Jake Plummer was one win from the Super Bowl

[seesred]

Cards playoff was 1998. They kept getting better as the season progressed. We won our first playoff game beating Dallas in dallas. (I was there and it will remain one of my best sports thrills ever) That and the Dodgers winning in 1955. But I regress. We would have remained a good team in 1999 and who knows how long with Tobin(mr. Vanilla). But we were in cap hell. We lost the keys to the heart of our team and the rest is history. We didn't sign Lomas Brown, Larry Centers or Jamir Miller. We killed the line, took the heart out with Larry and hurt our improving defense by losing Jamir.

If we had built on that team instead of destroying it???Who KNows?? I thank God those days are over and we have control of the cap and are keeping our players. I hope Jake makes it all the way. It will prove once again it wasn't that we couldn't pick em, it was that we couldn't keep them.

GBr
40

 

[jstadvl]

easy Mao

I said "for the most part". His personal life is his, so the fiancee thing, guess none of us knows the whole story. The "flipping off" he was giving it to ONE heckler. You've never flipped anyone off? Or cussed them?
Not working it as hard as he could in the off-season was crap. I agree. He was young and still a bit immature.
He said he did'nt give a rats ass about them booing him, not about "THE FANS".
I never said he was a "choir boy".So far the only thing of relevance, on his football resume here, is the offseason work.
At least he fessed up, said in Denver they "make" you do it, and the practice work ethic expectations are different then they were here.
C'mon Mao, all I'm trying to get to is, no matter how you feel about the guy, he's done well in a system that suits him, and he could, I said could, get a ring.
He made some dumb, young, mistakes. We all do. Don't you?

 

[jstadvl]

Brown and Miller were both offered equivalent money to what they accepted elsewhere. I think they felt dissed about the Plummer signing. The Centers move was just bad. But, alot of us thought the team was heading in a different direction (let the one liners begin) just the wrong way.
Centers was the mistake. the other two were leaving no matter.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

He made some dumb, young, mistakes. We all do. Don't you?

I sure do, but nobody refers to me as a class act.

 

[jstadvl]

Not true

I have. Especially when we disagreed on something and you backed off because of the way I posted it. Even said it made sense. That's class amigo. More than you think. I think it was a KVB post. You didn't keep trying to prove you were right or I was wrong, just that fater I put it in different terms you said it made mre sense, basically.
Around here, or anywhere for that matter, but especially here, that's a class act.

 

[Duckjake]

You mean Peyton Manning, had we lost we would have picked first, we picked second traded away that pick to San Diego.

Come on Zeno you know that if the Cards had the #1 pick that year they would have passed on Manning and taken Leaf.

 

[chickenhead]

I still love Jake and wish him all the luck in the world. Lynch, too, though he has a ring already. However, I like Cowher and his team much better overall.

 

[duckfallas]

You mean Peyton Manning, had we lost we would have picked first, we picked second traded away that pick to San Diego.

Can you imagine the whining if Peyton Manning had been drafted by the Cardinals?

 

[Zeno]

Come on Zeno you know that if the Cards had the #1 pick that year they would have passed on Manning and taken Leaf.

Actually I remember an interview with Bob Ferguson talking about the combine that year. He said one thing that stood out during their individual player interviews was that Ryan Leaf had a lot of growing up to do. Plus Plummer was entering his second year and the thought in town was we had our QB of the future so lets build the team around him...unfortunatley it was the never healthy Andre Wadsworth.

 

[Russ Smith]

Brown and Miller were both offered equivalent money to what they accepted elsewhere. I think they felt dissed about the Plummer signing. The Centers move was just bad. But, alot of us thought the team was heading in a different direction (let the one liners begin) just the wrong way.
Centers was the mistake. the other two were leaving no matter.

Brown absolutely left because of Jake's contract, at least in part. THere were 2 things he said when he signed with the Browns, one they gave him some parking lot concession deal(he owned a parking lot company or something) and two he said something about not getting the same treatment that other players got by the Cards. It was pretty clear that Jake's massive bonus had the other players all assuming they were going to get overpaid too.

