JJ's Financial Advisor on AM 910

[frdbtr]

first of all, not all agents are lawyers. second of all, what does one's profession have to do with "say[ing] whatever they need to to [sic] their [sic] own face and the face of their [sic] clients."????

When I wrote that I was thinking of you Ouchie. I have heard agent speak before and I am just a skeptic when it comes to agents.

 

[Mainstreet]

Despite what everyone thinks, the players hold most of the cards in free agency especially when they have a team willing to break the bank to get them. Either the Suns match or they don't. The suns said all summer that they would match ANY (including a max) offer until JJ said on ESPN that he wanted to be a Hawk and asked the Suns not to match the Hawks offer. HE is the one that said that, the Suns didn't. I am more inclined to believe what Azcentral said about JJ telling players and Suns management something that he said publicly then hearing an agent's spin after the fact. Just call me naive but agents are Lawyers and will say whatever they need to to save thier own face and the face of thier clients.

Exactly. And the proposed sign and trade requires JJ's approval.

If JJ backed out and said there was just a misunderstanding, I'm still sure the Suns would at least match Atlanta's offer. Hopefully this explains the lack of activity this morning except the remarks reportedly made from JJ's "Financial Advisor."

I'm still hoping JJ has second thoughts. There would be no shame in doing so.

 

[Lars the Red]

first of all, not all agents are lawyers. second of all, what does one's profession have to do with "say[ing] whatever they need to to [sic] their [sic] own face and the face of their [sic] clients."????

It's called profiling, and in this case it works perfectly. Lawyers are not taught to up hold the law or to be honest in anyway. They are taught how to utilize the law, manipulate it. The vast majority of agents are also lawyers. Contracts are legal documents.

What's tough to figure out here? A large number of agents suck, a large number of lawyer suck. A large number of agents lie, a large number of lawyers lie. A large percentage of agents are lawyers. See, profiling works.

 

[clif]

I would be one of the first to welcome him back.... but damn I guess money doesn't buy you a competent spokesman.

 

[frdbtr]

I would be one of the first to welcome him back.... but damn I guess money doesn't buy you a competent spokesman.

I would welcome him back as well but he isn't coming back and he made the decision to leave on his own. I still think that the suns would have matched Atlanta's offer if JJ hadn't told them not to. The suns may have traded him down the road because the Salary Hell that they would have been in over the next couple of years is well documented but I still think that they would have matched.

 

[clif]

I would welcome him back as well but he isn't coming back and he made the decision to leave on his own. I still think that the suns would have matched Atlanta's offer if JJ hadn't told them not to. The suns may have traded him down the road because the Salary Hell that they would have been in over the next couple of years is well documented but I still think that they would have matched.

Exactly.. I will take Marion over JJ anyday.

 

[RedForeman]

It's called profiling, and in this case it works perfectly. Lawyers are not taught to up hold the law or to be honest in anyway. They are taught how to utilize the law, manipulate it. The vast majority of agents are also lawyers. Contracts are legal documents.

What's tough to figure out here? A large number of agents suck, a large number of lawyer suck. A large number of agents lie, a large number of lawyers lie. A large percentage of agents are lawyers. See, profiling works.

Not pulling any punches there are you Lars?

 

[JCSunsfan]

OK, its official, JJ is a doofus.

How would you feel if you are Atlanta right now. In essence, JJ, through his agent, is saying, "I was trying to squeeze everything I could out of the Suns and I was ticked at them for the insulting offers they made to me. I was using you to get them to pony up. But now that has backfired. I would really rather have played there, but now I have to play for you."

He has insulted both teams. He has basically told both teams that he doesn't want to play for them (and that he wants to play for them).

I believe that JJ woke up this morning and read all the clippings about how stupid he is for wanting to go to Atlanta, and got a huge case of "buyers remorse."

By the way, for all of you that think Sarver is cheap. He was willing to sign JJ, knowing he would have to trade JJ or Shawn next summer, just to get a shot at a ring now. Thats actually pretty gutsy.

 

[green machine]

So the Suns called JJ's bluff...Wow, this whole situation is a greek tragedy.

JJ could easily have not said what he did, he could have kept his mouth shut, and then the Suns would not have had an out. But JJ said what he said, which left Sarver with the ammunition to not match.

Sounds alot like McDyess again doesn't it, player gets some bad advice and follows it.

 

[Mainstreet]

A quote comes to mind attributed to Yogi Berra.


"It's not over until it's over."

 

[JCSunsfan]

A quote comes to mind attributed to Yogi Berra.


"It's not over until it's over."

JJ could still force the Suns to keep him. All he has to do is refuse the sign and trade deal, and sign Atlanta's offer sheet.

That's why I think what this agent is saying is absolutely bogus. He could stay if he wants, even now.

