James in Phoenix?

What is the chance that LeBron James plays for the Suns next season?

  • less than 5%

    Votes: 53 62.4%
  • 5-10%

    Votes: 18 21.2%
  • 10-20%

    Votes: 7 8.2%
  • 20-30%

    Votes: 4 4.7%
  • better than 30%

    Votes: 3 3.5%

  • Total voters
    85

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
36,510
Reaction score
15,597
Location
Arizona
I highly doubt it's scripted. It seems too much of a cluster you know what rather then planned.

Is it really? I mean if Wade and Bosh are willing to take pay cuts to keep the team together...it's actually not that big of a cluster. The media is speculating more than anything.

How hard would it be to say "Lebron put up your best front that you want to look into free agency. Wade and Bosh just make it sounds like it's not a done deal". Doesn't sound complicated.

Besides....we all know these guys can act (flops). :D
 

CardsFan88

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 28, 2002
Posts
7,544
Reaction score
4,526
Is it really? I mean if Wade and Bosh are willing to take pay cuts to keep the team together...it's actually not that big of a cluster. The media is speculating more than anything.

How hard would it be to say "Lebron put up your best front that you want to look into free agency. Wade and Bosh just make it sounds like it's not a done deal". Doesn't sound complicated.

Besides....we all know these guys can act (flops). :D

Yeah I think so. Let me explain.

We have to believe that before losing to the finals, nothing was planned, because if they won the championship, the impetus wouldn't be there.

So we have to believe that IF this was a plan, it had to happen AFTER the finals, leaving little time to plan, practice, and get everybody on board.

Especially when you consider the cluster started with Riley tirade during the press conference.

Then you had Lebron opt out, aside from anyone else, and before any meeting with them.

Lebron opting out gives him the opportunity for a raise, and via his Bird rights, if money was Lebron's sole issue, there was no reason for Bosh or Wade to opt out. Them opting out doesn't give Lebron more money.

Lebron made his intentions known in the media, no one from the organization or other players said anything.

He did so BEFORE the draft, giving time for anyone to make moves to better formulate a plan and have more wiggle room to execute it. This is pretty telling, because if he wanted to stay and this was all planned, what purpose would it serve to let people know before the draft he's going to be open? It only gives those teams a better shot at making moves to acquire him, it doesn't help some plan to remain with the Heat. It doesn't fit or benefit the plan theme.

We then during the draft see the Heat trade up to take the guy Lebron wants. If they really wanted him before the draft all alone, what interest did it serve ESPN plastering all over their programs Lebron's desire for him? If so, their plan on this front could of backfired. Not a good plan. It fits the more likely scenario that indeed they are scared of losing Lebron, so they made a trade to get the guy Lebron wanted. It doesn't fit the plan theme.

There were reports they hadn't met yet at all after the season up to that point, which definitely doesn't help the plan theme.

We have the players meeting, and after the meeting, no one said anything. Odd.

If they felt successful at retaining Lebron, something would of been mentioned. Also why would they need to meet to plan, if they already had a plan? Especially with a couple of them scheduled to take vacations, seems kind of much to pull off a plan, that at this point, has had no benefits. Also if this was a plan, they could just as easily plan over the phone or internet, there is no reason to physically meet. Physical meetings are not used for this purpose, but the opposite...good news, bad news, a courtesy to give people time to air their thoughts and ideas, while also being able to see someone eye to eye and gauge their non-verbal communication. You don't need those benefits if you have a plan, but rather, when you DON'T have a plan and everything is up in the air.

But a couple of days later, we see a picture put out by Wade showcasing that after the meeting, there were two plates. One plate with two items, and one plate on the side with one item. Subsequently we hear reports that one of the two (Bosh or Wade) told people supposedly privately that they feared he was gone. He mentions 'Day 1 of the new challenge'.

That's odd, what challenge is there if they have a plan? What does the plan gain by having this photo put out? It's so cryptic, it's not going to be something they can showcase to prove it wasn't collusion. The only thing that makes sense is Wade didn't get the news he hoped to hear at the meeting, and feared he was going to lose Lebron, and since everyone wanted to know what happened, yet he didn't want to directly divulge what happened out of respect, he did a cryptic photo instagram message that could mean anything and gets around all the politeness/etiquette issues.

Now I'm quite sure they talked about their situation THEN, and being that it was after Lebron had opted out, and the others were trying to bring him back into the fold, it wouldn't surprise me if they talked about the other two opting out, which then knowing Lebron already has, after the meeting it was actually THEM who were mulling stuff over.

