was 43-0 as a QB at the highest level of High School Football
3 State Championships
Just think about that when doing a simple evaluation on him.
That also means he is highly durable ...cause you know he was getting hit game after game and managed to get up.
Just that alone is an AMAZING feat...and if you don't think so you've never coached any level of tackle football....or flag football for that matter.
Then add to it
He led Oklahoma (yes led) to the SEC Championship and broke 6 all time QB records in the process (that includes every QB who's ever played in college)
The most impressive (to me) is his QB rating of over 200 ...which surpasses every QB who's played. It means he's highly efficient...and was the extremely highly rated when they faced 3rd down and 7 or more....which is where the QB makes their money....1st and 2nd are 'play' downs....3rd down is where the QB needs to make it happen.
He averaged over 7 yards per carry when running...which again is the highest number ever by ANY qb. ...so he can read the field ...he's super fast ...he doesn't take the big hits...and he gets the yardage to crush the defense.
Whether you like the Heisman or not ...he won it...and yes not every player who's won the Heisman was effective in the NFL, but Murray isn't your average player.

What is not to like, his height....well then he also only had 5 blocked balls all season...which again he led the all of college football with the LOWEST amount of blocked balls.
Maybe you don't like his attitude during his interviews...games are never won nor lost during press conferences...and maybe you never heard bill belichick speak. Rosen said last year at the draft that basically everyone who picked a qb ahead of him would regret it....it was a great sound bite, but that's all it was. Look at the production and not the interviews.

He's a winner FLAT OUT ....a winner that should be mentioned with the names of Peyton Manning and Drew Brees.
He's not a good player, he's a generational player.

Since Murray hasn't taken an NFL snap, yet, you have to put this into context, regarding Manning, Brees, et al...and compare to them in college...Manning = Never played for or won a championship...in fact, Tennesse won the Championship the year AFTER Manning graduated (with Tee Martin). Brees was good in college, too, and he got his team to Bowl games, but they never played for a championship, either. If we're compaing Murray to "Winners", why not mention Tim Tebow?

 

[oaken1]

But the projections were based on him declaring for the NFL, not based on someone rolling the dice with a draft pick and find out later if he wanted to play or not. He is a RS junior so he has to declare is intent to play pro football within 7 days from the end of the champ game and get league approval to enter the draft since his eligibility wasn't used up. When he declared is the same day he announced he was only playing football. At that point in time many were still skeptical there was a path to a first round selection. It was only after the hype machines and smokescreens started that his projections started ramping up and a month ago basically everyone still had him as the 3rd QB drafted.

All the hype benefits everyone who help guide that narrative ... League, media and KM camp.

It was widely reported that Murray requested a draft grade but it never leaked out as far as I heard. When you get a good grade it leaks. Haskins got a 1st round grade. Insiders seemed to be settling it would come back 2nd or 3rd round. I'm guessing that is why he said he said 100% he would play baseball and not football.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sp...eisman-trophy-stats/vxav4u4kvaa11unq8yylaf94j

Even the very day before declaring for the NFL and saying he for sure wouldn't play baseball his camp was negotiating with the As to get a bigs contract with guaranteed money which would mean the As would need to carry him on the 40 man roster while he was playing in the minors.

Let's be real here... Murray would be playing baseball if he thought there was more guaranteed money in it. It was only once the hype machines started to move the needle that he could guarantee more short term money in the NFL that he flipped that way. I don't blame someone from making a decision based on money, but don't talk about comittments and honor and all that and do about face.

He was 100% baseball only, no doubt, NFL is not a chance until the day of the NFL deadline and then he was 100% football only and now MLB is not a chance. I feel like the people on the Az fans on KM train missed the entire saga and doesn't have any qualms about someone who gave a club his word up and down and then flip flopped.

he also owes the A's some bonus money back doesnt he?? I heard 3 mil from somewhere...if he gets drafted and the slot doesnt provide enough cash to pay that back he will likely just play baseball anyway.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Not from this Horns fan . I didn’t think VY was a good enough passer. I was driving the Leinart train to Super Bowls lol

Btw Jim thx for your scouting info I believe it was yesterday. Sorry haven’t been on much lately

I don't know Buckybird, I see a lot of the similar wrist flicking passes on intermediate stop routes within the interior of the field by Murray which I saw in Young

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Not from this Horns fan . I didn’t think VY was a good enough passer. I was driving the Leinart train to Super Bowls lol

Btw Jim thx for your scouting info I believe it was yesterday. Sorry haven’t been on much lately

No problem.

I wasn't singling you out on Young. It's just that we hear about these "generational" players every couple years. Vince Young was supposed to be one. So was Marcus Mariotta. The last "generational" player that I can remember remotely living up to the hype is Andrew Luck.

I mean, the hype on Murray hit its crescendo at the combine when he performed that amazing athletic feat of being 5'10.

Then, I think it's hilarious that he points to his high school accomplishments. It's not like Murray played for the little sisters of the poor. Allen High School has been a state contender for years and will continue to do so long after Murray. Like every state, there are about 3-5 big schools with a legit shot at winning the state. I guess maybe Allen coach Westerberg should have been named Head coach at A&M, Texas, or another major college based on his high school record.

Point being, high schools' relevance to the NFL is ludicrous.