No THAT would be interesting. Do you force him to stay now?

 

[Lars the Red]

Not pulling any punches there are you Lars?

If it smells like a turd, looks like a turd and acts like a turd, that's all I really need to know. The taste test just isn't necessary from that point.

 

[Mainstreet]

JJ could still force the Suns to keep him. All he has to do is refuse the sign and trade deal, and sign Atlanta's offer sheet.

That's why I think what this agent is saying is absolutely bogus. He could stay if he wants, even now.

No THAT would be interesting. Do you force him to stay now?

I wonder if this would effect the agent's commision if JJ refused the sign and trade or if JJ really cares that much about the way Atlanta has structured his contract?

I guess I really don't know how agents are paid these days.

Perhaps there could be a difference in what JJ wants... that it is more than just about dollars and cents (if Phoenix can give him a similar offer). I don't know anymore.

If I were JJ (and unsure), I would get another opinion by a neutral party. He might be being lead around by others with a different agenda. It sure does sound like the McDyess situation all over again.

 

[CaptainInsano]

The question for me is:

does JJ REALLY want to play in PHX

or does he REALLY want to play in ATL

Right now its all

 

[asudevil83]

if JJ REALLY wanted to play in phoenix, then he would have never even entertained the offer from Atlanta. Using Atlanta as leverage in order to get more money from sarver is really a slap in the face to both teams.

1.) it uses Atlanta's desparity against them. they REALLY need someone for this team. and they REALLY suck. JJ pretty much went to them and said "hey, i'll sign your offer sheet, not because i want to play for you guys, but because i want this team that i want to play for to pay me more."

2.) it goes back to the suns. "hey robert, i know you guys dont really want to pay me more than i'm worth. this other team does. i dont really want to play for them, but if you REALLY want me to play for you.....well then you are going to have to overpay for me because i want you too. oh, and by the way....i know this means that you'll probably have to get rid of another fan favorite (Marion), but quite frankly i dont give a damn. and lastly.....you really WOULDNT want to back down from this, would you? i mean you already said you'd match any offer. so if i were you, i'd just avoid looking like a boob and match."

 

[King A]

"hey robert, i know you guys dont really want to pay me more than i'm worth. this other team does. i dont really want to play for them, but if you REALLY want me to play for you.....well then you are going to have to overpay for me because i want you too. oh, and by the way....i know this means that you'll probably have to get rid of another fan favorite (Marion), but quite frankly i dont give a damn. and lastly.....you really WOULDNT want to back down from this, would you? i mean you already said you'd match any offer. so if i were you, i'd just avoid looking like a boob and match."

yeah, very nice

i mean, the less money I earn in the NBA with the Salary Cap, the better the team is off.
Anyhow no player gets it. They all want to make as much money as possible when with taking less, the team could dramatically improve via financial flexibility.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

When I wrote that I was thinking of you Ouchie. I have heard agent speak before and I am just a skeptic when it comes to agents.

no blood, no foul.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's called profiling, and in this case it works perfectly. Lawyers are not taught to up hold the law or to be honest in anyway. They are taught how to utilize the law, manipulate it. The vast majority of agents are also lawyers. Contracts are legal documents.

What's tough to figure out here? A large number of agents suck, a large number of lawyer suck. A large number of agents lie, a large number of lawyers lie. A large percentage of agents are lawyers. See, profiling works.

i sincerely hope you are kidding.

lawyers are not taught how to flaunt the law, they are taught the law, how to conduct legal research, and how to think and reason regarding legal issues. it is how each individual uses this knowledge that determines if the lawyer is ethical or not. and use of the word "manipulate" is semantics. the common law, from its inception, was a living, breathing, evolving thing. it is MEANT to be interpreted. it retains its flexibility to fit an ever-changing society that way.

as for your second paragraph . . . a lot of ALL professions suck. lawyers are not alone in this. the fact of the matter is, lawyers, through the media, are just a very visible profession. and because they tend to get compensated well (though not nearly what the general public thinks . . . the 80s are long gone) the public is quick to jump on them. in fact, it is usually only the controversial attorneys that get media attention anyway, so the vast public's opinion of them (including yours apparently) is skewed. finally, most people hate dealing with attorneys b/c of the situations they've found themselves in. it is not the attorney that chooses to sue you, it is the individual that hires the attorney. it is not the attorney that chooses to divorce you, it is the spouse. most of these situations may become so untenable that they become dangerous w/out the aid of attorneys.

as for lying attorneys as a professional norm . . . if you believe that you're an idiot. we are one of the professions that actually have a code of ethics that we are BOUND to follow. not an oath. not a promise. a legal code that we must follow or we are punished.

now back to sports . . . agents are the mouthpieces for their clients. they are meant to deflect blame from the client. that's one of the things they're paid for. whenever you see a ballplayer holding out or demanding a trade and your first inclination is to blame the agent, actually stop and turn your brain on again. the agent may suggest ways to get something better, but the initial inclination to holdout or make a demand had to take hold of something already existing within the player. don't absolve the players of their responsibilities. they are grown men (even if they don't always act like it).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If it smells like a turd, looks like a turd and acts like a turd, that's all I really need to know. The taste test just isn't necessary from that point.

lars, casting stones like that, i sincerely hope you work for a philanthropic organization...

