Issues

[Mitch]

1. "See You on Wednesday"---for a game of this magnitude, as I iterated at the time in terms of capitalizing on momentum and getting the team ready for its toughest task of the season---this was a regrettable decision---and speaks to Whisenhunt's inability to properly focus and motivate the entire football team.

2. Offensive game planning---have said this repeatedly and have to say it again---there is NO offensive game planning. Whisenhunt runs the same plays at every team---he does not break down enough film to detect a weakness in the other team, because every week he rolls out the same predictable plays...case in point---#3

3. 2nd and 2. It make absolutely NO sense to go into shotgun and throw a three yard pass into coverage on 2nd and 2. We have been saying this for several weeks right now. If you are going to pass on 2nd and 2 it's off play-action and you take a long intermediate or deep shot---and THEN if it's not there you go to the checkdown.

4. I am not excusing Skelton for his bad throws---he was bad---and the IRONY was his pass protection was about as good as it has been all year, although last second hands in his face altered several of his passes.

5. For those of you who are happy that Skelton stunk---you are now going to get your way. We have seen the last of Skelton for this year unless both Kolb and Bartel get hurt. Knowing Whisenhunt and what faint praise he's given Skelton all along, Skelton was never his guy anyway.

6. Part of the reason is---Skelton is not the right kind of QB for Whisenhunt's finesse dink and dunk offense---which is why drafting him was a joke.

7. I will stay on record and say that despite today's flat-out awful performance by Skelton---put him with a power running game and a HC who understands play action and how to exploit a defense from beyond 12 yards---and I see no reason why he can't be very effective.

8. Now that we say goodbye to Skelton---let's just give him credit for doing two things in the last 2 games:

Breaking a six game losing streak
Breaking an 11 game road losing streak

And LAST year for breaking a 7 game losing streak.

Thank you, John.

But, sorry--John---with Whisenhunt, not good enough.

You are back to being #3. Bartel moves up--and Kolb moves back in when ready.

9. The 49ers' GM and HC are so far ahead now of the Cardinals'---we have to hope and pray that the Bidwills recognize this and find the GM and HC who can match wits with Trent Baalke and Jim Harbaugh.

10. This game was pretty much a total domination---the irony is that the Cardinals with an offensive HC and one who tilted the draft and FA heavily in favor of the offense---since last year the only improvement we saw versus the 49ers today was on defense and STs---and the DC is new. Yup. "See you on Wednesday."

11. PP21 = DRC today. That bad.

12. Guys who showed up:

Levi Brown
Daryn Colledge
Lyle Sendlein
Rex Hadnot
Brandon Keith/Jeremy Bridges
Larry Fitzgerald
Dan Williams
DD & CC
Paris Lenon
Daryl Washington
Stewart Bradley
Sam Acho
LSH
Mike Adams
Dave Zustadil

13. Lastly---two coaching decisions that make no sense whatsover:

Calling a TO before 3rd down to try to get the ball back late in the first half---then stopping them short on 3rd down and then NOT calling the 2nd TO and letting Harbaugh run the clock down under a minute.

Squib kicking the kickoff with a totally gassed defense (instead of trying for the on-sides with the one surge of momentum the offense had in the whole game)---down 16 points. with 7:32 left.

14. This game was pure torture---especially the 49ers running out half of the 3rd quarter on their first drive of the second half---for a TD---against a Cardinals' defense that had been on the field the entire game thus far.

 

[Wildfire]

Well Stated Mitch. Well Stated.

There is supposed to be a light at the end of every tunnel, but all I see right now is a HC who seems to be happy in the dark and does'nt have a clue.

Been a fan since the early 60's and today's game ranks up in the top ten or fifteen worst played games by the offense that I've had to watch.

Again, thanks for the "right on" write-up.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

#3. I don't know if we're talking about the same play, but if it's Seklton's INT, LSH was absolutley wide open in the flat. 2nd and 2 is one of the easiset passing downs there is. To throw an INT into what looked like triple coverage is inexcusable. I don't know why Skelton looked so bad today but in two starts against SF he has been outscored 61-7. He seemed to have plenty of time but he was just didn't have it today. Also, having off until Wednesday had little to do with the outocme in my book.