Miller was asking for "Ray Lewis money", the Cards correctly refused to pay him that. He asked the Cards not to franchise him, said if they did he'd be furious, we didn't, let him test the market. Nobody offered him anything because they all thought he was going to wind up signing here anyways and didn't want to help us set the market. Since he had 2 strikes in the NFL drug program teams just weren't going to overpay. He eventually took a 1 year 1 million deal with the Browns, having rejected a better offer from us that we later pulled after signing Frederickson.

The problem with Centers was we'd already overpaid him, Larry had heart and gave his all but alot of those catches were 6 yard catches on 3rd and 8 before we punted. Jake had gotten way too "comfy" dumping the ball to Centers and it was actually hurting the offense because he was never looking downfield. The Cards took a look and said we're paying his guy like 1.5 million but all he does is catch short passes. IIRC Centers claimed at the end he offered to take a paycut and the Cards declined, but the Cards denied that said they asked him to reduce his contract and he refused.

Alot of people forget that Centers made quite a scene at the Pro Bowl one year, word got around that he'd been badmouthing the Cards organization and telling other players there that he wanted out, so the Cards weren't exactly fond of him at the time. Despite that they gave him a fat new contract when they were basically bidding against themself, he had no other offers but we still paid him a big deal.I know he said some things after he signed with Washington that basically said the organization lied about why he was gone etc but while I loved Larry on the field I think off the field his departure was similar to Swann's, both guys went a bit overboard taking shots at the team(Swann's grievance) instead of just accepting the inevitable that the NFL is a business.

Makovicka was a total flop replacing Larry, couldn't even block which was supposed to be his strength.

 

[duckfallas]

You mean Missablocka?

 

[Zeno]

The problem with Centers was we'd already overpaid him, Larry had heart and gave his all but alot of those catches were 6 yard catches on 3rd and 8 before we punted. Jake had gotten way too "comfy" dumping the ball to Centers and it was actually hurting the offense because he was never looking downfield. The Cards took a look and said we're paying his guy like 1.5 million but all he does is catch short passes. IIRC Centers claimed at the end he offered to take a paycut and the Cards declined, but the Cards denied that said they asked him to reduce his contract and he refused.

Makovicka was a total flop replacing Larry, couldn't even block which was supposed to be his strength.

At the time I wasn't sorry to see Larry go, his presence was hindering the offense. He couldn't block and while he could catch just about anything thrown at him, like Russ said he caught a lot of passes that were short of first down...less than 1/3 of his catches his last season here were for first downs.

As for Makovicka (Miss-a-blocka) what a waste that was. I had read the Cards were considering Jeff Paulk of ASU with that pick but he wouldn't have turned out any better.

 

[Duckjake]

Actually I remember an interview with Bob Ferguson talking about the combine that year. He said one thing that stood out during their individual player interviews was that Ryan Leaf had a lot of growing up to do. Plus Plummer was entering his second year and the thought in town was we had our QB of the future so lets build the team around him...unfortunatley it was the never healthy Andre Wadsworth.

I seem to remember that you wanted Charles Woodson. Lucky for him you weren't the Cards GM or Charles career would have been cut short by injuries.

That was quite a debate on the old Cards Corner board over which of the two W's to take.

 

[Zeno]

I seem to remember that you wanted Charles Woodson. Lucky for him you weren't the Cards GM or Charles career would have been cut short by injuries.

That was quite a debate on the old Cards Corner board over which of the two W's to take.

Actually I was a Wadsworth guy, I wasn't ready to give up on Tom Knight yet...sigh.

 

[duckfallas]

Tommy Knight had a fan?

 

[Zeno]

That was quite a debate on the old Cards Corner board over which of the two W's to take.

Actually now that I think back I was about the lone supporter of Randy Moss that year, but since I knew that wasn't going to happen I was swayed in to the Wadsworth corner. Woodson was not someone I wanted we had spent a #1 on Knight, drafted Ty Howard and still had Aeneas Williams...man was I mistaken.

My reasoning on Moss, Moore was going to be a free agent after that season, neither Sanders or Moore ever outran anyone after they caught the ball(heck Moore fell down more often than not right after the catch) and Moss was a freak of nature(size, speed, talent etc).

I also remember hearing an interview with Denny Green on the radio prior to that draft he was asked about Moss; he basically said he didn't think he'd be there when he drafted but if he was it would be a great fit for his team and that the situation would be different than what would have been in other cities in that his brother was on the Vikings (an OLineman I think). He didn't hide his "love" for Moss and it all worked out for him.

