Jay Cutler haters: I'm curious just how much you have seen of this guy?

[Lomax to Green 84]

I'm an SEC guy and I even have to admit I haven't seen nearly enough tape of Jay Cutler to make an honest judgement. I am wondering where all the "Jay Cutler has bad mechanics, Jay Cutler can't win, Jay Cutler doesn't make those around him better" quotes are coming from? Could it be that you simply are reading the "experts" and running with what they have to say?

I saw the Vandy/Tennessee game. Jay Cutler is not Josh McCown. He has a command of the huddle and field presence that McCown does not have. I saw Cutler bark at his linemen, give instructions to his recievers, not bang his helmet like McCown, and not kiss his coaches butt like McCown. Plus he has a cannon for an arm.

I don't know if Cutler is going to be good. Lets be honest folks, none of us do. But I think its time to take a chance on a quarterback in the first round and if it is Jay Cutler so be it.

 

[DKCards]

This guy just doesn't look like he can play QB to me......
http://www.jaycutler.com/

 

[Shane]

I'm an SEC guy and I even have to admit I haven't seen nearly enough tape of Jay Cutler to make an honest judgement. I am wondering where all the "Jay Cutler has bad mechanics, Jay Cutler can't win, Jay Cutler doesn't make those around him better" quotes are coming from? Could it be that you simply are reading the "experts" and running with what they have to say?

I saw the Vandy/Tennessee game. Jay Cutler is not Josh McCown. He has a command of the huddle and field presence that McCown does not have. I saw Cutler bark at his linemen, give instructions to his recievers, not bang his helmet like McCown, and not kiss his coaches butt like McCown. Plus he has a cannon for an arm.

I don't know if Cutler is going to be good. Lets be honest folks, none of us do. But I think its time to take a chance on a quarterback in the first round and if it is Jay Cutler so be it.

Sorry Holian but based on your comments I could say how much have you seen McCown play. McCown was repeatedly speaking to his WR's after plays, and I have seen him him be all fired up barking at the OL. I have seen Tom Brady, DOnovan Mcnabb, and many other PB caliber QB's bang their helmets in frustration at times. So I really dont get what your trying to say with that?

Also what makes you say that McCown kissed the coaches butt? What behavior of his was so much different on screen than any other QB you see on the sideline that can make you say he kissed the coaches butts?

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Sorry Holian but based on your comments I could say how much have you seen McCown play. McCown was repeatedly speaking to his WR's after plays, and I have seen him him be all fired up barking at the OL. I have seen Tom Brady, DOnovan Mcnabb, and many other PB caliber QB's bang their helmets in frustration at times. So I really dont get what your trying to say with that?

Also what makes you say that McCown kissed the coaches butt? What behavior of his was so much different on screen than any other QB you see on the sideline that can make you say he kissed the coaches butts?

Let it go Shane......Let it go.....

 

[Solar7]

I'll admit, I haven't seen much of his play.

But when I look at the lack of games he won, even giving him credit because of his surrounding talent, it makes me wonder if he can really be a guy who is so much of a difference maker that he can be a guy who will be the one to pull our franchise out of the proverbial gutter.

Plus, most of the descriptions I've heard about this guy remind me of Kyle Boller, who I was never, and am not, impressed with.

Cutler's got potential, and I wouldn't be miserable with him at 10, but in my mind, he's clearly the number three guy.

 

[JeffGollin]

Holian - Just because some people don't rate Cutler as a top 10 draft prospect this year doesn't mean that they "hate" him - All it means is that they feel there are 10 or more other players coming out this year who are better.

Note - The Baldinger DVD of his top 75 prospects provides a pretty healthy video chunk of Cutler highlights and drill performance.

Pardon my allergy to Kool Aid, but the more I see or hear about Cutler, the more he reminds me of Josh McCown when he came out (i.e. great cannon, strong kid, good mobility, terrific competitiveness but raw in the area of things like mechanics and tangibles). Nothing wrong with that, except that (a) McCown was picked in the 3rd round and (b) if we wanted someone like Josh, all we had to do was re-sign him; so why would we now want to use our #10 pick on Cutler?

