J.R Smith To Denver

[NastyOne]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=rotowire-mithxpectedtobeentto&prov=rotowire&type=lgns

I wonder if D'Antoni is on vacation or something.

First Snyder now Smith go for 2nd rounders, and we're no where to be found.

Smith has a crazy potential and might turn into another McGrady if he works hard, cause the natural talent is already there.

Very good trade for Denver, not likely you'll get someone of his talents in the 2nd round.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Agreed, he might even be worth the 1st rounder Suns/Cavs pick next year, whichever is worse....

Interesting

 

[SunsTzu]

Snyder and Smith may have physical talent but I don't see how they fit with what the Suns want, can hardly fault the Suns for not wanting guys plenty of other teams have not intrest in.

 

[NastyOne]

Snyder and Smith may have physical talent but I don't see how they fit with what the Suns want, can hardly fault the Suns for not wanting guys plenty of other teams have not intrest in.

Big thing with J.R Smith is that he would fit in perfectly in our system.

The guy is a athletic freak that can bomb from long range.

Maybe he just needed to get away from New Orleans and Byron Scott.

 

[asudevil83]

i think both Snyder and Smith would have had a nice fit on this team.

i find fault in the suns for not at least showing interest in guys like these because they could have been had for basically free. instead we spent over a week on a guy (Salmons), who we would have been overpaying for, and eventually lost out on.

these guys were basically had for FREE. our TE and a couple of crappy second rounders would have gotten either of these guys. Both Chicago and NO were looking to unload Smith and Snyder. they were looking for much in return, and we didnt even show interest.

 

[Chaplin]

i think both Snyder and Smith would have had a nice fit on this team.

i find fault in the suns for not at least showing interest in guys like these because they could have been had for basically free. instead we spent over a week on a guy (Salmons), who we would have been overpaying for, and eventually lost out on.

these guys were basically had for FREE. our TE and a couple of crappy second rounders would have gotten either of these guys. Both Chicago and NO were looking to unload Smith and Snyder. they were looking for much in return, and we didnt even show interest.

How do you know?

 

[Joe Mama]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=rotowire-mithxpectedtobeentto&prov=rotowire&type=lgns

I wonder if D'Antoni is on vacation or something.

First Snyder now Smith go for 2nd rounders, and we're no where to be found.

Smith has a crazy potential and might turn into another McGrady if he works hard, cause the natural talent is already there.

Very good trade for Denver, not likely you'll get someone of his talents in the 2nd round.

I'm sorry, but you are seriously overrating JR Smith. You do know this is JR Smith and not Josh Smith, right? The guy is nothing like Tracy McGrady. JR Smith can not defend, and he has absolutely no handles or midrange game. He is all three-pointers and slam dunks. Now that's still my work well in our system, but apparently he's not exactly a team player either.

The Phoenix Suns do not want to bring people in who will disrupt the chemistry of the team. I've covered them say repeatedly that one of the great things about last year's team was the type of players they had.

I won't claim to have watched a lot of footage of these guys, but I get the feeling that you guys want them so badly based on the fact that they were rather big names in a trashed a couple years ago. There's a reason these teams are giving them away. They don't even want to pay their first round contracts.

Joe

 

[Chaplin]

I'm sorry, but you are seriously overrating JR Smith. You do know this is JR Smith and not Josh Smith, right? The guy is nothing like Tracy McGrady. JR Smith can not defend, and he has absolutely no handles or midrange game. He is all three-pointers and slam dunks. Now that's still my work well in our system, but apparently he's not exactly a team player either.

The Phoenix Suns do not want to bring people in who will disrupt the chemistry of the team. I've covered them say repeatedly that one of the great things about last year's team was the type of players they had.

I won't claim to have watched a lot of footage of these guys, but I get the feeling that you guys want them so badly based on the fact that they were rather big names in a trashed a couple years ago. There's a reason these teams are giving them away. They don't even want to pay their first round contracts.

Joe

Amen to that Joe. Of course, it's normal to overrate scrubs in an offseason--especially this one, where for the first time in history we aren't making huge changes--and people are scared because of it. You hit the nail on the head--if teams that have no chance for a championship are giving away Kirk Snyder and JR Smith for peanuts, what makes anyone think those guys are worth any amount of money on a championship-caliber team like the Suns?

