Jake is the "Light"

[Redheart]

Who would have thunk it.

It sound like that team believes in Jake, not just sound-bite standards.

Glowing article by an AP sportswriter.

The Cardinal's season is over and Jake is heating up. The only thing heating up here is the pot of oil for the Coaching Staff and the soon to be acknowleged Quarterback-Controversy.

Who would have thunk it.

Plummer picks up where he left off

By JOHN MARSHALL, AP Sports Writer
November 17, 2003

DENVER (AP) -- Shannon Sharpe reintroduced quarterback Jake Plummer to the Denver Broncos at practice last week, singing a line from an Eminem song as he walked away: ``Guess who's back, guess who's back, guess who's back.''

Sharpe couldn't have been more on target.

Plummer picked up where he left off a month ago, giving the Broncos a physical and emotional lift that had been missing since he went out with foot and shoulder injuries.

It's hard to imagine one player changing the fortunes of an entire team, but that's just what Plummer did in Denver's 38-7 win over San Diego on Sunday.

``It's nice to get Jake back and see a little step in everybody's walk,'' Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said Monday. ``Just to get the confidence in having him back and his ability to make plays.''

Plummer missed one game with a sore shoulder, then three more after breaking his foot while getting up off the couch. Against the Chargers, he played as if he never missed a game, throwing for 253 yards and three touchdowns.

Better yet, Plummer's return allowed the Broncos to dig a little deeper into the playbook again.

Denver had to scale back its offense with Steve Beuerlein and Danny Kanell at quarterback, which allowed opposing teams to stack up against the run.

That wasn't the case Sunday.

Plummer's mobility kept the Chargers off balance, and rollouts and bootlegs opened up space that hadn't been there since Week 5 against Kansas City. The result was a 27-0 lead at halftime and 448 total yards for Denver.

``We went deep. We went short. We hit on medium-range passes. We got our running game going,'' said Clinton Portis, who had 106 yards on 25 carries. ``Jake gives us another dimension.''

And not just on offense

Denver's defense, which had been showing cracks the past couple of games, was revved up from Plummer's return and dominated from the first snap. The Broncos forced Doug Flutie to miss badly on a screen on his first pass, then recovered a fumble on the next play.

Denver allowed 18 yards in the first quarter, none in the second and three in the third before the Chargers went on a 67-yard scoring drive in the fourth quarter. The score was 37-0 at the time.

The Broncos also forced four turnovers and allowed San Diego gains on just 15 of its 40 plays.

``We were feeding off Jake Plummer,'' linebacker Al Wilson said.

No doubt.

The Broncos went into a funk without Plummer, losing three of four games and looking nothing like the team that opened the season 4-1.

Just seeing Plummer at practice last week brought swagger back, with players joking and laughing more than they had in a month. It carried over to Sunday, leading to Denver's best game of the season.

``When we were in the dark tunnel, Jake Plummer was the light that showed us where to go,'' safety Nick Ferguson said.

Russ, are you gagging yet?

 

[Crimson Warrior]

That just stinks.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Redheart



Russ, are you gagging yet?

There's no question he's playing well and they're a much better team with him than Beuerlein or Kanell.

But again, he's now played 6 games. 4 of them against San Diego(twice), detroit, and Oakland, 3 of the 5 worst pass defenses in the NFL this year. When Griese lit up San Diego for 3 td's and a 121+ QB rating the Bronco fans were all saying big deal wait until he faces a real defense, when I point that out on their board yesterday about Jake, they say it's an excuse. Blake had 358 yards passing against Detroit opening game and 3 TD's, he had a 4th TD dropped by Bryant Johnson, and they were healthier against us than when they played Denver(they had lost TWO more CB's and started a guy they signed on Wednesday of that week). Jake has 10 Td and 1 pick in those games. San Diego has allowed 19 TD passes this year in 10 games, I think 5 teams have put up 3 against them(leftwich, Griese, Jake twice I have to check on the 5th it may only be 4).


In the 2 other starts, CIncy and KC, he has 1 TD, 3 picks and a rating just over 50. Because of the injury he didn't play Minnesota(when they were leading the NFL in TO's forced), New England, and to be fair didn't get to play the Steelers.

