Isaiah Simmons

[juza76]

By continually missing on picks, especially high picks your roster is more reliant on overpaying FA's instead of retaining your own talent.

Yes, one Jonathan Cooper does not kill a team. But looking at the last 10 years of drafting in the 1st round, miss after miss have left us with an awfully bare cupboard.

2013	7	Jonathan Cooper	North Carolina	G
2014	27	Deone Bucannon	Washington State	S
2015	24	D. J. Humphries	Florida	T
2016	29	Robert Nkemdiche	Ole Miss	DT
2017	13	Haason Reddick	Temple	LB
2018	10	Josh Rosen	UCLA	QB
2019	1	Kyler Murray*	Oklahoma	QB
2020	8	Isaiah Simmons	Clemson	LB
2021	16	Zaven Collins	Tulsa	LB
2023	6	Paris Johnson Jr.	Ohio State	OT

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An interesting breakdown of pro bowlers by draft position, and the pain of missing on a high pick.

after drafting Murray we all agree about building a solid offensive line in order to protect our undersize franchise qb, and Keim went with 2 Ilbs, must be stupidity or sabotage

 

[kerouac9]

By continually missing on picks, especially high picks your roster is more reliant on overpaying FA's instead of retaining your own talent.

Yes, one Jonathan Cooper does not kill a team. But looking at the last 10 years of drafting in the 1st round, miss after miss have left us with an awfully bare cupboard.

2013	7	Jonathan Cooper	North Carolina	G
2014	27	Deone Bucannon	Washington State	S
2015	24	D. J. Humphries	Florida	T
2016	29	Robert Nkemdiche	Ole Miss	DT
2017	13	Haason Reddick	Temple	LB
2018	10	Josh Rosen	UCLA	QB
2019	1	Kyler Murray*	Oklahoma	QB
2020	8	Isaiah Simmons	Clemson	LB
2021	16	Zaven Collins	Tulsa	LB
2023	6	Paris Johnson Jr.	Ohio State	OT

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

An interesting breakdown of pro bowlers by draft position, and the pain of missing on a high pick.

I think there are a couple of flaws in this.

It's obviously too early to say anything about PJJ. There's a narrow chance that Collins becomes a solid starter (although unlikely to get his fifth-year option picked up).

Kyler and Humphries got second contracts. Those are hits. Humphries got a third contract.

We've been to the playoffs three times in this cataclysmic period. I think we might even have an overall winning record.

None of this is to let Keim off the hook. He sucked. But this isn't really why.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I think there are a couple of flaws in this.

It's obviously too early to say anything about PJJ. There's a narrow chance that Collins becomes a solid starter (although unlikely to get his fifth-year option picked up).

Kyler and Humphries got second contracts. Those are hits. Humphries got a third contract.

We've been to the playoffs three times in this cataclysmic period. I think we might even have an overall winning record.

None of this is to let Keim off the hook. He sucked. But this isn't really why.

One winning season since Arians left 5 years ago- .500 overall, with almost all the success with Arians.

The odds of Collins being both good and on the Cards next year? We'll see. Kyler a hit? Seems far too early for that.

 

[DVontel]

Why do people here keep acting like Simmons was the undisputed BPA like Wirfs wasn’t being preached on here beforehand?

Crap like that is aggravating.

 

[PACardsFan]

Oh yeah. Without a doubt.

Ouchie and I were dancing and jumping around, celebrating at Coachella when we finally saw each other midday after watching the draft separately that morning.

That was back in the day when the draft was all day Saturday & Sunday. I was out with the family looking to buy a picnic table for our patio. Leinart kept falling & I was coming to grips with the possibility that he may be there for us. We were looking at a table that I actually liked when the pick came through. I immediately jumped up on it & did a celebration dance. I jumped off & told the salesperson "We'll take it" When Leinart eventually busted, I cut the table into a few equal parts & put it out with the trash lol.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That was back in the day when the draft was all day Saturday & Sunday. I was out with the family looking to buy a picnic table for our patio. Leinart kept falling & I was coming to grips with the possibility that he may be there for us. We were looking at a table that I actually liked when the pick came through. I immediately jumped up on it & did a celebration dance. I jumped off & told the salesperson "We'll take it" When Leinart eventually busted, I cut the table into a few equal parts & put it out with the trash lol.

