Is Stone salvageable?

[Northern Card]

Originally posted by JeffGollin
No.

YES...

 

[Tangodnzr]

Re: Re: Is Stone salvageable?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by JeffGollin
No.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by Northern Card
YES...

Now let's not argue and get personal here guys.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

Stone is salvageable, and I really agree with Tango. The guy had two, maybe more DC's in college so he was playing on instinct. He got one shot at CB with the Cards before getting moved to safety. In the Viking's preseason game, Stone looked good at CB. He got two pass interference calls but one of them was b.s. He then got hurt for the season. With some good coaching, he might work out. You can never have too many good corners, so he'll at least get a shot at camp.

 

[vikesfan]

Uh why is it that your mind needs to be eased about Solomon? He is a quality NFL coach. Solomon was coaching defensive players on a #1 defense and a #6 defense in the NFL.

Pendergast will be the defensive coordinator. He is not the co-DBs coach to say that is both insulting and false.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Vikesfan...it was your comments about Green that eased my mind a little in regard to some of the doubts I had concerning him.
I have accepted that your version is indeed, at least viable, and possible. But you are starting to worry me again with some of your seemingly over-zealous defenses of him.

I've been at the point where I felt comfortable with giving him the benefit of the doubt. So far, I have to admit, I have no real complaints about anything he's done so far. In fact, I'm impressed.

Please quit worrying me like this.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Vikesfan...it was your comments about Green that eased my mind a little in regard to some of the doubts I had concerning him.
I have accepted that your version is indeed, at least viable, and possible. But you are starting to worry me again with some of your seemingly over-zealous defenses of him.

I've been at the point where I felt comfortable with giving him the benefit of the doubt. So far, I have to admit, I have no real complaints about anything he's done so far. In fact, I'm impressed.

Please quit worrying me like this.

Tango, for all we know, Vikesfan could be Green.... Probably not, but after reading the post about Josh reading the boards, ya never know...

I WANT THE DRAFT TO START!!!!!!

 

[vikesfan]

Huh?

You believe what you want dude.

Anytime someone posts some BS on here I will call them on it. I wasn't even refering to you but another poster.

1 Solomon is the DB coach.

2 Pendergast is the DC he is not anymore focused on DBs then any other defensive position.

3 To say so is insulting to Solomon.

4 Solomon was the victim of hate attacks in Minnesota partially motivated by racial reasons.

5 I ain't gonna let that BS start up here without putting my 2 cents in. If the secondary sucks next year it is not necesarrily Solomon's fault.

P S I have noticed a lot of posts saying DG or the coaches will turn this guy around or that guy around and so on. There is a limit to what coaches can do if the players lack talent or motivation. DG believes everyone needs to carry their own water. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken s@#%.

P P S if you need reassurance:
9 straight years without a losing season and missed playoffs one time in those 9 years. 2 coach of the year awards. 4 division titles. Rebuilt the team two times. #1 scoring offense of all time.
#1 defense and #6 defense in the nfl during his reign. NCAA coach of the year. A SB ring as an assistant. Best record in the nfl over his tenure, top 10 ALL TIME. 2 nfc finals and a divisional final lost to sb champs. etc...

 

[Tangodnzr]

yep...yer startin' to worry me.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

Originally posted by vikesfan


P S I have noticed a lot of posts saying DG or the coaches will turn this guy around or that guy around and so on. There is a limit to what coaches can do if the players lack talent or motivation. DG believes everyone needs to carry their own water. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken s@#%.

I hear ya, but you haven't been around here for that long. We've had a coaching staff for the last few years that showed NO growth as far as players were concerned. Very few players grew during their stay in Arizona, so we fans really have no idea how good these players can be when they actually get "coached". You know just like I do that Green can coach. That's why we are excited. Some players should really emerge as footballers this season, and others will disappear.

 

[vikesfan]

Originally posted by Oran
I hear ya, but you haven't been around here for that long. We've had a coaching staff for the last few years that showed NO growth as far as players were concerned. Very few players grew during their stay in Arizona, so we fans really have no idea how good these players can be when they actually get "coached". You know just like I do that Green can coach. That's why we are excited. Some players should really emerge as footballers this season, and others will disappear.

Exactly. Some guys will cut themselves; and others will jump on the DG train. DG was very good at developing players and getting in players who could play and win. And yes he had some busts too, it happens.

It is fascinating to see what DG will do with the Cards. If he turns this franchise around like I think he will, wow! He is interested in and driven to win a SB - end of story. We haven't made the playoffs since he left and we had the number one offense in the NFL.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
I know this may be hard....but.....would you please go back and actually read completely through your post again?

For something that is purportedly "rather to the point", I guess maybe I'm a little dense or something. I'm not sure just what your point is? Are You? Just exactly what IS your real point with your last couple of posts??????

I hope you didn't get dizzy re-reading your post. You seem to have the "talent" for talking/arguing in circles that often end up being in really nothing more than word games.

Why is that the comments I have made about Michael Stone seem to upset you so much?

What IS ....YOUR....point???

Tango, you utterly amaze me. When faced with the fact that you are wrong, as you quite clearly are, you'll try anything to duck out of admitting it. You'd have to be an idiot to NOT realize what I've been trying to say, so I'll spell it out very simply. Are you ready? Are you sure? Good, now, the next paragraph will be exactly what I want to ask you...and why I want to ask it.

