Is Vick really good?

[seesred]

Mike Vick great athlete horrid QB. He looks worse than any of our QB's against the Jets. BUt man is he strong and fast. He will never play a full season though. So if you had to pick..Warner..Mccown or Vick who would it be? By the way his brother plays a lot like him.

At this very moment...McCown. He can run and throw

GBR
40

 

[Ryanwb]

Vick is a 54% career passer. He is totally overrated IMO.

 

[arthurracoon]

Pure passing wise, Id take Warner.

I do not take Vick. Until he learns to become a pocket passer (as well as run) he will not lead the Falcons to a Super Bowl.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Haven't we been over this? Vick is so much better than McCown it's not even funny.

Neither is any good at passing the ball but Vick gets around a RB's share of yardage every year with his legs. Plus Vick wins and leads Top 10 offenses and makes Pro Bowls and all those other pesky things Josh only dreams about.

 

[arthurracoon]

Haven't we been over this? Vick is so much better than McCown it's not even funny.

Neither is any good at passing the ball but Vick gets around a RB's share of yardage every year with his legs. Plus Vick wins and leads Top 10 offenses and makes Pro Bowls and all those other pesky things Josh only dreams about.

I do agree with that.

 

[moklerman]

Plus Vick wins and leads Top 10 offenses

I think you mean he's "carried by" a top 10 offense.

and makes Pro Bowls

The pro-bowl is largely, if not completely, a popularity contest. The fact that Vick made it there as a novelty has nothing to do with his ability as a qb.

I think the NFL Network guys put it nicely when they said that Vick was a great backup...to Warrick Dunn. A 16.3 qb rating while the team is up by 20+ points? The guy is the most overrated qb I've ever seen. He can't stay healthy, complete 50% of his passes and seems to be completely unaware that an NFL offense has two guys assigned to play wide receiver.

His scrambling ability leads to more sacks and fumbles than anything else and it boggles my mind that his job is untouchable. Can anyone imagine if say, Warner put up the kind's of numbers that Vick did tonight? He's coddled and protected by the NFL propoganda machine and Atlanta will never win a Super Bowl with him at qb.

 

[vince56]

I think you mean he's "carried by" a top 10 offense.

Don't forget the running game. Running game, top 10 defense, heck, moklerman, you and I could be the #1 and #2 QBs and the team would still win most of it's games.




ok, maybe not

 

[CaptTurbo]

Haven't we been over this? Vick is so much better than McCown it's not even funny.

Neither is any good at passing the ball but Vick gets around a RB's share of yardage every year with his legs. Plus Vick wins and leads Top 10 offenses and makes Pro Bowls and all those other pesky things Josh only dreams about.

Before I would have taken Ryanwb over Mcown at QB. But, through hard work, McCown has improved a bit. Now Id take my neice over McCown.

(Sorry Ryan, but she has a quicker release than you)

 

[Duckjake]

Before I would have taken Ryanwb over Mcown at QB. But, through hard work, McCown has improved a bit. Now Id take my neice over McCown.

(Sorry Ryan, but she has a quicker release than you)

Using the McCown O'meter as a guide I'd have to go with Vick who is something like 25-12-1 as a starter.

He'd also solve our problem with running the football.

 

[AzWins23]

I said it once, and i'll say it again. Vick is the most overrated football player in the NFL...Yes, he can run, but it doesn't make him a great or even a good quarterback...THe defense, and the running game makes Micheal Vick...He is nothing but average

 

[Russ Smith]

He's not a great passer and Atlanta will always have "underachieving" WR's like Jenkins and Roddy White as long as Vick plays the way he does. But you can't argue with the results, Atlanta is the best run team in the NFL because of Vick, and they conver 41% of their 3rd downs because he's such a good runner teams can't fall back in zones because it gives him too much room to run.

He's not pretty to watch as a passer for sure, and he does take too many sacks, but he's the reason they're so good running the ball, they average 5.4 per rush because of his presence.

 

[the wild cards]

All Vick does is win games. They put in their back up QBs and he doesn't win at the same percentage as Vick. When Vick got hurt. They had the same defense and they had the same running game and they had one of the worst records in the NFL.


Vick doesn't have to be a pocket passer. Vick doesn't have to do anything except win games. And he does that at an incredible rate. If they would win when Vick is not in there you might have a point but they don't. They lose way more then they win when he is out. So it is Vick.

Whatever he does wins NFL games. Call him a RB if you want. Call him a Flex Back. Call him anything you want. But his skills win games for the Falcons. His runs. His passes. What he does to a defense. Add up to Ws and that is all that matters. The reason the other players vote him to the Pro Bowl is because he gets Ws. - players respect Ws.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

The point is he wins...

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Vick is the most overrated player in the league.But, i'm going to contradict myself, he puts as much pressure on the defense as any QB because of what he does as a runner.He can't beat you passing the ball and that's what the good defenses make him try to do.

 

[CardinalLaw]

Vick by far. I think he is is overrated also, but he wins games. He is Mike Vick, Whats his record since being in the league, and whats the teams record when he is not playing. All this I hear about Josh being a winner. Mike Vick, Big Ben, and Tom Brady are winners.

 

[moklerman]

They put in their back up QBs and he doesn't win at the same percentage as Vick.

Man, am I tired of the team's record being used as a qb statistic. By this rationale, Ben Roethlisberger is the greatest qb of all time. Or, how about Steve Young during his Tampa Bay days.