Again, I don't "hate" Cutler. I do, however, feel we may have better options at #10 (including possibly trading down - & if we somehow wound up with Cutler at #14 or #15 along with the extra pick, I wouldn't be inclined to call Dr. Kevorkian).

 

[Shane]

Let it go Shane......Let it go.....

Im not holding onto anything. Holian is it appears. He has to compare Cutler to McCown as though there is anything to compare. His statements are just false.

 

[Lomax to Green 84]

Im not holding onto anything. Holian is it appears. He has to compare Cutler to McCown as though there is anything to compare. His statements are just false.

Shane, my post was somewhat "tongue in cheek" in its nature. What is was trying to get at is that most of us who think we are experts really are not and most of the info. we get on guys are what we read in these bogus draft books.

I don't have any freaking clue if Jay Cutler is the answer or not. Its just funny to hear guys on this board belt out opinions and I stress opinions and they want us to believe they are gospel.

Also, I always was a McCown supporter. However, when I met Josh in 2003 I thought I was talking to a high school kid instead of a pro quarterback. He doesn't have any kind of presence about him and that has always been a huge concern of mine. Sure he is enthusiastic, but enthusiatic in a corny way that doesn't get the respect of his teammates. Remember the attempt he made to fire up the team after the San Fran. game and he kept going on and on about stuff and guys were just sitting there looking at each other wondering when Josh was going to stop. I always got the feeling that teammates liked Josh, but they didn't take him serious.

 

[TheCardFan]

Pardon my allergy to Kool Aid, but the more I see or hear about Cutler, the more he reminds me of Josh McCown when he came out (i.e. great cannon, strong kid, good mobility, terrific competitiveness but raw in the area of things like mechanics and tangibles). Nothing wrong with that, except that (a) McCown was picked in the 3rd round and (b) if we wanted someone like Josh, all we had to do was re-sign him; so why would we now want to use our #10 pick on Cutler?

You really can't argue with this point. Cutler is much more Josh McCown than Leinert. Cutler is being "projected" into the NFL using a very dangerous formula...small school/live arm. He doesn't have the production to warrant a #1 pick, IMO. If you want a small school prospect with production, draft Omar Jacobs later in the draft. He has a career TD/INT of 71/11 and a better lifetime QB efficiency rating than Leinert.

 

[Lomax to Green 84]

You really can't argue with this point. Cutler is much more Josh McCown than Leinert. Cutler is being "projected" into the NFL using a very dangerous formula...small school/live arm. He doesn't have the production to warrant a #1 pick, IMO. If you want a small school prospect with production, draft Omar Jacobs later in the draft. He has a career TD/INT of 71/11 and a better lifetime QB efficiency rating than Leinert.

Last time I checked Vanderbilt plays in probably the toughest conference in football (SEC). Hardly the same as playing at Sam Houston State (McCown).

 

[War Birds]

umm McCown was an extreme butt kisser. After the San Fran game didnt he take the game ball and run it over to Micheal Bidwill??? If that is not kissing serious A*S then i dont know what it is....Josh McCown's stay in Arizona made me sick to my stomach and I'm glad we booted his butt out of town

 

[CardinalChris]

You really can't argue with this point. Cutler is much more Josh McCown than Leinert. Cutler is being "projected" into the NFL using a very dangerous formula...small school/live arm. He doesn't have the production to warrant a #1 pick, IMO. If you want a small school prospect with production, draft Omar Jacobs later in the draft. He has a career TD/INT of 71/11 and a better lifetime QB efficiency rating than Leinert.

And can be had in the thrid IMO. Sometimes it isn't that player X is better than player Y. It is that the difference in talent between the two compared to draft position is important.

Let's say I rate Cutler as a 90 and Jacobs as an 85. (imaginary numbers based on nothing, just as an example). Is Cutler really that much better that I should draft him #10 overall instead of a QB like Jacobs in the third?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I'm no fan of Cutler but he's probably twice the prospect Josh McCown was. Cutler won SEC Player of the Year for heaven's sake while at a similar point in McCown's career he was transferring out of Southern Methodist because he couldn't hack it. Cutler is being talked about as a first round prospect while McCown was only drafted on the first day because our former coaching staff liked marginally talented players who tried hard. Apples and oranges.