 

[Duckjake]

2. Offensive game planning---have said this repeatedly and have to say it again---there is NO offensive game planning. Whisenhunt runs the same plays at every team---he does not break down enough film to detect a weakness in the other team, because every week he rolls out the same predictable plays

The 49ers' GM and HC are so far ahead now of the Cardinals'---we have to hope and pray that the Bidwills recognize this and find the GM and HC who can match wits with Trent Baalke and Jim Harbaugh.

I don't know why Skelton looked so bad today but in two starts against SF he has been outscored 61-7.

What is it with Whisenhunt and the 49ers? Cards scores the last 5 games v SF 16,9,6,7,7 with four TDs total. FOUR TDs in 5 games!

CKW's offense couldn't even score on SF with Warner at QB.

 

[Russ Smith]

#3. I don't know if we're talking about the same play, but if it's Seklton's INT, LSH was absolutley wide open in the flat. 2nd and 2 is one of the easiset passing downs there is. To throw an INT into what looked like triple coverage is inexcusable. I don't know why Skelton looked so bad today but in two starts against SF he has been outscored 61-7. He seemed to have plenty of time but he was just didn't have it today. Also, having off until Wednesday had little to do with the outocme in my book.

I was going to ask the same question which time into coverage are we talking about and why would someone assume the design of the play was to throw into triple coverage. 3 of his first 5 passes were into at least double coverage and 2 of those were triple coverage. The first pick there was double coverage the ball was behind and if the 2 guys who tipped and picked it didn't get it there was a 3rd defender behind them coming up who may have gotten it. That ball just can't be thrown there.

Side question but am I the only one surprised Fitz didn't catch that throw from Bartel in the endzone? He reached for it but seemed to make very little actual effort, Whitner was several inches higher than him over the top which you almost never see from Larry on a high pass. It seemed to me after he got his TD he sort of letup.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

What is it with Whisenhunt and the 49ers? Cards scores the last 5 games v SF 16,9,6,7,7 with four TDs total. FOUR TDs in 5 games!

CKW's offense couldn't even score on SF with Warner at QB.

"The system works"

 

[Buckybird]

"The system works"

but many of those players in the system still suck as well IMO

 

[Duckjake]

but many of those players in the system still suck as well IMO

To me if the same results occur with different players but the same coach its the coach. Although I do agree we have some players with real issues. But that's only because they all just need more time to adjust to the system.

Of course with the Cardinals they have the same results with different players and different coaches so its the organization.

Wait a minute. The coaches change, the players change but the hard core fans stay the same. It's our fault.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

but many of those players in the system still suck as well IMO

The real issue is; Whis doesn't know which players fit his system, and doesn't know what system fits the players. He doesn't know how to make adjustments, he doesn't know how to put players in positions to succeed, etc.. The saying has been said about him many times, and he continues to prove it, "You can't fit a square peg in a round hole". You could give Whis Aaron Rodgers, and he would be a bottom 10 QB within a year. Anderson, Hall, Leinart, Skelton, and Kolb all have very, very similar stats, common denominator: Whisenhunt. He's an OC that has no idea how to develop QB's, or how to scheme an offense to fit that specfic QB. If Warner had actually listened to Whis and ran his plays, this team never would've made it to the playoffs.

 

[Buckybird]

The real issue is; Whis doesn't know which players fit his system, and doesn't know what system fits the players. He doesn't know how to make adjustments, he doesn't know how to put players in positions to succeed, etc.. The saying has been said about him many times, and he continues to prove it, "You can't fit a square peg in a round hole". You could give Whis Aaron Rodgers, and he would be a bottom 10 QB within a year. Anderson, Hall, Leinart, Skelton, and Kolb all have very, very similar stats, common denominator: Whisenhunt. He's an OC that has no idea how to develop QB's, or how to scheme an offense to fit that specfic QB. If Warner had actually listened to Whis and ran his plays, this team never would've made it to the playoffs.

While you're right, blame the whole staff & scouts for their part too. Wiz isn't making every decision on the players this team selects & gets in FA!!! I really can't imagine Wiz ignoring a scouts input & ability to play within "his system". I'm not buying that crap. Why would someone work for such a person...I just think many's hatred for Wiz clouds the reality of the entire situation. Everyone's to blame for this roster.

 

[Duckjake]

Something I don't understand is that with all the rules favoring the passing game why is it that NFL offenses have to be so complex that it takes years to master them and that only 5 or 6 people in the entire world have the skills to be elite NFL QBs?