I guess you can't blame them, but San Antonio went years without any major changes and they have several championships to show for it. We have had a revolving door of star or all-star players and we have no championships to show for it. It's brave, but it might be time that we did something a little different--and it appears the front office is thinking the same thing.

 

[Folster]

I agree that some may be overrating J.R. Smith. But we are talking about giving up a second round pick and the T.E. not Shawn Marion. As to whether the Suns made no effort to get him, I have no clue. I assume they at least pondered and possibly inquired about him.

 

[Gaddabout]

I agree that some may be overrating J.R. Smith. But we are talking about giving up a second round pick and the T.E. not Shawn Marion. As to whether the Suns made no effort to get him, I have no clue. I assume they at least pondered and possibly inquired about him.

Yes, but what is your tolerance for irritation? What does it cost in untimely turnovers, bad shot selection, and stupid fouls? What does it cost in teammate alienation when, in Game 60 of the regular season, Smith still doesn't understand the defensive rotations ... or seem to care?

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Yes, but what is your tolerance for irritation? What does it cost in untimely turnovers, bad shot selection, and stupid fouls? What does it cost in teammate alienation when, in Game 60 of the regular season, Smith still doesn't understand the defensive rotations ... or seem to care?

Mind you that Joe and company spend hours a day breaking down game film on players so I am generally going to trust their assessment on players that I am admittedly unfamiliar with.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I guess you can't blame them, but San Antonio went years without any major changes and they have several championships to show for it. We have had a revolving door of star or all-star players and we have no championships to show for it. It's brave, but it might be time that we did something a little different--and it appears the front office is thinking the same thing.

uh, not really sure how SA applies to us, considering that they have PROVEN to be able to win titles with how they play the offseason, while as of yet, for whatever reason, we have not. But at the same time, I think you again are projecting exagerrations on to people "wanting major changes" - I may not want JR Smith or Kirk Snyder, but how are they MAJOR changes? They're not, nor would adding FA or trading 2nd round picks for guys or even first round picks. Those aren't called changes, they're called ADDITIONS - which is something the Spurs ALWAYS HAVE DONE.

You talk about the Spurs not making any major changes, and while they have held on to their core (which NO ONE IS ADVOCATING THE SUNS BREAK-UP) the supporting cast has CONSISTENTLY changed since they won their first title. Hell, even starters have changed on those last two title contenders as Bowen, Duncan and Parker are the only starters on both titles, not to mention that they have consistently ADDED guys like Robert Horry, Mohammed, Turkoglu, Finely and Brent Barry via trade or FA.

But if you read the above, you make it seem like they just stand pat which is patently ridiculous.

Top 8 the last 4 years:

So, before, when the Spurs were constantly getting their asses kicked by the Lakers with trash like Derek Anderson starting for them, they didn't stand pat because they knew they weren't a champion, so they had to continue to ADD (not make MAJOR CHANGES) but add to the team.

2003 - TITLE
Bowen, Duncan, Robinson, Parker, Jackson, Ginobli, Rose, Claxton, Kerr

Robinson retired and they actually tried to replace their own FA (something the Suns haven't done in the loss of TT) AND they added Robert Horry and Turkoglu - doesn't seem like standing pat to me. Their top 8 looked like this:

2004
Bowen, Duncan, Rasho, Parker, Turkoglu, Ginobli, Horry, Devin Brown

2nd round loss - the team needed more size, so they ADDED Barry and Mohammed and drated Udrih who played some minutes against us, hitting a couple big 3s and their top 8 looked like this:

2005 - TITLE
Bowen, Duncan, MOHAMMED, Ginobli, Parker, BARRY, HORRY, Rasho and Udrih

Then, they added EVEN MORE the next year - Finley, Van Exel - got them the best record in the league and their top 8 looked like this:

2006
Bowen, Duncan, Mohammed, Parker, Ginobli, Rasho, Finley, Horry, Barry Van Exel.

So, to say SA didn't make any MAJOR CHANGES (but considering that only 2 players remained on the 2003 title team versus the 99 team and only 4 players remained on the 2005 team versus the 2003 team, some could construe that as major change) might be true, but NO IS TALKING ABOUT MAKING MAJOR CHANGES. People are talking about ADDING to what we already have, which up to this point isn't happening and it is somrthing that has sustained SA through a 7 year run with three titles.