 

[Russ Smith]

Actually now that I think back I was about the lone supporter of Randy Moss that year, but since I knew that wasn't going to happen I was swayed in to the Wadsworth corner. Woodson was not someone I wanted we had spent a #1 on Knight, drafted Ty Howard and still had Aeneas Williams...man was I mistaken.

My reasoning on Moss, Moore was going to be a free agent after that season, neither Sanders or Moore ever outran anyone after they caught the ball(heck Moore fell down more often than not right after the catch) and Moss was a freak of nature(size, speed, talent etc).

QUOTE]

I was campaigning for Moss on the Cards usenet group that year until I read an article that detailed his "transgressions" while in school and just decided he wasn't going to be worth the risk. Everyone knew about the malicious wounding thing in HS but he'd failed multiple drug tests at Florida State before being kicked off the team, he'd developed such a reputation at Marshall off the field that an on campus womens group literally picketed games and said he should be kicked out of school(apparently it wasn't just on the field where he used his hands). There were reports of him routinely skipping practices because he didn't feel like practicing.

at that point I became a Wadsworth guy. I still think Andre would have been a great player if not for the knee problems.

 

[golfcardfan]

Good for Jake he seems to have matured and became a very good QB. It was not going to happen in AZ just like with many players they go on to quality coaching and prosper. Since the Cardinals are not in the playoffs I will root for Denver to go all the way and win the SB.

Go Broncos!

 

[duckfallas]

Plummer could just as easily pulled his head out here as he has in Denver this season. He had some good spells here. Some bad ones too.

 

[Duckjake]

Actually now that I think back I was about the lone supporter of Randy Moss that year,

Maybe that's what I was thinking about. I know most of the board were on the Wadsworth wagon but somebody, I thought it was you, was very much in favor of Woodson. Maybe Gollin remembers.

Funny that the Cards passed on Moss and then took David Boston with their #1 the next draft.

 

[Russ Smith]

Plummer could just as easily pulled his head out here as he has in Denver this season. He had some good spells here. Some bad ones too.

How? If his problem here was coaching, he would have had to wait for us to hire Kubiak or Shanahan.

I can guarantee you Dennis Green was not going to create a moving pocket rollout based offense for Jake Plummer. He didn't do it for Cunningham, he didn't do it for Culpepper, he didn't do it for McCown and he wouldn't do it for Jake.

 

[CardShark]

Before last season started, the guys at FootballOutsiders.com had a kind of stat yearbook for the history of the site, or something. Each team had like 15 pages of statistical history.

They had a special section for the Cardinals' 1997 playoff team, about how they were the biggest outliers that they had ever encountered, ever, and that the main reason was because of the ridiculously easy schedule that the NFL gave them. Maybe CardShark will post that article. It basically said that Arizona was one of the worst 10 teams in the NFL in both offensive and defensive Value Over Average, but somehow made the playoffs.

http://home.earthlink.net/~ob1gui/nflsbar/nflrnk98.htm

1998 - Inside The Numbers
Tired of arguing about why your team is better or why some other team is overrated? Just how weak is the NFC West this year? Get all the facts you need on one concise sheet! A computer ranking of all the teams in the NFL based on performance AND strength of schedule and more...


A statistical analysis of the NFL with rankings based on team performance. Unlike most computer rankings, this chart takes ALL the following factors into account to produce an accurate ranking of true team strengths and weaknesses:

winning percentage
overtime wins/losses

strength of schedule
offensive/defense performance.




