Is Vick really good?

[kerouac9]

We held him in check and DG knew exactly how to play him.

We lost the game because Josh fumbled like a bizzilion times but honestly the way we played him is the way to do it.

Don't rush him, hold your blocks, clog the lanes and let him throw.

If he got to be even an average passer, he'd shred that and be all world.

Really? Because I remember that the biggest killing play of the day was authored by Vick when he scrambled for 30-odd yards to get a first down and put the game out of reach?

And he continually kills "good defenses" like the Carolina Panthers, which was supposed to storm the NFC South this season. Vick doesn't win games with his arm the way other QBs do, but he is the biggest nightmare for D-coordinators throughout the league. I bet that coordinators would rather face LT week in and week out than Vick. The only defense that seems to have a bead on the guy is Tampa.

The long and short of it is that a 300 yard passing day from Matt Schaub is not enough to win a game for the Falcs (as was the case against the Pats), but a 167 yard passing day from Vick leads to a dominant road win (against the Bills). The team plays better when #7 is on the field, and there's no more dangerous player in the NFL for that reason. Oh, and he's only 25 years old.

He's younger than David Carr, Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Josh McCown. He's the same age as John Navarre, and had a lot less playing experience. Maybe there's a reason that he's not a polished passer, but he has a ton of time to learn. I guess that some people are bothered that he keeps taking his team to the NFC Championship game while he does.

:sourgrapes:

 

[Redsz]

The long and short of it is that a 300 yard passing day from Matt Schaub is not enough to win a game for the Falcs (as was the case against the Pats), but a 167 yard passing day from Vick leads to a dominant road win (against the Bills).

You cannot compare the Patriots and Bills as a case in point to why Vick is 'better'. The Bills aren't half the the team the Patriots are.

 

[Duckjake]

You cannot compare the Patriots and Bills as a case in point to why Vick is 'better'. The Bills aren't half the the team the Patriots are.

This year it looks a lot more even. Good thing about this is that we'll actually get to see if you are right because they still have to play twice.

 

[BigDavis75]

Too bad we won't ever know because I'd take that bet. Vick plays behind the best coached offensive line in football. Gibbs, who came from Denver when they were racking up pro-bowl rb's, has taken three 6th rounders a 7th rounder and an undrafted free agent and turned them into the best unit in the league.

In spite of that, Vick still get's sacked a lot. His rushing totals go down every year and his passing totals don't go up and actually seem to be getting worse as well.


Vick: 1025 total yards 8 TD 12 TO's (behind the best line in football)
McWarner: 1865 total yards 6 TD 11 TO's (behind the o-line we've all come to know and love).

Now, if we were comparing rb's to rb's, I'm pretty sure Dunn/Duckett/Griffith stack up pretty well against Shipp/Arrington/Ayenbedajio(sp?)

Lastly, Atlanta's backup qb Matt Schaub, who I'm pretty sure isn't known as a runner, has 6 rushes for 59 yards (9.8 ypc) while playing qb this year. I don't think Atlanta would lose much at all if Vick was replaced by Schaub now that he's had time in the system.

Are you serious? I key in on O-Line in any game I watch and can analyze it as good as anyone on this board. Atlanta's line is middle-of-the-pack. Forney, I hope, makes the Pro Bowl this year. He deserves it. McClure is around a top-12 C. The other 3 stink. Weiner is terrible in the run game and Shaffer is mediocre at best. Lehr is just as bad and really restricts Vick on draws and what not. Due to his mediocre O-Line Vick has to throw the ball away a decent amount; a low comp. %. Vick is one of the best players in the NFL. Face it. He changes a game like no one else, Bo Jackson did the same thing back in the day. His D isn't that great this year, so that argument isn't as strong as it ued to be. As far as you using Big Ben as an example, Yes he deserves to be ranked among the best QBs in the league. I have watched every single one of his pro games from start to finish and he is one of the best in the business.

 

[Assface]

Vick IS overrated.

I'd take him over our QBs in a heartbeat.

Vick is better than what we have but there are at least a dozen QBs I'd rather have then Vick.

 

[BigDavis75]

Vick is better than what we have but there are at least a dozen QBs I'd rather have then Vick.

Name them.

 

[Assface]

Name them.

Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Tom Brady
Carson Palmer
Donovan McNabb
Daunte Culpepper
Drew Bledsoe
Brett Favre
Byron Leftwich
Trent Green
Matt Hasselback
Ben Roethlisberger
Drew Brees
Mark Brunell
Steve Mcnair
and I would add Chad Pennington to the list if he was healthy. That's half of the starting QBs in the league that I would rather have than Vick right now.

 

[BigDavis75]

Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Tom Brady
Carson Palmer
Donovan McNabb
Daunte Culpepper
Drew Bledsoe
Brett Favre
Byron Leftwich
Trent Green
Matt Hasselback
Ben Roethlisberger
Drew Brees
Mark Brunell
Steve Mcnair
and I would add Chad Pennington to the list if he was healthy. That's half of the starting QBs in the league that I would rather have than Vick right now.