He comes back and faces San Diego, Chicago and Oakland, he also gets Cleveland. Their last 2 games are Indy and Green Bay both on the road, if he plays this well in THOSE games, I'll be ready to say he's turned the corner. Right now you're comparing 6 games, mostly against poor defenses, to the job of Beuerlein(who was much farther gone than I realized I had no idea he was this washed up) and Kanell(who was out of the NFL for years) of course he's going to look good.

Does anybody seriously believe Jake was ever going to do this in Arizona? Seriously put Jake on THIS Cardinal team and take a guess what his numbers would be like right now?

 

[Pariah]

I gotta admit the Broncos with and without Jake are like night and day. He makes that offense go.

Sucks, because I've been telling everyone here in Denver that he'll break their hearts. I guess he still could, but he looks pretty good right now.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

Between this and Mario, I think that maybe this is proof that our coaches aren't utilizing our players correctly.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by Oran
Between this and Mario, I think that maybe this is proof that our coaches aren't utilizing our players correctly.

Mario Bates? Maybe it just means ASU players are "late bloomers?"

 

[Jersey Girl]

I'm glad Jake is doing well, even though I agreed it was time for him to leave AZ. It shows, once again, that our coaching staff obviously has problems.

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

Originally posted by Pariah
Mario Bates? Maybe it just means ASU players are "late bloomers?"

Mario Fatah-whatevah- the defensive line guy.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Oran
Between this and Mario, I think that maybe this is proof that our coaches aren't utilizing our players correctly.

You mean by running him so much he's missed 40% of the Bronco's games this year?

Or are you buying into the Bronco mantra that it's a coincidence Jake has had a separated shoulder and a broken foot this year while being asked to move more than ever?

Shanahan realized that he's not effective in the pocket, so he's moving him, but he has to now figure out how to do that without exposing him to all those hits. The broke his foot getting off the couch thing ignores the fact that Jake first injured the foot running in the KC game, he said he was receiving treatment for it, but then it "popped" getting off the couch, so they assume he had a hairline crack that finally broke. Not all that unusual Washington just found out Ramsey has been playing with a broken foot the whole season.

 

[SECTION 11]

Denver's making our coaching staff look ridiculous.

Truly Shocking.

 

[Redheart]

Somewhere along this line, you have to admit:

David Boston was a HUGE problem.

The Offesive line is a huge under-achieving problem.

The Coaching Staff is a talent-starved problem (including sully as OC).

The GM's Plan is a "we were surprised"-problem in learning.

The Owner's Purse and focus on the stadium is a problem in urgency and committment.

It is time to admit Jake may not have been the reason this team sucked under him, he may have been the reason it didn't suck as bad as it does now.

We are 2/3 through this season; I have seen enough of Blake to know we need a new QB.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by Redheart

We are 2/3 through this season; I have seen enough of Blake to know we need a new QB.

Blake hasn't been a world beater, but I think he's played well for us for the most part. I'd guess that half of his picks bounced of the hands or the chest of our WRs. He's made some bad plays, but overall he's been decent. He's not the reason we have a losing record.

 

[CaptTurbo]

I said all along Mac and company were teaching Jake awful things with the skills he had. Guess its coming out now. Wasnt Jake...twas Mac

 

[Northern Card]

Re: Re: Jake is the "Light"

Originally posted by Russ Smith

Does anybody seriously believe Jake was ever going to do this in Arizona? Seriously put Jake on THIS Cardinal team and take a guess what his numbers would be like right now?

Interesting, Russ. Finally, coming around to the understanding that the problem in Arizona wasn't Jake... it was, generally: A gagging lack of talent; key injuries to what talent there was; poor coaching and a scheme that didn't take best advantage of his particular skills.

Hard to find STATS to support this subjectivity... but, then, all too often - as they say about those who use measurements in politics: "There are lies, damn lies... and then there are statistics."

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

Originally posted by Redheart


It is time to admit Jake may not have been the reason this team sucked under him, he may have been the reason it didn't suck as bad as it does now.

We are 2/3 through this season; I have seen enough of Blake to know we need a new QB.

You just said that it's time to admit that Jake wasn't the problem, but you don't like Blake? Mabe Blake looks bad for the same reason Plummer looked bad: the system and surrounding talent. Our rookie tandem at WR will look good next year, but Blake has put a few passes right on the money just to have Johnson, Gilmore, or Boldin drop them or not extend for them. This isn't Blake's fault.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Originally posted by Redheart
Somewhere along this line, you have to admit:

David Boston was a HUGE problem.

