Jackson, Melton dumped

[Yuma]

Gambo said Suns like Jevon Carter.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Legal problems in college.
Poor rookie year.
Started to play a little better after being benched by Triano.
Did nothing to develop, actually regressed in his first off-season.
Started his second season with historically bad numbers.
Threw his teammates under the bus, and said he did not know how to play bad basketball.
Gets arrested in the summer (I have tried to give him the benefit of the doubt on this)
Accused of getting his baby daughter high on pot (yes, questionable accuser and situation)
In his response, admitted freely to being a pot user. I know many NBA players do, but his level seems to be excessive and it's against the rules.

At some point, you have to say that its just not going to get any better and the cost of keeping him around outweighs the potential benefit of trying to rehabilitate him. I am not sure what is going on behind the scenes but James Jones had to bite the bullet. He did not create this mess, so . . .

 

[JCSunsfan]

You’re missing my point. Instead of making those assets out in earlier trades he rode them down to their lowest value where he had (or at least he thought he had) to attach positive assets to get rid of them. That’s not utilizing your assets to their max. It’s the opposite. It’s what gets most people canned in business.

But did he do that or did McD? I doubt Jackson had much value during this year. He played so badly the first few months of this year that I am sure it looked like it HAD to get better later. I think he just finally figured out it was never going to get better.

I know that was what I was thinking. JJ has to get better.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Gambo I think

So recently

 

[Proximo]

This is my take:

I don’t think we needed to clear $$$. If I’m right we were $14M under cap. If we moved Melton and okobo that got us to $17M. And from everyone on here it seems that okobo Is gone and Melton was traded for nothing, so getting rid of them wasn’t a problem for the team. So they have Enough for Rubio. Could go over cap to resign Oubre. And could use exception to sign kaminsky. So JJ’s contract didn’t need to be moved. If I’m wrong, someone point it out please.

Jones has depleted our war chest of assets. And he has largely done so at their lowest value possible. Selling both TJ and JJ at their respective lows is terrible business.

JJ definitely was a flawed player. And had a flawed character. He was also one of our only guys with really high potential upside. So while I think overall our roster is improved from last season, I think our ceiling has lowered considerably. Here’s my take on our upside:

Ayton - sky is the limit
Booker - somewhat limited (but he’s already a star). I know many will argue but he’s so young! But athletically I think he’s peaked. And when you talk about transcendent players they were physical freaks (MJ, Kobe, LeBron, magic (due to being a 6’9 PG not his athleticism), McGrady, Kawhi, Durant (again, almost 7 footer with amazing movement skills) in some fashion and booker doesn’t have that. Will he get more heady? Yes. Will he become transcendent, I’m dubious at best
Oubre - he could ascend. And he’s got substantial upside but Washington gave him away for peanuts, he remains a poor passer, and even in his brief flash with us he wasn’t dominant. He’s got potential but I’d guess at 50-50 whether he maxes it out
Bridges - potential likely limits him a terrific 3-D guy. His balkhandling or lack thereof and limited athleticism at an already older young guy gives him a ceiling
Rubio - likely at ceiling
Saric - likely at ceiling
Baynes - likely at ceiling
Kaminsky - likely bear ceiking
Cam - likely high floor, low ceiling player unless he really surprises and becomes the next Reggie Miller
Jerome - similar high floor (though not as high as Cam) low ceiling player
Tyler - likely better than last year but he has limited upside
Jevon - likely tops out at Derrick fisher

So while I agree it’s a better collection of nba players and more evenly balanced roster. And it will likely outperform last years team. There’s very little upside, or at least on an individual by individual basis other than Ayton there’s not a lot of individual upside. No others with star power if it could only be harnessed. Which also means the collection of our current “assets” also aren’t likely to appreciate in value for future trades.

And for all JJ’s faults I believe he still had that. And imo Monty may have been the perfect coach to coax that outta him.

And that’s why if Ayton doesn’t become a transcendent player I believe the current iteration of the suns taps out at mediocre unless they accidentally strike gold in a future draft like they did with booker. Which is something we can’t, and shouldn’t, rely upon.

Just my two cents.

Btw, my mental state is stable for those of you concerned.

I get what you are saying - but I just don't believe Jackson has any potential. I really believe we would have seen it by now if it was going to happen. I seriously believe Bender has a better chance of becoming a good NBA player than Jackson does.

I think you are selling Bridges potential a bit low. I know he is not a great athlete - but he's not bad either, and he is a very hard worker. I really could see him getting a lot better.

Booker - I don't think he has topped out. He improved so much last year, and has improved every year. I really think 30 ppg is possible this year.

Oubre on the other hand, I don't think he is going to improve much over what he has shown last year, except possibly his passing.

Kaminsky - honestly I know very little about this guy - but his offensive highlights look very good. With playing time this guy was playing very well at the end of last year, I think he may positively surprise.

Jerome - well people describe him as just like Brogdon was in college. I don't think he is as good an athlete as Brogdon, but Brogdon is not a great athlete either. I'm not sure what we get with him, but he is an excellent shooter and passer, and those are two qualities that are hard to find so we will see.

Cam Johnson - I don't know - but physically he tests very similarly to Klay Thompson. Probably will not be nearly that good - but it does say it's possible.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Gambo said Suns like Jevon Carter.

I really like Jevon Carter. He is a very physical, defensive pg with an improving shot. I like him better than Melton.

 

[Yuma]

Doesn't matter what JJ did. He's not on our team anymore.