 

[TheCardFan]

Last time I checked Vanderbilt plays in probably the toughest conference in football (SEC). Hardly the same as playing at Sam Houston State (McCown).

Nobody is debating the quality of the SEC. IMO, it would be a huge gamble to take Cutler in the top 20 picks in rd 1. It's a gamble the Cards really shouldn't even consider based on our lack of winning. Playoff teams can take those types of gambles we can't yet.

I understand that every player in the draft is a "gamble" but teams like the Cards need can't afford the higher risk/higher reward players like Cutler. Cutler is a complete projection. Tough conference, small school, live arm, competitive, but a real lack of production (stats/wins).

 

[kerouac9]

I'm an SEC guy and I even have to admit I haven't seen nearly enough tape of Jay Cutler to make an honest judgement. I am wondering where all the "Jay Cutler has bad mechanics, Jay Cutler can't win, Jay Cutler doesn't make those around him better" quotes are coming from? Could it be that you simply are reading the "experts" and running with what they have to say?

I'll admit that all I've seen of Cutler is Vandy's highlight reels of his games against Alabama and some really crappy school (Hardy?). From his highlight reel, I saw that he wasn't taking snaps from under center unless it was for play-action, I saw that he doesn't set his feet and step into his throws, and I saw that he continually makes "jump passes" and pulls his feet under him on the throw. I also saw him have really inconsistent footwork at those times that he did drop back from under center. If these were his highlight reels, what does the rest of his play look like?

What really bothers me about the kid, though, is that no one can really seem to articulate what makes him a Top 10 prospect. Leinart's a winner. E. Manning had success with a crappy school at Ole Miss and had pedigree. V. Young is a great athlete, leader, and winner. B. Roethlisberger had size, arm strength, leadership, and was a winner for a mid-major. What is it that Cutler has?

 

[football karma]

What really bothers me about the kid, though, is that no one can really seem to articulate what makes him a Top 10 prospect. Leinart's a winner. E. Manning had success with a crappy school at Ole Miss and had pedigree. V. Young is a great athlete, leader, and winner. B. Roethlisberger had size, arm strength, leadership, and was a winner for a mid-major. What is it that Cutler has?

Cutler and Leinart seem to be mirror images of each other:

Cutler has the the size and the big arm that NFL scouts look for, as well as being a smart player who went through his progressions -- but -- his production has been only above average and he has lost more games than he won. Scouts are ready to give him a pass because he played for a team that was significantly outmatched week in and week out.

Leinart has size, but people really wonder about his arm-- which is described as "adequate" -- he has great production and is definately a winner, but scouts pause because he played for a team that week in and week out was signifcantly more talented that its competition.

 

[kerouac9]

That's the thing with Cutler, there's nothing that stands out about him. Scouts, Inc. evaluated him as a "B" prospect coming out of the Senior Bowl. None of his attributes rated an "A" grade. I just don't think you spend a Top 10 pick on a guy that's pretty good at everything, but not great at anything.

 

[Mulli]

I have seen every bowl game this guy ever played in except the Senior Bowl...

 

[kerouac9]

I have seen every bowl game this guy ever played in except the Senior Bowl...

 

[Russ Smith]

I haven't seen him play much at all but to me a more fair comparison at least in college would be Brett Favre? Played at a school in a big conference, perennial loser team. Great arm, good athlete, bad mechanics.

The Josh comparison to me doesn't wash, Josh was in a bad situation at SMU and chose to transfer to play more. While you can't fault him, it's completely different than Cutler who was in a bad situation and stuck it out and apparently played his way into the first round of the draft.

Not saying Cutler will have the pro career Favre did or that his arm is as good, just saying his college career reminds me a lot more of Favre's(or even Eli Manning) than it does of Josh's college career.