The Offesive line is a huge under-achieving problem.

The Coaching Staff is a talent-starved problem (including sully as OC).

The GM's Plan is a "we were surprised"-problem in learning.

The Owner's Purse and focus on the stadium is a problem in urgency and committment.

It is time to admit Jake may not have been the reason this team sucked under him, he may have been the reason it didn't suck as bad as it does now.

We are 2/3 through this season; I have seen enough of Blake to know we need a new QB.

Speaking of huge.nice brains er....avatar

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Redheart
It is time to admit Jake may not have been the reason this team sucked under him, he may have been the reason it didn't suck as bad as it does now.

We are 2/3 through this season; I have seen enough of Blake to know we need a new QB.

I don't follow. THe team finished 1-9 last year with Jake, in large part due to injuries at WR and OL. We started 4-2 in spite of Jake not because of him, he played horribly most of those 6 games.

This year the first 10 games the roster is largely comparable to what we played the last 10 games with, maybe more talent, less experience but very similar. Jake was telling WR's where to line up, so is BLake. Jake didn't have to deal with a rookie OC who couldn't get plays in, Olson was in his 2nd year. Jake didn't have Boldin.

Given all that Blake has gone 3-7, Jake 1-9, I don't see how anybody can say this team sucks more now than it did last year under Jake? We still may win the same number of games as last year without the 4-2 start that Jake had virtually nothing to do with.

And Blake is currently on a pace to jsut about equal Jake's BEST year here, and everyone thinks Blake is having a bad year.

Don't confuse Jake's stats in Denver with what he did here.

 

[Lex]

Jake Plummer is a top 5 quarterback in this league, always has been. The only reason we've had any success here since 97 was due to Jake Plummer. How's Boston doing, MarTay, Sanders, Gilmore, Kaspar, Poole, you remember, the receivers Jake had to deal with. How's Thomas Jones doing, imagine Jake Plummer with Marcell actually playing, and a number 1, and number 2 picks to throw to.

I'll guarantee you Boldin would have better numbers this year, than D Bo did with Jake in his big year, (which Boston will never duplicate unless he can manufacture a trade to Denver.)

All the excuses will fly out the window when Jake has left his mark on the NFL in Denver, over the next 5-8 years.

The only shocking thing about this, is the fact that only 13 people out of 120 on this board felt that Jeff Blake was NOT an upgrade over Jake Plummer.

We got rid of a franchise quarterback in favor of Jeff Blake and Emmitt Smith. No use crying over spilled milk, we'll spend the next period of time HOPING to waste a top draft pick, and all the money they require, to find someone as good as Jake.

 

[Billy Flynt]

Originally posted by Russ Smith

And Blake is currently on a pace to jsut about equal Jake's BEST year here, and everyone thinks Blake is having a bad year.

The problem is Blake is making the same mistakes that everyone was crucifying Plummer for.... double coverage, missing the blitz read, passes behind or over receivers, etc.

He gets to spend the 3rd and 4th Quarters throwing just like Jake did.

 

[Pariah]

All the excuses will fly out the window when Jake has left his mark on the NFL in Denver, over the next 5-8 years.

Yeah, but for now we still have the excuses and I intend to use them while I can.

 

[Russ Smith]

Re: Re: Re: Jake is the "Light"

Originally posted by Northern Card
Interesting, Russ. Finally, coming around to the understanding that the problem in Arizona wasn't Jake... it was, generally: A gagging lack of talent; key injuries to what talent there was; poor coaching and a scheme that didn't take best advantage of his particular skills.

Hard to find STATS to support this subjectivity... but, then, all too often - as they say about those who use measurements in politics: "There are lies, damn lies... and then there are statistics."

I never said we sucked because of Jake, I said we would have been much more competitive if Jake didn't turn it over so damn much. Same with Blake, look at the record and how he's played in the wins and losses, when Blake protects the ball we've been somewhat competitive, when he doesn't we stink.

Some of his picks aren't his fault, some of Jake's weren't his fault.