 

[Johninromania]

The question you got to ask yourself. Was last years team Jones making? He didn’t draft those players or make those roster moves. Now ask yourself is this team better on paper, more well balanced and has NBA legit players on it. Jones improved the team while paying for the past sins from his old boss. Oh and he help convince the hottest coach on the market to come here. I think it’s been a pretty good offseason.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But did he do that or did McD? I doubt Jackson had much value during this year. He played so badly the first few months of this year that I am sure it looked like it HAD to get better later. I think he just finally figured out it was never going to get better.

They’re both responsible.

But along those lines, my god did Sarver F up allowing mcd to handle last offseason if he was just going to can him at the start of the season and then unwind almost everything he did an offseason later. Sheesh.

 

[Proximo]

Most likely that pick will be traded, Jones is under tremendous pressure to right the ship quickly.

Yeah, if they are looking to make a deal at the deadline you are probably right.

I'm just not sure it is a good idea.

 

[GatorAZ]

Oh all the crazy stories over the last month if true this is the worst and is embarrassing.

Based on what we’ve seen with Jones it’s not surprising to hear reports of him being a terrible negotiator. He may ultimately be successful and we can write it off as a rookie GM getting taken advantage of.

 

[Cheesebeef]

They’re both responsible.

But along those lines, my god did Sarver F up allowing mcd to handle last offseason if he was just going to can him at the start of the season and then unwind almost everything he did an offseason later. Sheesh.

can't even remember how many people here told me to go find a new team when I argued that letting a lame duck McD make decisions in a huge off-season was a terrible idea.

 

[JCSunsfan]

What this offseason has told me is that James Jones has some aptitude in overall team building, but he is atrocious at negotiating and maximizing asset value. In other words, he makes a fine scout or assistant GM, but he has no business being a GM or running basketball operations.

The front office equivalent of Igor Kokoskov.

Pretty common for new GM's. Steve Kerr had the same problem.

 

[1Sun]

He has a guy we brought in to help with negotiations. Technically doen't that guys suck?

If it's Bower's call, yes...but I am hearing and reading that Jones has been the one behind these fire-sale-type trades and free agent overpayments. The man is literally incapable of negotiating. I believe he has basketball knowledge but lacks basic general intelligence.

 

[GatorAZ]

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[Yuma]

These moves look to me like when someone sells a business to another person. Sometimes inventory sold. Some of the assets moved. People are retired, fired, etc. Books are reconciled. There's costs involved in the sale, but sometimes it's about cleaning up the books, and getting the "new" business in shape to be successful.

This feels like the Suns have been reconfigured for the new GM James Jones. Also, Monty Williams probably has a say in who he wants to make the next season successful.

 

[Yuma]

If it's Bower's call, yes...but I am hearing and reading that Jones has been the one behind these fire-sale-type trades and free agent overpayments. The man is literally incapable of negotiating. I believe he has basketball knowledge but lacks basic general intelligence.

I know, but Bowers should be "helping" here.

 

[Johninromania]

Serious watch the Suns closely and Aaron Gordon. It’s more then just intrest.

 

[Proximo]

If it's Bower's call, yes...but I am hearing and reading that Jones has been the one behind these fire-sale-type trades and free agent overpayments. The man is literally incapable of negotiating. I believe he has basketball knowledge but lacks basic general intelligence.

I think you are right unfortunately. But perhaps he will learn, It's not rocket science.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Pretty common for new GM's. Steve Kerr had the same problem.

another reason not to hire cheap, inexperienced GMs when you're one of the worst franchises in pro sports. Terrible teams can't afford to have newbies learning on the job at the highest levels of team building. It's a reason teams stay terrible.

 

[Proximo]

Serious watch the Suns closely and Aaron Gordon. It’s more then just intrest.

Really?

I don't get why everybody wants this guy. He looks like an average starter to me.

 

[JCSunsfan]

They’re both responsible.

But along those lines, my god did Sarver F up allowing mcd to handle last offseason if he was just going to can him at the start of the season and then unwind almost everything he did an offseason later. Sheesh.

I don't think Sarver had ANY plans to can McD until the Houston trade. If he had PLANNED to do it and just waiting, yes, it was a big mistake. Should he have planned it sooner. Sure looks like it. I was certainly wrong about McD.

 

[Johninromania]

Really?

I don't get why everybody wants this guy. He looks like an average starter to me.

My friend works in the front office and Gordon’s name is at the top of the list for the 4 position. He knows the Suns and Orlando have talked about moving him. I guess the time isn’t right but his name has been up there since the end of the season. Could be a nothing burger. But he said the decision makers are very high on him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

another reason not to hire cheap, inexperienced GMs when you're one of the worst franchises in pro sports. Terrible teams can't afford to have newbies learning on the job at the highest levels of team building. It's a reason teams stay terrible.

If you believe in your newbie, the worst thing to do is to let him learn by making all his mistakes on your team, and the fire him so he can go be successful for another team--Steve Kerr, David Griffin.

 

[Johninromania]

These moves look to me like when someone sells a business to another person. Sometimes inventory sold. Some of the assets moved. People are retired, fired, etc. Books are reconciled. There's costs involved in the sale, but sometimes it's about cleaning up the books, and getting the "new" business in shape to be successful.

This feels like the Suns have been reconfigured for the new GM James Jones. Also, Monty Williams probably has a say in who he wants to make the next season successful.

This is how I view the recent moves, and I might be in the minority on this I’m fine with these moves and the cost to do it. I also think this team is considerably improved.