Where do you come off saying Stone has talent? Coming out of the draft, he showed good raw physical qualities and upside. What talent has he ever shown at the NFL level?

Now, as ******** as you'd have to be to NOT understand what I was saying before, you'd have to NOT be able to read or comprehend English to miss the point here. That, or have a third grade reading level.

You know, man, you often have very good points. You're not a moron, although your actions belie that often, if simply through lack of interpersonal skills and sheer arrogance. It's when you start acting high-and-mighty, make brash and often silly comments, and refuse to admit mistakes (and duck outright when someone calls you on them), when you lose all credibility you've earned.

Stone hasn't shown ANY talent. DEAL WITH IT.

Ugh. Now I await your next witless and irrelevant response. I expect you to insult me, put down my style, and conveniently forget to answer the content of the post. Prove me wrong. I dare you.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

While we await Tango's next post, I would like to say that I don't recall ever seeing Stone make a play.

Maybe in preseason he's had an int or two, but Hill has produced 100x more in the regular season than what Stone has.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Amazing, simply Amazing !

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Amazing, simply Amazing !

Yes, the way you are ducking his question is amazing.

 

[Tangodnzr]

What's to explain.??

So a couple of schoolboys are having a bad hair day or something. So what?

Where's Jim O's dead horse ?

 

[cardsunsfan]

you forgot your eyeroll

 

[Stout]

Tango. You're wrong. Admit it. You're looking really stupid, you know. You claimed he's shown talent. He hasn't. Either *try* and substantiate it or say you were mistaken.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

Tango and Stout: PM each other with this crap. Talk about football. Please.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Oran
Tango and Stout: PM each other with this crap. Talk about football. Please.

I'm talking football. Someone said Stone had talent. In a football sense, I think that's dead wrong.

Of course, I've played hell trying to keep it on that track, but oh well. *shrug*

 

[red desert]

Originally posted by Stout
Tango. You're wrong. Admit it. You're looking really stupid, you know.

Now there's a surprise.

 

[JeffGollin]

There is a limit to what coaches can do if the players lack talent or motivation.
While I'm prone to accept Vikes' take on Solomon (since he was closer to the situation) and accept his word of caution with regard to "coachability", I'd like to add this tidbit from Jurecki - who popped up on FoxSportsAZ last night with a revealing piece of info.

He reports that position coaches have individually contacted every Cardinal player and stressed the importance that every player living in or near the Valley forego working out privately with personal trainers and instead get their butts into the Cardinal training facility.

He added that LJ Shelton (who previously has worked out privately) has been seen at the facility along with Anthony Clement and Cameron Spikes.

This is one small example of the "new way" vs. "the old way" of doing things. What I'm hoping is that there will be lots of other "new ways" which will collectively represent a quantum leap in improvement between this year's approach to off-season training/conditioning and coaching vs. the way things were done in recent years.

Vike may be right about chicken salad, but remember that there's only a certain amount of "chicken" Dennis and his staff has to work with - we don't have the resources to throw out all the old chicken and go out and buy a completely fresh supply.

So while I buy into Vike's note of caution, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that a major part of our problems has had to do with coaching and that new approaches brought in by Denny will turn things around.

 

[kerouac9]

The reason that Stone isn't salvageable as a starting DB (I personally think that he can play gunner on special teams) is because his hips are WAY too stiff for the NFL.

For all the good things about Mac, he was a horrible talent evaluator. He drafted Mike Stone too high, and has virtually no value now. He'll be the third safety on the depth chart at either position, and, because of the lack of "roll" in his hips (which you need to make "the turn" on WRs on deep routes/sharp cuts), he's almost totally useless as a cornerback.

Tango seems to think that seasons spent on IR don't count on their contracts. Wrong again, Tango. Stone is a RFA this season or in the final year of his deal (I think it's the last year. As a second-round pick, he should have the same 4-year deal that KVB got). The greatest value that Gilmore and Stone have to the Cards right now are as gunners on special teams. Including ST standout LB LeVar Woods, that's three primary special teamers on the roster. That might be one too many. Woods was the ST MVP and has a lot of promise as a backup OLB. Stone has a lot to prove this camp in his value to this franchise as a special teamer.

As a defensive back, Stone's NFL career is finished.

 

[Northern Card]

Curious... who says STONE has the "rolling hips" problem other than K-9?

I mean, by that... quoting someone who is a professional talent evaluator...

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by Northern Card
Curious... who says STONE has the "rolling hips" problem other than K-9?

I mean, by that... quoting someone who is a professional talent evaluator...

I think it's kind of standard knowledge:

Michael Stone Cornerback

Section 11:

I had about a 3.5 gpa in Architecture, and I'm pretty sure I have better turn in my hips than Stone does.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Northern Card
Curious... who says STONE has the "rolling hips" problem other than K-9?

I mean, by that... quoting someone who is a professional talent evaluator...

Hmm, I know the scuttlebut on this has been kicked around here a lot, but that means nothing, of course. I'm thinking maybe from the camp reports we were getting, or from the coaching staff???

This is mere conjecture on my part, however. I seem to recall hearing it. That's about as decisive as I can be.

So I guess I really answered your question soooo well, huh? Sorry, bro.