Ha!

 

[ASUCHRIS]

That was back in the day when the draft was all day Saturday & Sunday. I was out with the family looking to buy a picnic table for our patio. Leinart kept falling & I was coming to grips with the possibility that he may be there for us. We were looking at a table that I actually liked when the pick came through. I immediately jumped up on it & did a celebration dance. I jumped off & told the salesperson "We'll take it" When Leinart eventually busted, I cut the table into a few equal parts & put it out with the trash lol.

The draft was so much more enjoyable when it was Saturday/Sunday. Felt like Christmas those days growing up.

 

[Chopper0080]

Why do people here keep acting like Simmons was the undisputed BPA like Wirfs wasn’t being preached on here beforehand?

Crap like that is aggravating.

It is surprising to me as well. The Jeudy/Lamb debate was going full. The Wirfs/Becton/Wills debate was solid. Some people liked Kinlaw as well.

There were legitimately 6 other players who were debated for that pick other than Simmons.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think there are a couple of flaws in this.

It's obviously too early to say anything about PJJ. There's a narrow chance that Collins becomes a solid starter (although unlikely to get his fifth-year option picked up).

Kyler and Humphries got second contracts. Those are hits. Humphries got a third contract.

We've been to the playoffs three times in this cataclysmic period. I think we might even have an overall winning record.

None of this is to let Keim off the hook. He sucked. But this isn't really why.

I can't see a realistic scenario they would pick up his option either. They will have to extend him prior if they want to keep him.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Why do people here keep acting like Simmons was the undisputed BPA like Wirfs wasn’t being preached on here beforehand?

Crap like that is aggravating.

Why do people keep putting words into other's mouths?

Crap like that is aggravating.

 

[Chopper0080]

Why do people keep putting words into other's mouths?

Crap like that is aggravating.

because this was stated in this thread.

"The best player regardless of position was the pick in both cases. Unfortunately, the "Best Player" label is not only subjective, but technically, it's also a gamble you are making."

 

[dreamcastrocks]

because this was stated in this thread.

"The best player regardless of position was the pick in both cases. Unfortunately, the "Best Player" label is not only subjective, but technically, it's also a gamble you are making."

By people? Or one person?

 

[Chopper0080]

There is a world where our 2020 1st round pick's 5th year option isn't picked up, same with our 2021 1st round pick's option, and then we don't re-sign the player we traded our 2022 1st round pick for. Kinda gross.

 

[Chopper0080]

By people? Or one person?

That was a post by one person...I don't care enough to search for more...commenting on the use of people vs person seems like an interesting nit to pick.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

That was a post by one person...I don't care enough to search for more...commenting on the use of people vs person seems like an interesting nit to pick.

Except that there is a huge difference between one person's opinion, and forecasting that opinion to people.

For the record, I thought Simmons was the BPA at the time, at a position of need. I won't say that was the consensus though.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Except that there is a huge difference between one person's opinion, and forecasting that opinion to people.

For the record, I thought Simmons was the BPA at the time, at a position of need. I won't say that was the consensus though.

Once he was available, I think that was the consensus though.

IIRC, most mocks had Simmons long gone before pick 8. Once he was there at 8, most were ecstatic and wanted the Cards to run their card to Goodell to select him.

 

[Chopper0080]

Once he was available, I think that was the consensus though.

IIRC, most mocks had Simmons long gone before pick 8. Once he was there at 8, most were ecstatic and wanted the Cards to run their card to Goodell to select him.

Many mocks had Will Levis and Malik Willis as 1st round picks as well. I love mock drafts but I also recognize they don't generally reflect how the league views players.

That is how PFF gives Josh Jones a 1st round grade and the Cardinals draft him in round 3.

It is why many people thought the idea of Anthony Richardson being a top 5 pick was ridiculous and yet, that is where he was drafted.

Simmons was always a highly athletic player with questionable instincts and no real position in any scheme. He was more hyped by people who didn't have to figure out how to use him and protect him.

