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Agreed. If we are made to suffer watching this every week, the rest of the season on TV, so should he from the sideline.
Is there a reason why we don't fire Kliff today?
- Thread starter badgercardingb
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Cardsfaninlouky
ASFN Lifer
Probably because he's in the first year of a five year deal & Bidwill has already taken enough heat from all the **** happening this season. Not to mention the **** he caused by signing these 2 bozos to 5 year deals. That last part alone (5 year deals) makes it harder to can KK until the season ends, he would be the laughing stock of the NFL if he did it now imo if he isn't already lol? He's gonna wait & fire KK on black Monday & then the reports will start to surface as to why he fired him & who he's trying to hire. These NFL insiders pay people inside every team to give them info I'm sure. Like I said in another thread, I'm gonna have a little faith & say that Bidwill has something up his sleeve. He just looked too calm in the owners box on MNF after the Kyler injury while sitting with the Governor.
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Cardsfaninlouky
ASFN Lifer
Either way, I think he's toast on black Monday lol.This is totally wrong.
His 5 year deal starts next year.
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Not me. I want a woman who'll do stuff to me in the car on the way to meet Mom lol
You and everyone who thinks it was a bad call to try a two-point conversion after the last TD are just plain wrong. There's no rational argument to kick the extra point there. This guy explains it as well as anyone.
Trailing by 15 in the middle of the 4th quarter, teams are foolish to not go for 2 after touchdowns
Let’s start with the obvious: your odds of winning when trailing by 15 in the 4th quarter are really, really low. From 1994, the first season the two-point attempt was introduced to the NFL, to 2011, 68 teams have entered the 4th quarter trailing by exactly 15 points. Only one of those teams...
www.footballperspective.com
...dave
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Dafuq you talking about, not a bad call? You keep the game a 1-possession game every freaking time. Love how the article just seems to brush past the "sure, you demoralize your team" angle. But, but it's more demoralizing to lose with seconds left? Balderdash. How about getting your nuts stomped in and then having to go out there and score twice? Dumb de dumb dumb DUMBBBB!You and everyone who thinks it was a bad call to try a two-point conversion after the last TD are just plain wrong. There's no rational argument to kick the extra point there. This guy explains it as well as anyone.
Trailing by 15 in the middle of the 4th quarter, teams are foolish to not go for 2 after touchdowns
Let’s start with the obvious: your odds of winning when trailing by 15 in the 4th quarter are really, really low. From 1994, the first season the two-point attempt was introduced to the NFL, to 2011, 68 teams have entered the 4th quarter trailing by exactly 15 points. Only one of those teams...
...dave
Phrazbit
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This has been a season, so profoundly bad that I am at a loss.
I hated the extensions when they happened, as many here did. They've played out worse than anyone could fathom.
Keim is gone, that seems for sure, I suspect Kingsbury gets a year under a new GM (likely AW), which will be a waste of time. Also, if AW is our "head scout" then, as much as I loved the guy as a player... yikes.
In just about 12 months this franchise has gone from being one that I envisioned as being in the mix for a long while to being probably the most hopeless franchise in football.
Oof.
I hated the extensions when they happened, as many here did. They've played out worse than anyone could fathom.
Keim is gone, that seems for sure, I suspect Kingsbury gets a year under a new GM (likely AW), which will be a waste of time. Also, if AW is our "head scout" then, as much as I loved the guy as a player... yikes.
In just about 12 months this franchise has gone from being one that I envisioned as being in the mix for a long while to being probably the most hopeless franchise in football.
Oof.
Phrazbit
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Rethinking the last post...
We're not the most hopeless franchise.
That honor goes to the Browns and Broncos. While all 3 franchises just pissed away hundreds of millions on QBs that are unlikely to win a single playoff game, at least we didn't give away years of our draft to do so.
We're not the most hopeless franchise.
That honor goes to the Browns and Broncos. While all 3 franchises just pissed away hundreds of millions on QBs that are unlikely to win a single playoff game, at least we didn't give away years of our draft to do so.
Pokinmik
Rookie
Nah that article didn’t sway me at all. Extending the game and keeping the pressure on the other team is the most significant thing. The other team’s butt cheeks tighten up when only down 8 instead of 9 and crazy stuff is more likely to happen.
If I owned the team kliff would be the water boy. I'm paying him thats what he is doing. Hopefully he quits.
What's DUMB is playing to lose more slowly, rather than playing to win. If you want to WIN, you go for two as early as possible, so you know how to plan your remaining time.
Imagine you're down 8 with 2 minutes to go. Do you try to use up the whole two minutes and score with no time remaining, so as not to leave the opponent with time to score a game winning FG? Or do you try to score as quickly as possible, to leave yourself time for an onside kick and another FG drive? You don't know which to do because you don't know whether you'll make the 2-point conversion.
Go for it earlier and then you'll either be down by 7 or 9 and you'll be able to maximize your chances of winning. That's the name of the game... Not "keeping (false) hope alive until it's too late".
...dave
P.S. There are some point margins where the advantage of kicking or going for two depends on the time remaining... But after snoring to reduce a 15-point deficit to 9 points is not one of them. Expected win percentage is ALWAYS higher by going for two early in that scenario.
When To Go For 2, For Real
“I can’t help but ask, one day many years later, when you find your previous awareness, cognition and choices are all wrong, will you keep going along the wrong…
Last edited:
Jetstream Green
Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
You only have a few games left, it's irrelevant if they fire him now or after the season and it does not stop Michael from already considering a new coach as he is reportedly doing for the vacant GM position. Makes no sense now to shuffle the current coaching staff with a temporary solution
When to attempt the two-pointer is always debatable, although I personally cleave towards the “keep your win chances alive as long as you can” strategy of waiting until you absolutely need it.