But yeah, they basically just stand pat and do nothing all offseason.

 

[Chaplin]

Comparing Mohammed, Horry and Barry to the likes of Marbury, Joe Johnson, Kidd and Penny (of old) seems a little, I don't know, ridiculous.

But hey, you spent a lot of time on that post. Kudos to you.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I guess you can't blame them, but San Antonio went years without any major changes and they have several championships to show for it. We have had a revolving door of star or all-star players and we have no championships to show for it. It's brave, but it might be time that we did something a little different--and it appears the front office is thinking the same thing.

i love that you continue to try to perpetuate this myth that our organization thinks we're fine and that we're not taking any action on purpose and by plan. you're ignoring all the attempts and failures of the year to delude yourself. the team doesn't think it's fine, it's trying to make moves. it's just failing left and right.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Comparing Mohammed, Horry and Barry to the likes of Marbury, Joe Johnson, Kidd and Penny (of old) seems a little, I don't know, ridiculous.

But hey, you spent a lot of time on that post. Kudos to you.

you completely ignore the basis of the argument yet again. where did he compare those two groups? where has ANYONE on this board clamored for those types of changes this offseason? you're making stuff up! we're talking the smiths, snyders, claxtons, salmons, tt's of the basketball world. we're not talking trading our main players. i swear to god chap, sometimes it seems when you've been proven wrong you choose to stop thinking rationally and just go in a different direction. i think cheese pretty much proved you wrong. just admit it for once.

(cue the "of course here comes his brother to stick up for him" routine . . . "

 

[Chaplin]

i love that you continue to try to perpetuate this myth that our organization thinks we're fine and that we're not taking any action on purpose and by plan. you're ignoring all the attempts and failures of the year to delude yourself. the team doesn't think it's fine, it's trying to make moves. it's just failing left and right.

Are you really that dense? Can you even read?

Isn't it OBVIOUS that they are thinking we are "fine" except for a few bench players? I mean, I don't even need to voice that opinion--it's being proven true. Of course, if you want to go ahead and cry that it's because the team is incompetent, that's your choice. I don't agree with you.

List the moves that we all know they are trying to make...

1) Resigning TT--they offered an amount that they said they wouldn't go higher than, and he rejected it. We're not entirely informed on what their reasons are, but I'm not ready to automatically call it incompetence.

2) John Salmons--they offered him virtually the same amount of money as he got from Toronto, except Toronto offered more playing time. It seems that if you or your brother were GMs of the team, you would have raised the offer to him just so he would sign here. What would you be prepared to offer? A starting role? 2 million dollars more? Please.

Those are the moves we know they looked at definitely. As for the rest, it is all speculation, both by you and the media. And yet, you still base the entire season on guys that are NO BETTER than an 8th man on this team. I've never said we don't need anyone else, I just maintain that our whole season is NOT lost, unlike you and cheese.

And that is without considering what exactly they have considered that none of us know and the media have NOT reported.

Please, stop posting just to disagree with me. It's not working.

 

[Chaplin]

you completely ignore the basis of the argument yet again. where did he compare those two groups? where has ANYONE on this board clamored for those types of changes this offseason? you're making stuff up! we're talking the smiths, snyders, claxtons, salmons, tt's of the basketball world. we're not talking trading our main players. i swear to god chap, sometimes it seems when you've been proven wrong you choose to stop thinking rationally and just go in a different direction. i think cheese pretty much proved you wrong. just admit it for once.

(cue the "of course here comes his brother to stick up for him" routine . . . "

sigh.

I talked about how the Suns routinely made somewhat major changes year after year. I think that is an accurate assessment. You don't agree? I also maintained that the Spurs' changes are nowhere near as major as what we did. And IMO, that is an accurate assessment as well. Of course, that's my opinion. Whether you disagree with it or not, it doesn't matter, because you'll just come back with another attacking post, like always.

 

[Folster]

Yes, but what is your tolerance for irritation? What does it cost in untimely turnovers, bad shot selection, and stupid fouls? What does it cost in teammate alienation when, in Game 60 of the regular season, Smith still doesn't understand the defensive rotations ... or seem to care?