Next we heard reports that both would opt out, but actually they did so a day or so apart, which is a bit odd considering both have the same agent. You'd think if it was coordinated between those two players the agent would have filed them both at the same time.

They had to opt-out because they had to beat the deadline for opting out. Lebron made his move, and they had to decide for themselves where they stood, and the meeting they had put the ball in their court, for THEM to decide. So in essence they went into the meeting trying to get Lebron to decide, and in the end he got THEM to decide on something.

They could risk being stuck on a loser team if Lebron left, or they could decide to opt out, give the Heat flexibility to make some moves, and agree to sign back on for less, or if it doesn't happen, and Lebron leaves, they have the options to follow, go somewhere else, or still stay. But they ONLY have those options if they opt out before the deadline, so they did. Lebron put on his poker face, and made them blink.

Now we have free agency. IF this was a grand plan, then they would on July 1st, have a list of targets and the knowledge they had the room to go sign these guys. So we should of seen some major moves by the Heat. Even if they weren't successful in signing these guys, the should of been on planes, trains, and automobiles trying to implement their plan.

Waiting only takes away options, and as we've seen, the top options most people think they need are now gone. Some plan.

Instead what we saw is absolutely nothing until a couple of days ago when we started hearing that they would have $12 million to spend, except as has been shown, the numbers never worked, and the agent publicly denied they were going to take such low offers.

Which of course brings another point, any plan, would dictate the agent was on board, and would be onboard for a pay cut for himself. I find that unlikely, especially since the one it favored would be his EX-client, Lebron.

Now if the agent wasn't on board, we'd hear some rumblings of agent quitting, or being fired by them. Instead it's more likely that Lebron business wise IS screwing Bosh and Wade, and the agent is going to have to take it, but he's going to fight for as much as possible for his clients, and thus make the most for himself out of this losing situation for Bosh/Wade/Agent.

What we find out with more revelations is that in reality, 12 million in space is a pipe dream, and it's more likely that it's 5-7 million, and perhaps even less.

So are we to believe they went through all this, formulated this plan, just so they could squeeze an extra 5-7 million (or less) to sign someone, which really won't sign anyone, and that somehow they felt the need to hide it all, even though everything they are doing is absolutely legal?

Also we have to remember, what are they hiding from? Nothing about this is illegal, and using rules to your advantage would not incur a penalty. If anything it would MAYBE cause rules to be changed, but that's AFTER the fact. They can't punish or stop a process that is technically by the rules. So why would they come up with all of this? If they somehow abused something, it would be changed, but it wouldn't take effect until NEXT offseason.

Believe me, I know for a fact that many conspiracy theories exist, big and small, yet also some are false, or mostly false, or a little bit false, so I'm not one to discount this just because it's a 'conspiracy theory', I think based on all the evidence and who gains what, and the fact they don't gain anything from hiding, the fact they get enough cap space to get the NBA equivalent of a happy meal, means there is no way this is planned.

This is one big giant cluster you know what. One they still have a chance at overcoming, and perhaps Lebron himself re-signs for 1 year or something, but based on all the above, and probably more that I forgot, and definitely more we don't know about, this is not planned.

Oh and don't forget the rumors of Lebron being irked by the amnesty of Miller, which may have cost them a title, and was nothing but a cost cutting/tax avoiding move by the owner Arison.

Everything points to a cluster, not a plan.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
36,510
Reaction score
15,597
Location
Arizona
Yeah I think so. Let me explain.....................

REDACTED FOR NATIONAL SECURITY REASONS. :D

CardsFan88....shorter posts my brother. I don't have time to read a novel during work hours. LOL. SUMMARIZE. Dude...I know I can ramble on with the best of em but....wow.

Will try and read a bit later. Appreciate the response.
 

devilalum

Heavily Redacted
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Posts
16,776
Reaction score
3,187
CardsFan88....shorter posts my brother. I don't have time to read a novel during work hours. LOL. SUMMARIZE. Dude...I know I can ramble on with the best of em but....wow.

Will try and read a bit later. Appreciate the response.

Or at least provide Cliff Notes.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,758
Reaction score
16,525
He basically said, follow the bouncing ball. The timing doesn't support conspiracy.

And he's right. Lebron sacrificed money and Miami let him down when they pinched pennies. Their actions helped make him look foolish on the national stage against the Spurs. There have been murmurs of discontent from the James camp for awhile now about the way Riley and the organization treated Lebron and his group. And the final straw, Riley's public attempt to manipulate Lebron pushed him over the edge. He wants out. He wants to win. He's torn.