 

[Lomax to Green 84]

That's the thing with Cutler, there's nothing that stands out about him. Scouts, Inc. evaluated him as a "B" prospect coming out of the Senior Bowl. None of his attributes rated an "A" grade. I just don't think you spend a Top 10 pick on a guy that's pretty good at everything, but not great at anything.

K9,

I agree with your assessment about Cutler and that is a concern (no particularly great qualities). The thing about him that intrigues me comes more in the area of intangibles. This may sound silly, but I saw an interview that Cutler gave after the combine and I can't explain it but he has that "it" that people talk about. During my humble athletic career I had alot of people tell me that even though I lacked athletic talent, I was a guy teammates listened to and responded in a positive way to. In watching that interview with Cutler, I saw many of those same types of qualities. He seems to have a quiet confidence and a way about him that will be a positive in a huddle.

Favre has it and Brady has it and even Plummer has it and all three guys are completely different in their make-ups. I can tell you that McCown does not have it. I think this Cutler kid does.

 

[football karma]

That's the thing with Cutler, there's nothing that stands out about him. Scouts, Inc. evaluated him as a "B" prospect coming out of the Senior Bowl. None of his attributes rated an "A" grade. I just don't think you spend a Top 10 pick on a guy that's pretty good at everything, but not great at anything.

I think the scouts would say he has "A" rated arm strength --

the scouting report on Cutler is a little like the scouting report on Jake with the Cards -- talented, but how much of the inconsistent play can be attributed to a bad supporting cast. Like with Jake, all it takes is one team to conclude the problems were with the supporting cast.

 

[kerouac9]

I think the scouts would say he has "A" rated arm strength --

the scouting report on Cutler is a little like the scouting report on Jake with the Cards -- talented, but how much of the inconsistent play can be attributed to a bad supporting cast. Like with Jake, all it takes is one team to conclude the problems were with the supporting cast.

Nope:

Arm Strength
B+
Very good arm strength but not elite. Compared to Brett Favre, but is not nearly in that class.

I didn't know that Cutler was suspended in 2002 for getting in trouble with the police for underage drunken/disorderly behavoir. Shouldn't matter now, anyway, but that's an interesting note. I think that a lot of scouts have this same bottom-line, which makes me wonder what the deal is with so many people repeating that he's a top choice:

In our opinion, Cutler grades out as a mid-first round prospect in this year's talent pool. At this point, however, it wouldn't be a surprise for Cutler to come off the board within the top-five picks.

 

[Captain Matt]

No Cutler analysis..... Just McClown bashing......

Please watch the 5 minutes at the end of the game when Emmit threw his TD. I was embarassed for the league's all time rushing leader. Then I saw a repeat in the Mexico City game with a 2 minute hero-worship narrative of "what would Kurt Warner have done" by our intrepid young QB. If I ever went up and rubbed someone's butt for a nice landing and lead him up and down the tarmac pointing at him and saying "he's the man" I'd never be able to show my face again.... What a fruit cake!!! Then there was the 2004 Oakland game..... he pulled it together in the 4th, but that 3rd quarter was like watching a high schooler playing against the pros. As soon as the ball is snapped he's running all over the place and throwing it at people's feet.... then he starts beating his helmt and can't regain his composure..... I think Boomer was calling the game and trying to stay policitally correct as he was making comments about not seeing the pressure and wondering if there were miscommunications in the huddle. It was pretty sad. He had athletic ability and football knowledge was always there. And still is. But he is seriously lacking in leadership on the field and "moxy, confidence, marbles, guts, etc." McClown is a good back-up or a competent starting puppet for a strong coach, but not a player who will win consistently..... And yes, I'm not forgetting the flashes of brilliance (Minnesota), but I'm still glad he's gone.

 

[TheCardFan]

I haven't seen him play much at all but to me a more fair comparison at least in college would be Brett Favre? Played at a school in a big conference, perennial loser team. Great arm, good athlete, bad mechanics.

This is probably a more fair comparison, however, even Favre wasn't a #1 pick, much less a top 10 pick.

The Cardinals have no business drafting a guy like Cutler in the top 10.