James Jones traded?

Ollie

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Maybe I explained it wrong.

If the suns send James Jones to Portland for a TE, the suns do get the TE, but they can not use it for another player. That is the end of the TE.

It sounded like people were saying that we were going to have a TE to get other players.
The TE is not something teams give each other, it's generated by transactions. We'll get a non-simultaneous TE by trading Jr for "future considerations", because we're over the cap and trading away a single player without getting any salary back. Period.

Cap relief. Jones was scheduled to make $2.9 million which would include the $2.9 million in luxury tax. Add that savings and the $6 million cash from the sale of Jones related pick sale and the Suns have some money for free agency.
How so? We're still over the cap and our only way to get players is by using our MLE (probably won't happen), our new trade exception (probably won't happen) or minimum contracts.
However, if they choose to use it then they can use it to make up the diff of a higher priced player. Example, the Suns want playerX who makes $7.5mill, but the Suns don't have anyone in that range (hypothetically). If the team trading playerX wanted to take Banks the Suns could use the TE to fill the gap.
Mutually beneficial trade if KG stays in Minn: Marion for Pietrus sign and trade + GS's 11mil TE. Talently wise, it's a certain down grade, but we could then sign more useful FAs and would need to deplete the depth at trading deadline to do the evitable.
Can't happen. You can't combine players with non-simultaneous trade exceptions. And you can't use the TE to sign free agents.
 

elindholm

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Thank you, Ollie. I didn't have the energy to post corrections myself.

Everyone else, please save Ollie's post and refer to it in the future.
 

azirish

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Explaining it is also impossible.....:bang:

Not really. What is hard is getting rid of the misinformation and the wishful thinking. I'm sure we've all been tripped up by it which is the only way we learn. "No, you can't do that" when repeated a few dozen times worked for me. :bang:
 

Mainstreet

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I thought we all agreed that a TE was not created because there was no player traded back to Phoenix... thus no salary discrepancy was created.

However, is there any chance (any way, shape or form) that the Suns could get the rights to another player under future considerations?
 

Chaplin

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I didn't think you could trade Trade Exceptions, because that invalidates the whole point of one. A TE is there so a team over the cap can accept more salary then under normal circumstances they are allowed to do.
 

Mainstreet

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One other thought, since the sending of James Jones to Portland for money (and I'm not sure if even Fernandez is officially a Blazer) is there still a possibility that Kerr could still pull a rabbit out of his hat and the Suns get something more? I know future considerations usually turns into something like a second round draft pick like in 2010 or an option to an unsigned player, but it is usually something.

I'd settle for the rights to Taurean Green.
 
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sunsfn

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One other thought, since the sending of James Jones to Portland for money (and I'm sure if even Fernandez is officially a Blazer) is there still a possibility that Kerr could still pull a rabbit out of his hat and the Suns get something more? I know future considerations usually turns into something like a second round draft pick like in 2010 or an option to an unsigned player, but it is usually something.

I'd settle for the rights to Taurean Green.

Wait a minute,

I think this is how it went....

Portland had the TE because of their trade with NY, (Thanks Isiah!) they could take on James Jones because of that.

The 3 mil was paid to the suns for the 24th pick.

There can be something else coming from Portland, but no one knows what or when at this time, and the suns are not talking about that.

Portland is going to have too many people, so they have to get rid of someone I would think.
 

devilalum

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Wait a minute,

I think this is how it went....

Portland had the TE because of their trade with NY, (Thanks Isiah!) they could take on James Jones because of that.

The 3 mil was paid to the suns for the 24th pick.

There can be something else coming from Portland, but no one knows what or when at this time, and the suns are not talking about that.

Portland is going to have too many people, so they have to get rid of someone I would think.

If any of these guys get released they will be signing for the min. on a make good contract.
 

Ollie

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Well, I'm gonna try to explain how the TPE works. The rule is that "non-simultaneous" (i.e. creating a one year "credit" for the purpose of "completing" the trade) traded player exceptions are only allowed when a SINGLE player is traded AWAY from a team over the cap, if that team receives less salary than it gives in the transaction.

For instance, here's how Portland got the 3.1M TPE.

First thing, the big 3 (Randolph, F.Jones, Dickau) for 2 (Francis, Frye) trade had to work under the 125%+100000$ rule. Well that's the case, you can check that on any trade machine.