If he's that bad then we don't play him. It only cost us a 2nd round draft pick and the TE. It's not like we actually use draft picks anymore anyways, or had grand plans for our TE that is soon to expire.

 

[Joe Mama]

Mind you that Joe and company spend hours a day breaking down game film on players so I am generally going to trust their assessment on players that I am admittedly unfamiliar with.

thanks Chris, but this isn't entirely accurate

Last year I could probably claim that I spend hours a day breaking down game film on players, but this past season I've probably seen less basketball than before I even worked for Synergy. Mostly what Andy and I do each day involves very little actual analysis. Andy deals with client services, and I do day-to-day operations.

Now I CAN easily look up JR Smith and tell you that he averaged 26% on jump shots within 17 feet, 35% on jump shots 17 feet-three point line, and 37% from beyond the arc. 30% of his offense came from spotting up, and he had an excellent PPP of 1.05 in that play type category which put him in the top 84 percentile of the NBA. 72% of those were no dribble jumpers. When he dribbled (jumper or to the basket) he was much better going to his right.

About 20% of his offense came from transitions, and he was rated very good with a PPP of 1.1 for putting him in the 68 percentile. 15% of his offense was from one-on-one ISO plays. He was rated very good with a 0.7 PPP putting him in the 65 percentile. Of course it should be noted that when he drove on an ISO play he was only average shooting just 25%. He was very good on his jumpers without driving with an adjusted field-goal percentage of 50% because most of those were probably three-point shots.

Here's the bottom line. I think the Phoenix Suns are looking for a big guard or swingman who can cover a couple positions. They want someone who is fairly strong defensively, and that is definitely not supposed to be his strong suit. Lastly, I don't think they wanted him in the locker room. I could see them compromising on that standard a little if they were getting a great deal on somebody, but the last thing when they want to do is bring in some young player with an attitude.

Joe

 

[Gaddabout]

Isn't it OBVIOUS that they are thinking we are "fine" except for a few bench players? I mean, I don't even need to voice that opinion--it's being proven true.

Given that the lack of depth played a large role in the last two WCF defeats, no, I don't think we are "fine." Given that Nash's minutes are clearly a problem and this team's history without Nash on the floor is wretched, I don't think anyone should be berated for thinking that should be addressed in some significant kind of way. I think it's something that should be allowed to be questioned at length. (And I'm not even among those screaming about falling skies).

You don't need major players at 8-12, but you do need guys -- at least through 10 -- that can make some kind of positive contribution when called upon. Particularly the way this team plays.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Comparing Mohammed, Horry and Barry to the likes of Marbury, Joe Johnson, Kidd and Penny (of old) seems a little, I don't know, ridiculous.

you're right and considering that I did NONE OF THE ABOVE, I think that makes the above post equally ridiculous.

You know why the Spurs didn't make MONSTEROUS changes when they were winning titles - BECAUSE THEY WERE WINNING TITLES. You know we were making those kind of changes? BECAUSE WE WEREN'T CONTENDERS WITH ANY OF THOSE GUYS. But yeah, maybe the Suns should have stayed pat with those teams and let them continue to be 1st round fodder. That way they could say they were doing the same thing as SA, only doing it at the wrong time.

By the way, I do think, once again, it's funny you accuse people of attcking people when you're claling people dense, bad fans and then insulting their intelligence in other threads. Way to Hyopchap.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Are you really that dense? Can you even read?

Isn't it OBVIOUS that they are thinking we are "fine" except for a few bench players? I mean, I don't even need to voice that opinion--it's being proven true. Of course, if you want to go ahead and cry that it's because the team is incompetent, that's your choice. I don't agree with you.

List the moves that we all know they are trying to make...

1) Resigning TT--they offered an amount that they said they wouldn't go higher than, and he rejected it. We're not entirely informed on what their reasons are, but I'm not ready to automatically call it incompetence.

2) John Salmons--they offered him virtually the same amount of money as he got from Toronto, except Toronto offered more playing time. It seems that if you or your brother were GMs of the team, you would have raised the offer to him just so he would sign here. What would you be prepared to offer? A starting role? 2 million dollars more? Please.