Steve
 

CardsFan88

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 28, 2002
Posts
7,544
Reaction score
4,526
CardsFan88....shorter posts my brother. I don't have time to read a novel during work hours. LOL. SUMMARIZE. Dude...I know I can ramble on with the best of em but....wow.

Will try and read a bit later. Appreciate the response.

LOL. Sorry, it's just alot of stuff has happened, and each point would either be beneficial for a plan, or showcases that it can't because it runs contrary to a plan. Heck I forgot to add some stuff I'm sure.

The only one who benefits from this entire thing is Lebron, everyone else loses. The end result could be the team benefiting and getting stronger and thus keeping Lebron because of it, but a bunch of individuals have to lose, and the way it has unfolded, especially the timing of it all, shows it is virtually impossible to be planned.

If they come back together, it's because Lebron pulled the strings outside of the wishes of everyone else and dragged them kicking and screaming.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
36,510
Reaction score
15,597
Location
Arizona
He basically said, follow the bouncing ball. The timing doesn't support conspiracy.

And he's right. Lebron sacrificed money and Miami let him down when they pinched pennies. Their actions helped make him look foolish on the national stage against the Spurs. There have been murmurs of discontent from the James camp for awhile now about the way Riley and the organization treated Lebron and his group. And the final straw, Riley's public attempt to manipulate Lebron pushed him over the edge. He wants out. He wants to win. He's torn.

Steve

I still don't think it's as complex an idea for the players to work this out but thanks for that cliff notes version. You are hired for any super long thread translations. I guess I should ask how much you charge. ;)
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
91,430
Reaction score
68,608
He basically said, follow the bouncing ball. The timing doesn't support conspiracy.

And he's right. Lebron sacrificed money and Miami let him down when they pinched pennies. Their actions helped make him look foolish on the national stage against the Spurs. There have been murmurs of discontent from the James camp for awhile now about the way Riley and the organization treated Lebron and his group. And the final straw, Riley's public attempt to manipulate Lebron pushed him over the edge. He wants out. He wants to win. He's torn.

Steve

Riley's words say more then anything at this point. He was scared in that news conference. if he thought James was coming back, no way he'd try and mind-screw him like that.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
36,510
Reaction score
15,597
Location
Arizona
Riley's words say more then anything at this point. He was scared in that news conference. if he thought James was coming back, no way he'd try and mind-screw him like that.

See...I missed that new conference. Frack! I need to go and watch it when I get a chance.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,758
Reaction score
16,525
I still don't think it's as complex an idea for the players to work this out but thanks for that cliff notes version. You are hired for any super long thread translations. I guess I should ask how much you charge. ;)

Sure they could have worked all this out when they met for dinner but the disenchanted rumors were flying long before they got together. And like 88 said, they had no real motive to put something together prior to losing the title.

Steve
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,758
Reaction score
16,525
Riley's words say more then anything at this point. He was scared in that news conference. if he thought James was coming back, no way he'd try and mind-screw him like that.

And it shows the man's incredible ego to think James and the world wouldn't decode his message.

Steve
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
36,510
Reaction score
15,597
Location
Arizona
Sure they could have worked all this out when they met for dinner but the disenchanted rumors were flying long before they got together. And like 88 said, they had no real motive to put something together prior to losing the title.

Steve

Agreed but post playoffs that could have been a huge motivator knowing what the team salary cap situation looked like post season. Also, this "public" dinner doesn't mean it's the first conversation they had. However, after seeing Cheesebeefs comment above, I need to go and watch the news conference. I have not had a chance.
 
Last edited:

devilalum

Heavily Redacted
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Posts
16,776
Reaction score
3,187
Sure they could have worked all this out when they met for dinner but the disenchanted rumors were flying long before they got together. And like 88 said, they had no real motive to put something together prior to losing the title.

Steve

I know this probably doesn't mean anything but they did not look very happy when the exited the restaurant and got into their cars. Of course that could be for any number of reasons.
 

Zobaczcie suki

ASFN Icon
Joined
Aug 9, 2005
Posts
17,440
Reaction score
8,667
So what is the point of the big 3 staying together at this point? Lowery has signed elsewhere and they won't have enough money left after paying Lebron the max to keep Wade and Bosh happy AND, most importantly, won't have enough $$ to scrap together enough talent to win a championship.
 