 

[conraddobler]

Something I don't understand is that with all the rules favoring the passing game why is it that NFL offenses have to be so complex that it takes years to master them and that only 5 or 6 people in the entire world have the skills to be elite NFL QBs?

Or you can just draft Tebow and run a pro option offense and win.

I think a lot of this stuff has simply gotten out of hand in terms of over thinking things.

Alex Smith can now win games, there's a lot of bad coaches out there is what I think.

 

[Chopper0080]

I didn't see any coaching issues today, and so I'm not sure what game you were watching. Our team came out ready as displayed by our solid defensive effort. Our QB showed who he was and despite being put in position to make plays, he didn't and showed that he is over matched at this level.

I laugh that people have so many issues with Whis as a head coach because he is actually a pretty solid one. It is his personnel decisions that make me shake my head and wish we had a competent GM to give our decisions balance.

 

[LarryStalling]

Well why do you think people hate on him so much. His personnel issues reek, his play calling is predictable, and his leadership though improving still leaves a lot to be desired. Plus, I think you will find that many players don't care for him which is one reason our retention of vets is so very poor.

 

[Hollywood]

I didn't see any coaching issues today, and so I'm not sure what game you were watching. Our team came out ready as displayed by our solid defensive effort. Our QB showed who he was and despite being put in position to make plays, he didn't and showed that he is over matched at this level.

I laugh that people have so many issues with Whis as a head coach because he is actually a pretty solid one. It is his personnel decisions that make me shake my head and wish we had a competent GM to give our decisions balance.

I am with you on this. The difference between good and bad play calling is usually execution. When it work the coach is a genius and when it doesn't he is predictable and a moron. Whis is a good coach with a bad team.....actually it isn't really a bad team it is just a new team. To many new parts to expect it to run smoothly right out of the gate.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

I am with you on this. The difference between good and bad play calling is usually execution. When it work the coach is a genius and when it doesn't he is predictable and a moron. Whis is a good coach with a bad team.....actually it isn't really a bad team it is just a new team. To many new parts to expect it to run smoothly right out of the gate.

Once again, that falls on Whis. He put together the roster, these are all 'his guys'. He might be an average coach, but he is by far the worst talent evaluator in the NFL. If he is such a great coach, why has every QB under him failed miserably? Again, the only reason why Warner was as successful as he was, is due to the fact that he defied Whisenhunt's play calling, and he was already a polished QB. You give Whis a young, talented QB, and he coaches them into mediocrity. If this team had a Real GM, then Whis 'might' have a chance, but with Graves, he is doomed to fail. Can you imagine him being the HC of the 49ers with Smith as the QB, they would definitely have a losing record right now, no doubt about it.

 

[Buckybird]

What is it with Whisenhunt and the 49ers? Cards scores the last 5 games v SF 16,9,6,7,7 with four TDs total. FOUR TDs in 5 games!

CKW's offense couldn't even score on SF with Warner at QB.

Mitch has said it many times around this board & he's spot on about the differance in toughness & physicality of each team. They hit the Cards in the mouth with a shovel & we retaliate fly swatters.

Bickley wrote a good article about this

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/car...-cardinals-toughness-san-francisco-49ers.html

 

[Duckjake]

I am with you on this. The difference between good and bad play calling is usually execution. When it work the coach is a genius and when it doesn't he is predictable and a moron. Whis is a good coach with a bad team.....actually it isn't really a bad team it is just a new team. To many new parts to expect it to run smoothly right out of the gate.

These are all good points. The downside is that they are almost the exact same things we heard last year.

 

[cardpa]

I am with you on this. The difference between good and bad play calling is usually execution. When it work the coach is a genius and when it doesn't he is predictable and a moron. Whis is a good coach with a bad team.....actually it isn't really a bad team it is just a new team. To many new parts to expect it to run smoothly right out of the gate.

Whiz is the only common denominator here. Every QB under his tutelage has failed except Warner. This is Whiz's offensive system which has also failed. How can one think that Whiz has little or nothing to do with the miserable mess this team is? He is a mediocre coach with mediocre ability. That is why he was never considered for the head position in Pittsburgh. Cowher new what Whiz was.