Those are the moves we know they looked at definitely. As for the rest, it is all speculation, both by you and the media. And yet, you still base the entire season on guys that are NO BETTER than an 8th man on this team. I've never said we don't need anyone else, I just maintain that our whole season is NOT lost, unlike you and cheese.

And that is without considering what exactly they have considered that none of us know and the media have NOT reported.

Please, stop posting just to disagree with me. It's not working.

lol. don't flatter yourself chap. i'm posting just to disagree with you, i'm posting because i can't help but disagree with you. you also forgot about the inability to trade up in the draft. that was another attempt and failure. as for the other rumors . . . where's there's smoke there's usually fire. particularly in the nba. and it's like you haven't read a single post that i've posted on any thread for weeks. it's not about money. it's about competency. somehow the previous regime was able to get players to sign on, even for less cash and a lesser role. kinda like the big boys like san antonio and the heat, and lakers of old, do. dollars being even those teams tend to get the players they want. we aren't seeing that with this regime. therein lies our hypothesis of incompetence.

and your phrase "except for a few bench players" makes me laugh out loud. you say that as if they grow on trees! they don't! and that's being proven by our inability to fill out our bench! as cheese and i have said time and again (though you wish to ignore it) we are not saying it is a disaster and that the team is gonna suck next year, far from it, we expect them to be contenders, but they'd be BETTER contenders if those "few bench players" were actually signed and could play some.

but you're right, cheese and i think the season is lost. that's like saying you think amare's surgery was really a sex change and he's become a women. i can say that's what you say and think, but it doesn't make it true.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I've never said we don't need anyone else, I just maintain that our whole season is NOT lost, unlike you and cheese.

again - with the exaggerations - even though Ouchie and I have REPEATEDLY said we're still contenders next year, even though with our poor offseason SO FAR. But hey - when you've got no argument, you make things up hoping that if you repeat such crap, people will eventually just believe it to be, maybe even yourself.

Good work making things up, as usual.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

sigh.

I talked about how the Suns routinely made somewhat major changes year after year. I think that is an accurate assessment. You don't agree? I also maintained that the Spurs' changes are nowhere near as major as what we did. And IMO, that is an accurate assessment as well. Of course, that's my opinion. Whether you disagree with it or not, it doesn't matter, because you'll just come back with another attacking post, like always.

okay, i apologize if my post seemed to attack. or even if it did attack.

but that's not what everyone is advocating and it's not what you seemed to indicate. you said that the suns were taking a stand still approach. we don't need any changes. cheese and i were arguing that the additions they were attempting to make are, by definition, changes. cheese then pointed out that the spurs made changes instead of sitting still as you suggested. that's all.

 

[Mainstreet]

you completely ignore the basis of the argument yet again. where did he compare those two groups? where has ANYONE on this board clamored for those types of changes this offseason? you're making stuff up! we're talking the smiths, snyders, claxtons, salmons, tt's of the basketball world. we're not talking trading our main players. i swear to god chap, sometimes it seems when you've been proven wrong you choose to stop thinking rationally and just go in a different direction. i think cheese pretty much proved you wrong. just admit it for once.

(cue the "of course here comes his brother to stick up for him" routine . . . "

Regarding the last comment above, I prefer to think of it as the two man game. Run properly it is very hard to stop, but I thought it was only supposed to be run against opposing teams not members of the same team... the posters on this Board. I say this comment with only the best intentions to improve communication and not to be later chastised with undue criticism or the frequent default positions of exageration, sarcasm and questioning the IQ of posters. Frankly, I don't think it's polite to call someone dense.

I guess I'm with Ouchie-Z-Clown and Cheesebeef. I don't think anyone is suggesting the Suns need to make major changes. However, targeting and signing a couple of quality role players to fill needs would be helpful. I don't see this happening yet, however, I'm still hopeful. I just think it's dangerous to play the off season in a complacent manner as options are dwindling the more time passes (I certainly hope the problem is not bad or inexperienced management). If injuries occur, the 8th, 9th or 10th man added to the roster may give the Suns the needed depth to win a Championship.

I don't see any trolls present and I think the posters need to treat each other with respect and as equals. I hope I didn't offend anyone.