What you're doing is ignoring 6 YEARS of play from Jake here and saying 6 GAMES of play in Denver is the real Jake, 4 of them against the weaker pass defenses in the NFL.

Do I think Denver's coaches are better than ours, of course I've said so all year. Do I think the real Jake Plummer is the guy with a
95.4 passer rating this year? No way. I said preseason I don't expect Jake to finish with a rating above 85(what Griese did last year) and I still feel that way. Even with their weak upcoming schedule he still has to play KC, and then Indy and Green Bay on the road. If he does this great stuff in those games I'll be a believer, right now I see a guy in a system that is subjecting him to a lot of hits because the coach is afraid to "protect" him in the pocket knowing he's not a good pocket QB.

If they play Jake in this system for the length of his contract in Denver he'll miss games every year due to injury.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Lex
Jake Plummer is a top 5 quarterback in this league, always has been. The only reason we've had any success here since 97 was due to Jake Plummer. How's Boston doing, MarTay, Sanders, Gilmore, Kaspar, Poole, you remember, the receivers Jake had to deal with. How's Thomas Jones doing, imagine Jake Plummer with Marcell actually playing, and a number 1, and number 2 picks to throw to.

I'll guarantee you Boldin would have better numbers this year, than D Bo did with Jake in his big year, (which Boston will never duplicate unless he can manufacture a trade to Denver.)

Nice guarantee is it even remotely possible to show it's true or false?

Boston is not doing well for obvious reasons, he's too big and too injury prone. IN case you didn't know Boston had leg cramps in the Denver game , the 3rd game this year they've had to pull him out with cramping. Read the Chargers board they're all over the guy again they've realized now the problem isn't going away. Boston was ~ 20 pounds lighter the year he had his great season.

Boston led the NFL in yards after catch that year, you going to claim that was because Jake was always hitting him in stride? Boston lost 5-6 Td's that year on plays where he was badly underthrown while wide open deep. That's how a WR gets nearly 1600 yards but only 8 Td's.

Blake is still going to come close to Jake's best year ever as a Cardinal if we keep starting him.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by casablanca
The problem is Blake is making the same mistakes that everyone was crucifying Plummer for.... double coverage, missing the blitz read, passes behind or over receivers, etc.

He gets to spend the 3rd and 4th Quarters throwing just like Jake did.

Which is why 40% of his Td's and yards come in the 4th quarter right? wait they don't, it's basically about normal. He has nearly as many first quarter yards as 4th quarter yards, he has 4 Td's in the first quarter, Jake had NINE in 6 years as a Cardinal. Jake never once led the team to a TD on the first drive of the game, I believe we've done that 3 times in 10 games with Blake?

In the same bad situation Jake played worse than Blake 5 of his 6 seasons.

You're doing the equivalent of saying Emmitt's career rushing record is a sham because his games in Arizona are the "real" Emmitt.

 

[ajcardfan]

Thank God Jake is gone. I don't even care if he wins league MVP and the Super Bowl in Denver. He was atrocious here. And, the endless debate as to the where the degrees of fault for his play lay was mindnumbing.

I think Denver is better for Jake. But, not because of the line, the running game, the WRs, etc. I do know those are better in Denver and they do help. But, I think the main difference is that he won't get the candyassed coddling he got here and he knows it. He looks mentally sharper because he knows he has to be. Denver is a place where QB's with good stats and winning records get benched and cut. He NEVER had that sort of pressure put on him here. Here, he was a savior for one playoff win. When he looked at the bench, he saw three big stiffs in Brown, Greisen and McCown. See, I don't really blame the Plummer mess on him, I think the way our staff and front office babied him led to the problems of him never getting better. Which meant he did the same stupid crap, like fumbling snaps in the red zone and throwing late into the flat, over and over and over.

 

[Billy Flynt]

Originally posted by Russ Smith
Which is why 40% of his Td's and yards come in the 4th quarter right? wait they don't, it's basically about normal. He has nearly as many first quarter yards as 4th quarter yards, he has 4 Td's in the first quarter, Jake had NINE in 6 years as a Cardinal. Jake never once led the team to a TD on the first drive of the game, I believe we've done that 3 times in 10 games with Blake?

I didn't say he succeeded in the 4th Q. In fact, he hasn't brought us back from a deficit that I can remember. At least Jake did that once in a while.