Comparing "his" success against his backups is a little unfair too. The backups have been Doug Johnson, Kurt Kittner and Matt Schaub. Two of those guys aren't even in the league anymore and Schaub put up 298 yards, 3 td and 0 interceptions against New England this year.

As a matter of fact, that's a great example. "Schaub" lost to New England despite his performance but "Vick" won against the Jets on Monday night. Vick did everything he could to lose that game for the Falcons, but "he's just a winner".

I agree that teams have to be concerned with his speed but I'm pretty sure most teams are content to box him in and live with his combined yardage passing and running (averaging 171 yards/game with 8 TD and 12 turnovers). Add to that, he's averaging more ypa rushing than passing (6.2 to 5.7(!)). So, his rushing is what makes him great? I think the league has caught on. His ypa is the lowest it's ever been and his passing is getting worse. It just may be that teams are focusing on him so much that they completely disregard the rb's for Atlanta but I'm somewhat doubtful.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

The reason why Vick wins is because who wins a football game generally comes down to about 8 or 9 plays. They are pivotal moments.

We have seen so many of them against us this year. Vick makes those plays, which is why he has star status.

His overall QB game is pedestrian at best, but he is nearly unrivaled at his ability as a playmaker.

 

[Duckjake]

I agree that teams have to be concerned with his speed but I'm pretty sure most teams are content to box him in and live with his combined yardage passing and running (averaging 171 yards/game with 8 TD and 12 turnovers). Add to that, he's averaging more ypa rushing than passing (6.2 to 5.7(!)). So, his rushing is what makes him great? I think the league has caught on. His ypa is the lowest it's ever been and his passing is getting worse. It just may be that teams are focusing on him so much that they completely disregard the rb's for Atlanta but I'm somewhat doubt

The TV guys were talking about this during either the game or post game.

The point they made about what makes Vick so valuable is his running ability makes him a threat to score in the red zone. Because of this teams have to assign personnel to account for him. This gives Atlanta a better opportunity to score TD's instead of FG's.

I haven't seen enough Atlanta games or their redzone scoring with Vick compared to without him to know if this point is valid but it appears to make sense.

 

[moklerman]

The reason why Vick wins is because who wins a football game generally comes down to about 8 or 9 plays. They are pivotal moments.

I don't watch every Atlanta game but every time I've seen them the defense and running game carry the team and affect the outcome much more than anything Vick does. True, it seems that Vick is Mr. Playmaker but I think that's due more to the NFL/ESPN hype machine than anything else.

Kind of like when Tiger Woods plays in a golf tournament. He wins a lot and is the best out there but regardless of how he's doing, they're going to show highlights of him. Let's see a highlight of every swing Tiger made today, then at the end an "oh, by the way" golfer "X" is winning the tournament and has a 15 stroke lead on Tiger.

Back to Vick, keep in mind that the Michael Vick experience has given the fans 8 td's in 6 games. That's less than or equal to 16 other qb's in the NFL right now.

 

[Duckjake]

Back to Vick, keep in mind that the Michael Vick experience has given the fans 8 td's in 6 games. That's less than or equal to 16 other qb's in the NFL right now.

But he has almost twice as many yards rushing and 3 more TD's than our leading ball carrier.

I'd also bet that we'd be at least 4-2 now if he were our QB.

 

[moklerman]

I'd also bet that we'd be at least 4-2 now if he were our QB.

Too bad we won't ever know because I'd take that bet. Vick plays behind the best coached offensive line in football. Gibbs, who came from Denver when they were racking up pro-bowl rb's, has taken three 6th rounders a 7th rounder and an undrafted free agent and turned them into the best unit in the league.

In spite of that, Vick still get's sacked a lot. His rushing totals go down every year and his passing totals don't go up and actually seem to be getting worse as well.

But he has almost twice as many yards rushing and 3 more TD's than our leading ball carrier.

Vick: 1025 total yards 8 TD 12 TO's (behind the best line in football)
McWarner: 1865 total yards 6 TD 11 TO's (behind the o-line we've all come to know and love).

Now, if we were comparing rb's to rb's, I'm pretty sure Dunn/Duckett/Griffith stack up pretty well against Shipp/Arrington/Ayenbedajio(sp?)

Lastly, Atlanta's backup qb Matt Schaub, who I'm pretty sure isn't known as a runner, has 6 rushes for 59 yards (9.8 ypc) while playing qb this year. I don't think Atlanta would lose much at all if Vick was replaced by Schaub now that he's had time in the system.

 

[john h]

Mike Vick great athlete horrid QB. He looks worse than any of our QB's against the Jets. BUt man is he strong and fast. He will never play a full season though. So if you had to pick..Warner..Mccown or Vick who would it be? By the way his brother plays a lot like him.

At this very moment...McCown. He can run and throw

GBR
40

How can this question even be posed? You got to be some kind of Josh fan to think anyone would chose Josh over Mike Vick. This is a total no brainer.

 

[john h]

Haven't we been over this? Vick is so much better than McCown it's not even funny.

Neither is any good at passing the ball but Vick gets around a RB's share of yardage every year with his legs. Plus Vick wins and leads Top 10 offenses and makes Pro Bowls and all those other pesky things Josh only dreams about.

He also has a canon for an arm. Very hard for teams to defend the Falcons.

 

[john h]

Using the McCown O'meter as a guide I'd have to go with Vick who is something like 25-12-1 as a starter.

He'd also solve our problem with running the football.

Your McCown o'meter and mine read very much the same. Who had you rather have JJ or Tomlinson? That is a similar queston.

 

[john h]

The point is he wins...

The other point is he wins and wins.