Cheesebeef

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2003
Posts
91,430
Reaction score
68,608
Agreed but post playoffs that could have been a huge motivator knowing what the team salary cap situation looked like post season. Also, this "public" dinner doesn't mean it's the first conversation they had. However, after seeing Cheesebeefs comment above, I need to go and watch the news conference. I have not had a chance.

He basically called Bron gutless if he left.
 

AzStevenCal

ASFN IDOL
Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2004
Posts
36,758
Reaction score
16,525
I know this probably doesn't mean anything but they did not look very happy when the exited the restaurant and got into their cars. Of course that could be for any number of reasons.

No, it probably does tell a story. Add in all the rumors about statements one of them made to a close friend and it's clear they weren't confident he'd return. I don't think it's a done deal either way but I believe his rumored "max money" demand was the result of his unhappiness with the organization more than his need for more money.

Steve
 

CardsFan88

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 28, 2002
Posts
7,544
Reaction score
4,526
And it shows the man's incredible ego to think James and the world wouldn't decode his message.

Steve

I think this might be a big point. Lebron's ego is HUGE. Riley has a huge ego.

Here's a trip down memory lane, and lol his last game as coach was getting ousted by the Suns in that memorable, beat L.A. triumph. It also talks about Riley having friction with Jerry West and some players.

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-06-11/news/mn-267_1_pat-riley

I have to think Arison has a big one too, given he had the balls to amnesty Miller right after winning a championship.

And Daren, don't forget that the reports were that they hadn't met since the playoffs.

The Finals weren't over until the 15th, so there wasn't much time for anything since we're only 18 days today away from them losing the title.

Also we heard reports of Lebron being mentally checked out during the exit interview.

Originally Posted by DevilAlum

I know this probably doesn't mean anything but they did not look very happy when the exited the restaurant and got into their cars. Of course that could be for any number of reasons.

While if this was it alone, it might not be much to go on, but we see breadcrumb after breadcrumb. After seeing so many breadcrumbs, it's natural to start thinking it's a trail.
 

Covert Rain

Father smelt of elderberries!
Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2005
Posts
36,510
Reaction score
15,597
Location
Arizona
He basically called Bron gutless if he left.

OK. After watching the press conference I have come full circle. It doesn't appear to be coordinated. Some interesting things about the press conference. He mentioned that it was the players that came to the organization about players they wanted and were willing to to do things with there salary. The team didn't come to them about pay cuts to improve the team. This meshes with the above and the players willing (Wade and Bosh) at least to restructure to keep the team together now.

The Heat have accepted the fact they might lose LeBron and have other plans which indicates they are realizing they may lose him. Pat is playing a bit of psychology. He did in so many terms say that the BRAVE thing to do is come back and work through it and give it a chance to right the ship and get more rings. However, he also clearly stated he doesn't blame players for getting what they can.

Basically if LeBron leaves....blame LeBron's lack of bravery not the team. They are willing to restructure contracts, pay the TAX and do whatever it takes. This screams....prepping the public for his departure.

Wow...the wheels could really fall off and I will say if Lebron jumps ships they could lose both Bosh and Wade as well and send them back into the stone ages. Although..no matter what Wade might stick it out.
 
Last edited:

CardsFan88

ASFN Addict
Joined
May 28, 2002
Posts
7,544
Reaction score
4,526
OK. After watching the press conference I have come full circle. It doesn't appear to be coordinated. Some interesting things about the press conference. He mentioned that it was the players that came to the organization about players they wanted and were willing to to do things with there salary. The team didn't come to them about pay cuts to improve the team. This meshes with the above and the players willing (Wade and Bosh) at least to restructure to keep the team together now.

The Heat have accepted the fact they might lose LeBron and have other plans which indicates they are realizing they may lose him. Pat is playing a bit of psychology. He did in so many terms say that the BRAVE thing to do is come back and work through it and give it a chance to right the ship and get more rings. However, he also clearly stated he doesn't blame players for getting what they can.

Basically if LeBron leaves....blame LeBron's lack of bravery not the team. They are willing to restructure contracts, pay the TAX and do whatever it takes. This screams....prepping the public for his departure.

Wow...the wheels could really fall off and I will say if Lebron jumps ships they could lose both Bosh and Wade as well and send them back into the stone ages. Although..no matter what Wade might stick it out.

The ESPN stuff only has a small bit. That's what I watched before. Now I'm watching the whole 41 minutes and so far about 30 minutes in and the whole tirade is related and worth listening to. ESPN left a TON out.
 

Latest posts

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
553,669
Posts
5,410,663
Members
6,319
Latest member
route66
Top