 

[KloD]

i sincerely hope you are kidding.

lawyers are not taught how to flaunt the law, they are taught the law, how to conduct legal research, and how to think and reason regarding legal issues. it is how each individual uses this knowledge that determines if the lawyer is ethical or not. and use of the word "manipulate" is semantics. the common law, from its inception, was a living, breathing, evolving thing. it is MEANT to be interpreted. it retains its flexibility to fit an ever-changing society that way.

as for your second paragraph . . . a lot of ALL professions suck. lawyers are not alone in this. the fact of the matter is, lawyers, through the media, are just a very visible profession. and because they tend to get compensated well (though not nearly what the general public thinks . . . the 80s are long gone) the public is quick to jump on them. in fact, it is usually only the controversial attorneys that get media attention anyway, so the vast public's opinion of them (including yours apparently) is skewed. finally, most people hate dealing with attorneys b/c of the situations they've found themselves in. it is not the attorney that chooses to sue you, it is the individual that hires the attorney. it is not the attorney that chooses to divorce you, it is the spouse. most of these situations may become so untenable that they become dangerous w/out the aid of attorneys.

as for lying attorneys as a professional norm . . . if you believe that you're an idiot. we are one of the professions that actually have a code of ethics that we are BOUND to follow. not an oath. not a promise. a legal code that we must follow or we are punished.

now back to sports . . . agents are the mouthpieces for their clients. they are meant to deflect blame from the client. that's one of the things they're paid for. whenever you see a ballplayer holding out or demanding a trade and your first inclination is to blame the agent, actually stop and turn your brain on again. the agent may suggest ways to get something better, but the initial inclination to holdout or make a demand had to take hold of something already existing within the player. don't absolve the players of their responsibilities. they are grown men (even if they don't always act like it).

Amen

Amazing a "saleman" calling others liars.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I wonder if this would effect the agent's commision if JJ refused the sign and trade or if JJ really cares that much about the way Atlanta has structured his contract?

I guess I really don't know how agents are paid these days.

Perhaps there could be a difference in what JJ wants... that it is more than just about dollars and cents (if Phoenix can give him a similar offer). I don't know anymore.

If I were JJ (and unsure), I would get another opinion by a neutral party. He might be being lead around by others with a different agenda. It sure does sound like the McDyess situation all over again.

he'd have to be an idiot in a bunker with no access to the public for him to be lead around to that extent. dice was just an idiot, not mislead by anyone. he wanted to play with his friend and get out from under the microscope of a contending team. weak-willed at the time.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Agents have a maximum of 4% commission on a trade.

Since the terms are the same whether he outright signed the deal with Atlanta and whether he did a sign and trade the rip is the same.

 

[az240zz]

naw, this is a done deal. sarver's a cheap ass boob and jj's an idiot. hurrah for everyone except us suns fans.

Cheap ass boob????

How much money did Sarver lay out last year?? You gus think $75 MILLION is chup change. Come on, Sarver took a gamble last year and lost. Let JJ go to Atlanta, maybe he will become the second coming og MJ or Bird or the Doctor and will be a bargain but I don't think so.

He is going to basketball hell and will probably not be heard from again.

az240z

 

[Lars the Red]

Amen

Amazing a "saleman" calling others liars.

We 'salemen' are honest enough to recognize that the truth is not always at the forefront of a transaction. It's only the legal profession that feels the need to constantly wrap themselves in one oath or another, proclaiming their undying values. It's pure BS. I've met dozens of lawyers in my life, and truth be known, I didn't trust any of them. I wouldn't consider any of them honorable. I found most repulsive. I have absolutely no friends that are members of that profession.

Agents and lawyers. Lawyers and agents. Both say they are only looking for the common good of a client, yet both with twist and fabricate to any stretch of the imagination in order to 'win'. There is no honor in that. The only idiots I know are the ones that are members of that slimey group, who kid themselves into believing they are somehow valuable to society. They are parasites at best.

As you say, back to sports. I don't give players a pass when their agent steps in and obviously lies to the world, knowing it to be nothing more than that. I think the player shows a cowardice by not facing situations without the 'mouth piece'. The agent who is only there to 'deflect', is really only there to do what they do best...lie.

 

[Big Deal]

zing