If Whiz is not the problem then how can one explain why Harbaugh has taken the same team he inherited from Singletary and turned it around with the same personnel? It's a simple answer and that is knowing how to put the players in position to succeed and recognizing their limitations, their strengths and their weaknesses. The other reason is accountability and expectations. I believe Harbaugh will not accept mediocre play. The level of what he expects from the players is much higher than Whiz.

Put a coach like Harbaugh here and I would bet that this teams record would be flipped.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I am with you on this. The difference between good and bad play calling is usually execution. When it work the coach is a genius and when it doesn't he is predictable and a moron. Whis is a good coach with a bad team.....actually it isn't really a bad team it is just a new team. To many new parts to expect it to run smoothly right out of the gate.

I agree but I do think Whiz went into the game with notion that the Cards weren't going to be able to run the ball and that is understandable seeing as SF was the #1 rated run defense. However, Wells looked as healthy as he has been in awhile and he was making some nice runs. I think they should have seen what he could do rather than seemingly accept that they couldn't run the ball. I don't bash Whiz too much but I think he didn't adjust his gameplan very well this game. I would have made them stop the run, especially when SF was normally only playing 7 up front. At least in the other games, Stl. and Philly made more of a concerted effort to stop the run by bringing guys to the line. To SF's credit, they basically played their base defense all game and knew the Cards and Skelton weren't good enough to beat them. If Wells started gashing them for 4-5 yards per pop, which looked like may be the case, SF would have had to adjust and maybe the passing game would open up. On the other hand, as bad as Skelton looked they probably could have played with 9 guys on defense and shut the Cards down. I don't know what happened to Skelton's poise and composure out there. He looked like a completely different player. He made Max Hall look good and that's hard to do.

 

[PACardsFan]

I didn't see any coaching issues today, and so I'm not sure what game you were watching. Our team came out ready as displayed by our solid defensive effort. Our QB showed who he was and despite being put in position to make plays, he didn't and showed that he is over matched at this level.

I laugh that people have so many issues with Whis as a head coach because he is actually a pretty solid one. It is his personnel decisions that make me shake my head and wish we had a competent GM to give our decisions balance.

Finally, a voice of reason! We have other issues, but our primary problems are: 1. We need a real GM , 2. QB position is unsettled. When a team loses a HOF QB, who is the WHOLE package, there will be problems. Much better teams than what the Cardinals were under Warner went through similar down times after their qb retired or left: Bart Starr, Bradshaw, Aikman, S Young, Bob Griese, Namath, Lenny Dawson, Elway, Ken Anderson, Warner (Rams). I'm sure there were many more instances.

If we fire Whisenhunt, we will be doomed for another generation, and I don't care who we hire to replace him. It may take another year or two to find the right qb with Whisenhunt. But having to start all over top to bottom would be catastrophic. Stay the course!!!

 

[Catfish]

Add this to the mix-----1. We got positive yards nearly every time we ran the ball. They weren't big gains, most were 3-4 yards, but they were gains nevertheless. Why did we only run once on most series? Our Defense could have used the extra rest by running the clock some. By the way, our O-line blocked well for the run, and was stunning with their pass protection. Too bad Whiz didn't bother to put together a game plan, (aside from his usual predictable run on 1st down, pass on 2nd and third).

Also its clear that Whiz has not bothered to look at any of our own film on Skelton. His play is atrocious for the first three quarters in each game he played. He only has respectable numbers in the 4th quarter of each start. Way to go Whiz, you yanked him before he could shine in the 4th quarter this time. Of course, had you bothered to look at some film you would have seen that. Good Job Coach. (sarcasm)

 

[conraddobler]

I want Whiz fired, I want Graves fired, then I want the team to trade LF and start the F over.

Again.

It's gotten to be that bad.

 

[Mulli]

I want Whiz fired, I want Graves fired, then I want the team to trade LF and start the F over.

Again.

It's gotten to be that bad.

this.

 

[82CardsGrad]

I want Whiz fired, I want Graves fired, then I want the team to trade LF and start the F over.

Again.

It's gotten to be that bad.

I wouldn't go that far... As bad as things were yesterday, if we had even a marginal QB at the helm, we had a legit shot. Our defense did all they could. Played tough. Held Gore to under 4 YPC. Smith completed an ugly 52% of his passes and ended up with an 81 rating...

Graves needs to go. However, it's hard to completely bail on Whiz when "his guy" (Kolb) has missed the last 3 games...
And I see no basis for dumping Fitz... none.