Now, here’s something upon which we can all agree as being REALLY dumb: those five-year extensions. Oh yeah, and the #BIRDCITY hashtag.
Now, here’s something upon which we can all agree as being REALLY dumb: those five-year extensions. Oh yeah, and the #BIRDCITY hashtag.
Buckybird
Hoist the Lombardi Trophy
Sorry Dave I don’t give a damn what that says...probably the same analytical fools who give these coaches the going for it info.You and everyone who thinks it was a bad call to try a two-point conversion after the last TD are just plain wrong. There's no rational argument to kick the extra point there. This guy explains it as well as anyone.
Trailing by 15 in the middle of the 4th quarter, teams are foolish to not go for 2 after touchdowns
Let’s start with the obvious: your odds of winning when trailing by 15 in the 4th quarter are really, really low. From 1994, the first season the two-point attempt was introduced to the NFL, to 2011, 68 teams have entered the 4th quarter trailing by exactly 15 points. Only one of those teams...
...dave
Bottom line is, think about this:
If you get the 2 points how many possessions are you down? One. If you kick the xtra point, how many possessions are you down? Yep the same one!!! If you fail in the 2pts how many possessions are you down? Two. Ballgame! End of story, lights out, end of discussion imo.
TRW
ASFN Addict
At this point it doesn't matter. Finish the season and make the decision to move on or rinse and repeat next season. Who knows what this loser of an owner will do?
Your logical fallacy is that you think if they kick the extra point, they're down one possession. That's only true IF they make the two-point conversion later. If they don't make the two-point conversion later, they weren't really down by one score - they just FALSELY THOUGHT they were, and wasted time trying for one more score when in reality they needed two - keeping false hope alive and planning to lose more slowly.
At the time of the decision, you don't know whether you'll make the two-point conversion or not, and you're no more likely to make it at the end of the game than earlier. So it's better to try earlier and know the outcome of the two-point conversion, so you can plan to maximize your chances of winning.
To argue otherwise is to compare a scenario where you know you missed the two-point conversion earlier, with a scenario where you think you might make it later. That may make it seem appealing to people, but it's erroneous thinking.
Anyone who argues otherwise doesn't understand math, logic, decision theory, or probabilities, and is just being emotional. And is wrong. And THAT is the end of the discussion for me.
...dave
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DVontel
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Not sure what’s the big deal of the 2pt conversion decision.
We should be thanking Kliff for that to zap any hope of a comeback by still making it a 2 score game instead of 1.
We should be thanking Kliff for that to zap any hope of a comeback by still making it a 2 score game instead of 1.
If you bring in a new coach, Kyler won’t be able to fully invest in the new scheme (I think Kyler sucks) even with his documented lack of work on his skills. It will take a disaster and drop an atomic bomb on it.
New GM who will “evaluate” Kliff for a year and then get a new HC after Kyler has fully healed and reset.
Kyler’s injury really has messed up the timeline and options
Lol what more is there to evaluate of Kliffy? He’s got 4 years of tape… enough is enough - you want to further impede the development of any young players we have on the team?
Stout
Hold onto the ball, Murray!
#1: You should always be playing as fast as possible in a comeback, unless you're about to score to take a lead/tie the game for certain and don't want to leave the other team time.What's DUMB is playing to lose more slowly, rather than playing to win. If you want to WIN, you go for two as early as possible, so you know how to plan your remaining time.
Imagine you're down 8 with 2 minutes to go. Do you try to use up the whole two minutes and score with no time remaining, so as not to leave the opponent with time to score a game winning FG? Or do you try to score as quickly as possible, to leave yourself time for an onside kick and another FG drive? You don't know which to do because you don't know whether you'll make the 2-point conversion.
Go for it earlier and then you'll either be down by 7 or 9 and you'll be able to maximize your chances of winning. That's the name of the game... Not "keeping (false) hope alive until it's too late".
...dave
P.S. There are some point margins where the advantage of kicking or going for two depends on the time remaining... But after snoring to reduce a 15-point deficit to 9 points is not one of them. Expected win percentage is ALWAYS higher by going for two early in that scenario.
When To Go For 2, For Real
“I can’t help but ask, one day many years later, when you find your previous awareness, cognition and choices are all wrong, will you keep going along the wrong…fivethirtyeight.com
#2: You just pretend sports psychology doesn't exist, which is funny and not true.
These guys kill me.
Evaluates was in quotes.
Ouchie-Z-Clown
I'm better than Mulli!
Does that article take into account kliff’s time management? Putting yourself in a position where you may need two scores may be the “right” call statistically for most scenarios, but virtually never for kliff.What's DUMB is playing to lose more slowly, rather than playing to win. If you want to WIN, you go for two as early as possible, so you know how to plan your remaining time.
Imagine you're down 8 with 2 minutes to go. Do you try to use up the whole two minutes and score with no time remaining, so as not to leave the opponent with time to score a game winning FG? Or do you try to score as quickly as possible, to leave yourself time for an onside kick and another FG drive? You don't know which to do because you don't know whether you'll make the 2-point conversion.
Go for it earlier and then you'll either be down by 7 or 9 and you'll be able to maximize your chances of winning. That's the name of the game... Not "keeping (false) hope alive until it's too late".
...dave
P.S. There are some point margins where the advantage of kicking or going for two depends on the time remaining... But after snoring to reduce a 15-point deficit to 9 points is not one of them. Expected win percentage is ALWAYS higher by going for two early in that scenario.
When To Go For 2, For Real
“I can’t help but ask, one day many years later, when you find your previous awareness, cognition and choices are all wrong, will you keep going along the wrong…
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