Year:1998 Week:1 Thru Week:21
# TEAM NAME CONF DIV W L T OW OL PW PL RkPct RawPct OpPct Psc Pal AVM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Vikings NFC Cent 16 2 0 0 1 5 1 1.148 0.8889 0.452 624 347 15.4
2 Broncos AFC West 17 2 0 0 0 6 1 1.119 0.8947 0.491 596 341 13.4
3 Falcons NFC West 16 3 0 1 0 5 3 0.993 0.8421 0.474 511 368 7.5
4 Jets AFC East 13 5 0 0 1 8 2 0.971 0.7222 0.515 460 313 8.2
5 49ers NFC West 13 5 0 2 0 3 5 0.827 0.7222 0.488 527 375 8.4
6 Jaguars AFC Cent 12 6 0 0 0 2 4 0.730 0.6667 0.485 441 382 3.3
7 Packers NFC Cent 11 6 0 0 0 1 3 0.713 0.6471 0.458 435 349 5.1
8 Cowboys NFC East 10 7 0 0 0 2 3 0.685 0.5882 0.464 388 295 5.5
9 Bills AFC East 10 7 0 0 0 4 5 0.684 0.5882 0.469 417 357 3.5
10 Dolphins AFC East 11 7 0 1 0 4 7 0.671 0.6111 0.542 348 320 1.6
11 Patriots AFC East 9 8 0 0 1 3 7 0.563 0.5294 0.550 347 354 -0.4
12 Seahawks AFC West 8 8 0 0 0 1 4 0.557 0.5000 0.490 372 310 3.9
13 Buccaneers NFC Cent 8 8 0 0 0 2 3 0.544 0.5000 0.468 314 295 1.2
14 Oilers AFC Cent 8 8 0 0 0 1 5 0.534 0.5000 0.480 330 320 0.6
15 Giants NFC East 8 8 0 0 0 3 5 0.525 0.5000 0.517 287 309 -1.4
16 Cardinals NFC East 10 8 0 1 0 1 3 0.514 0.5556 0.429 366 426 -3.3
17 Raiders AFC West 8 8 0 0 0 2 4 0.490 0.5000 0.504 288 356 -4.2
18 Steelers AFC Cent 7 9 0 0 1 2 3 0.443 0.4375 0.453 263 303 -2.5
19 Chiefs AFC West 7 9 0 0 0 2 5 0.422 0.4375 0.538 327 363 -2.2
20 Ravens AFC Cent 6 10 0 0 0 1 4 0.343 0.3750 0.463 269 335 -4.1
21 Saints NFC West 6 10 0 1 0 1 9 0.316 0.3750 0.536 305 359 -3.4
22 Redskins NFC East 6 10 0 0 0 0 7 0.283 0.3750 0.514 319 421 -6.4
23 Lions NFC Cent 5 11 0 1 1 1 7 0.256 0.3125 0.534 306 378 -4.5
24 Chargers AFC West 5 11 0 0 0 1 3 0.244 0.3125 0.496 241 342 -6.3
25 Rams NFC West 4 12 0 0 0 3 7 0.222 0.2500 0.544 285 378 -5.8
26 Panthers NFC West 4 12 0 0 1 0 9 0.188 0.2500 0.537 336 413 -4.8
27 Bears NFC Cent 4 12 0 0 0 1 7 0.179 0.2500 0.557 276 368 -5.8
28 Colts AFC East 3 13 0 0 1 1 9 0.102 0.1875 0.529 310 444 -8.4
29 Eagles NFC East 3 13 0 0 1 0 7 0.064 0.1875 0.515 161 344 -11.4
30 Bengals AFC Cent 3 13 0 1 0 0 6 0.022 0.1875 0.530 268 452 -11.5
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
League Averages 8 8 0 0 0 2 5 0.512 0.4898 0.501 357 357 -0.3



Table 1: Legend CONF Conference DIV Division
W Total Wins L Total Losses
OW Over-time Wins OL Over-time Losses
PW Wins against teams with playoff potential (RawPct > .500) PL Losses against teams with playoff potential (RawPct > .500)
RkPct Statistical ranking percentage RawPct "Raw" Winning percentage
T Ties AVM Average victory margin
Psc Total points scored Pal Total points allowed
OpPct Opponents "Raw" winning percentage

 

[CronosCard]

"..And in this corner.."

WHO CARES about kake Plummer? As long as its not the Cards..

 

[Zeno]

Maybe that's what I was thinking about. I know most of the board were on the Wadsworth wagon but somebody, I thought it was you, was very much in favor of Woodson. Maybe Gollin remembers.

Funny that the Cards passed on Moss and then took David Boston with their #1 the next draft.

If I remember right JRein and PDonaldo were in the Woodson corner....not 100% sure though.

 

[mjb21aztd]

This will indeed be a fun game to watch but I think the Stellers have to fast of a defense for the broncos to handle and I believe the Stellers will win this game. It would be cool to see plummer in the superbowl but i just dont see him doing that good against pittsburg