Then, each team is able to reorganize the trade the way it wants to create non-simultaneous trade exceptions. The smaller trades need to work under the 125% rule, though.

From Portland's perspective :

- First transaction : Send Randolph for Francis. Works under the 125 % rule. No TPE because Portland receives more salary than it gives.

- Second transaction : Send Dickau for Frye and gets a 400K TPE (because Dickau earns around 400K more than Frye).

- Last transaction : Send Fred Jones for nothing and gets a 3.1M TPE (Jones salary).

From NY's perspective :

- First transaction : Send Francis for Randolph, Dickau and Jones. Works under the 125% rule. No TPE because NY receives more salary than it gives.

- Last transaction : Send Frye for nothing and gets a 2.4M TPE (Frye salary).


The league always re-arrange transactions that way and almost every trade involving over-the-cap teams creates TPEs.


Then, Portland trades "future considerations" (something like a 2011's conditional secound round pick) for James Jones.

Jones 2.9M salary fits into the 3.1M TPE so Portland doesn't have to send salaries back. Their TPE shrinks to 200K. Phoenix gets a 2.9M TPE.
 
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Ollie

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I don't wanna sound arrogant or anything but since I remade my post about the TPE to make it more explicit, I thought it'd be okay if I bumped myself.
 

dreamcastrocks

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I don't wanna sound arrogant or anything but since I remade my post about the TPE to make it more explicit, I thought it'd be okay if I bumped myself.

How "arrogant" of you.

Nice work btw.
 

Mainstreet

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Jones 2.9M salary fits into the 3.1M TPE so Portland doesn't have to send salaries back. Their TPE shrinks to 200K. Phoenix gets a 2.9M TPE.

So is there any way this 2.9 TPE helps Phoenix in reality like in a trade if they were able to use it.?

I'm lost... I want to go home. :oops:
 

elindholm

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So is there any way this 2.9 TPE helps Phoenix in reality like in a trade if they were able to use it.?

They could find an unwanted player on another team making that amount or less -- Juan Dixon, say -- and acquire him in a trade without giving up anyone currently on their roster. That's how they got James Jones in the first place.

Otherwise it's pretty much useless.
 

Mainstreet

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They could find an unwanted player on another team making that amount or less -- Juan Dixon, say -- and acquire him in a trade without giving up anyone currently on their roster. That's how they got James Jones in the first place.

Otherwise it's pretty much useless.

I was curious because I didn't think Phoenix got a TE from the deal. However, unless the Suns are willing to spend the money saved on James Jones, I agree it's pretty useless.
 

Ollie

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They could find an unwanted player on another team making that amount or less -- Juan Dixon, say -- and acquire him in a trade without giving up anyone currently on their roster. That's how they got James Jones in the first place.

Otherwise it's pretty much useless.
:thumbup:
 

dreamcastrocks

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I was curious because I didn't think Phoenix got a TE from the deal. However, unless the Suns are willing to spend the money saved on James Jones, I agree it's pretty useless.

They made the Jones move to save money. Anyone that they aquire with the TE will be added to the cap and luxury tax.

There is no way that we are using it.
 

azirish

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They made the Jones move to save money. Anyone that they aquire with the TE will be added to the cap and luxury tax.

There is no way that we are using it.

Probably, but if there are some key injuries their priorities might change.
 

sunsfn

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They made the Jones move to save money. Anyone that they aquire with the TE will be added to the cap and luxury tax.

There is no way that we are using it.

You are probably right, but they do have a year to use it, and as they get closer to the Feb. trade deadline and if they move KT it may come in handy.
 

mribnik

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James Jones is a pretty classy guy. Good luck to him in Portland!

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/0703sunsnotes-ON.html?&wired

James Jones, who is headed to Portland once a Suns draft night trade is finalized, spoke about the deal for the first time Tuesday to KTAR-AM.

"The last two years have been the greatest years of my basketball career," he said, later adding, "The fans (in Phoenix) are phenomenal. They can't be replaced or they can't be compared with anyone in the country."
 

azirish

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By all evidence, Jones is an intelligent and consciencious player. I'm sure if he had stayed he'd continue to be of some value. But it looks like the Suns really do believe they'll get Hill and there just would not be the minutes for him. Great guy though.
 

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