 

[Chopper0080]

This was from NFL.com and should have been the first red flag. When you look back, those are some really glaring weaknesses in terms of playing LB and playing in space.

Strengths

• Rare versatility and matchup potential around the field
• Allows coordinators freedom in game-planning
• Explosive run-and-jump athlete
• Second gear makes sideline-to-sideline range elite
• When it spills wide, runners have no chance
• Loose core should allow him to slither around blocks
• Coil and strike-stopping power as open-field tackler
• Superior finisher with length and agility for expansive tackle range
• Unlocks exotic blitz packages and disguised coverages
• Long speed to check seam-runners and wheel routes
• Pain to try and throw over from zone
• Can cover ground and close the gap in coverage
• Aggressive to slap and dislodge throws
• Could be antidote for zone-read and spy-needy quarterbacks

Weaknesses

• Instincts near the line of scrimmage are a work in progress
• Delayed read and respond as inside linebacker
• Hasn't figured out angles and timing as downhill linebacker yet
• Needs to fill out and learn to punch and play off blocks
• Has issues getting unglued from blocking tight ends
• Will lose contain duties from time to time
• Doesn't have early speed burst from transitions in man
• Confusion with coverage duties against North Carolina
• Leggy short-area footwork in change of direction

 

[Chopper0080]

Keim is so bad.

No instincts, slow to read and react, bad pursuit angles, and struggles to disengage from TE blocks. Let's make him an ILB!

 

[HairZach]

People were so mad that Hicks kept getting time over Simmons. Simmons is entering year 4 and Hicks is still 10x the player Simmons is.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Simmons had a very good scouting report and was considered a top prospect. I may know someone that confirmed it for me.

The main problem is like any draft pick. It’s not really when you were selected, it’s where.

Simmons and Collins both suffered the same fate. They had Bill Davis coaching them their formative years.

 

[Chopper0080]

Simmons had a very good scouting report and was considered a top prospect. I may know someone that confirmed it for me.

The main problem is like any draft pick. It’s not really when you were selected, it’s where.

Simmons and Collins both suffered the same fate. They had Bill Davis coaching them their formative years.

The big miss on Simmons was the emphasis put on the good parts of his report vs the bad. When you read the NFL.com write up, it highlights what people dismissed in favor of tremendous athletic gifts. That is why I laughed at Keim's decision to put him at ILB, the one position where instincts, angles, and quickness in reading and reacting are as or more important than athleticism.

Maybe his career ends up differently with a different coach or at a different position, but in the end, Simmons had a much more narrow path to success than most wanted to admit.

 

[Russ Smith]

Simmons had a very good scouting report and was considered a top prospect. I may know someone that confirmed it for me.

The main problem is like any draft pick. It’s not really when you were selected, it’s where.

Simmons and Collins both suffered the same fate. They had Bill Davis coaching them their formative years.

I doubt that Davis helped him but IMO he's just not an ILB and I said it when we picked him. He's not horrible but where he was picked and what he was picked to do that he's now playing safety is an indictment of Keim. When we picked Antron Rolle early I said he's not a CB he's a safety, when he moved to S he became a pretty good player. The problem with Simmons is I don't think he's going to be a good S either.

I wanted Jeudy who's had his own issues but still a better player. Wirfs obviously better, Lamb too. Just a huge mistake.

 

[Stout]

I'm the king of silly arguments, but seriously everyone, this is a silly argument. I think we can all agree he hasn't made the grade, yes?

 

[Dr. Jones]

Why do people here keep acting like Simmons was the undisputed BPA like Wirfs wasn’t being preached on here beforehand?

Crap like that is aggravating.

Between the two prospects, the historical evidence is overwhelming that Simmons was the better prospect and BPA between the two of them. Any attempt to change that fact 3 years later really isn’t serving any purpose IMO.

Wirfs wasn’t even a consensus top 2 OT in that draft. I get you had a strong opinion but the evidence is there.

On the question of who got it right, clearly Wirfs is better, and also better than two of the three OT’s drafted before him and the two drafted after IS but before Wirfs.

It wasn’t undisputed, but it was definitely weighted towards IS. I remember debating Becton just as much if not more than Wirfs predraft.