The one's I left un-highlighted are the ones I would maybe maybe take over Vick. Vick has nearly the least taleneted team out of all of these and has one of the best winning %s. I know its your opinion, but I don't see how anyone can say they would take the likes of Leftwich, Pennington, Bledsoe, and choker-Hasselback over Vick.

 

[moklerman]

The one's I left un-highlighted are the ones I would maybe maybe take over Vick. Vick has nearly the least taleneted team out of all of these and has one of the best winning %s. I know its your opinion, but I don't see how anyone can say they would take the likes of Leftwich, Pennington, Bledsoe, and choker-Hasselback over Vick.

Boy, I don't know about that statement.

Has everyone forgotten about Kordell Stewart already? He was just like Vick when he hit the scene and he just wasn't a qb. Vick won't make it two more years. He's either going to get injured and lose his job to a guy like Schaub or he's going to play himself out of job. Each year, his rushing ypa have gone down and is the lowest of his career this year. He's still fast but he's had what, two serious leg injuries already? Running qb's just don't keep it up.

 

[Southpaw]

Why can't the Vick pumpers be staisfied that he is a great athlete and a smelly QB. Right now Atlanta can ride Vick until the whole league figures him out or he gets injured,because they have Schaub on the bench.

If anyone remembers Steve Young early days, he was very similar to Vick until the 49ers staff convinced him he was hurting the team. Steve McNair was the same way. Culpeper was the same way. They all converted and have had great HOF careers. Michael's brother Marcus is a better QB right now.

 

[moklerman]

The long and short of it is that a 300 yard passing day from Matt Schaub is not enough to win a game for the Falcs (as was the case against the Pats), but a 167 yard passing day from Vick leads to a dominant road win (against the Bills).

So, when the Falcons score 24 being led by Vick, that's more productive than when they score 28 led by Schaub? Is this some kind of new math or something?

Are you serious? I key in on O-Line in any game I watch and can analyze it as good as anyone on this board.

You may not be seeing the forest for the trees. Individually, each of Atlanta's lineman may not be a prototypical blue-chipper, but as a unit, it's hard to argue with their success. Dunn is matching is career best in YPC (also with Atlanta) and the backup qb is averaging over 9 YPC when he takes off with the ball. It can't all be in spite of the o-line can it?

Vick is better than what we have but there are at least a dozen QBs I'd rather have then Vick.

The offense you're going to use is the most important factor here. I happen to think the WCO is a terrible fit for Vick, but I also think that the wishbone offense is about the only good fit for him. Actually, if I was a Falcons fan I would be happy as pie to trade Vick for Warner(let's not get into draft picks or contracts or whatever, I'm just talking "fit" for the offense). At least a guy like Warner. I've always thought he was perfect for the WCO. It's a precision-based offense and if nothing else, Warner is still one of the most accurate qb's around.

 

[BigDavis75]

So, when the Falcons score 24 being led by Vick, that's more productive than when they score 28 led by Schaub? Is this some kind of new math or something?
You may not be seeing the forest for the trees. Individually, each of Atlanta's lineman may not be a prototypical blue-chipper, but as a unit, it's hard to argue with their success. Dunn is matching is career best in YPC (also with Atlanta) and the backup qb is averaging over 9 YPC when he takes off with the ball. It can't all be in spite of the o-line can it?
The offense you're going to use is the most important factor here. I happen to think the WCO is a terrible fit for Vick, but I also think that the wishbone offense is about the only good fit for him. Actually, if I was a Falcons fan I would be happy as pie to trade Vick for Warner(let's not get into draft picks or contracts or whatever, I'm just talking "fit" for the offense). At least a guy like Warner. I've always thought he was perfect for the WCO. It's a precision-based offense and if nothing else, Warner is still one of the most accurate qb's around.

The run production has a ton to do with Vick. If he rolls he either occupys the WOLB or th DE on that side. It is much like the gut option/ reverse play the Broncos have ran to success. Actually watch the line, they are not that good. Dunn has had success everywhere because he is one of the best in the NFL, he ran behind a not so great Bucs line when McDaniel was the only good one. I can probably name 5-10 lines I would rather have.

You would honestly trade Vick for Warner? This has to be a joke.

 

[BigDavis75]

Boy, I don't know about that statement.

Has everyone forgotten about Kordell Stewart already? He was just like Vick when he hit the scene and he just wasn't a qb. Vick won't make it two more years. He's either going to get injured and lose his job to a guy like Schaub or he's going to play himself out of job. Each year, his rushing ypa have gone down and is the lowest of his career this year. He's still fast but he's had what, two serious leg injuries already? Running qb's just don't keep it up.

I am the biggest Kordell fan around but he had a much different style from Vick. He never rushed for over 550 and only rushed for over 500 once. Also, Kordell never averaged over 6 a carry. His highestr average was in 1995 when he was still a reciever.

 

[AzWins23]

Vick sucks!!

 

[CaliCards]

I'd take Vick as a Qb because he seems to be able to read the D and find holes to run and gain crusial downs..........

While his passing % is not impressive, that's not what always win games.

The best poket passer gets killed when the O-Line can't hold up.....so, for me, I don't care how my team win. As long as its a win.

 

[Tashunca]

His brother is a better passer than Michael. He might be risky as a GENTLEMAN though.