Johnathan Cooper--On Notice?

[kerouac9]

Yeah I've noticed him on the ground ALOT. It looks like he's really pressing - trying so hard to make contact, he winds up on the ground. That's how you get injured.

I also noticed how fat he looked, jogging up, tailing a couple plays. He was jiggling big time. I guess that's part of his mojo though. And maybe that's part of the problem. He's just an odd type of athlete. Maybe that combination of fat and athletic takes a long time to fine tune. I also wonder where his strength is at. I thought I remembered last year, he was one of the strongest OL at the combine. I know Campbell remarked about how strong Cooper was in practice. Is that strength still there?

I have it on good authority from someone who hasn't seen a single practice that Cooper is in shape.

 

[BigRedRage]

Because he's the 4th WR--maybe the 3rd before too long.

i gues I just wasnt thinking clearly. I was seeing Ginn as #4 but hes #3.

 

[8ndkorner]

Nonsense. He had a 10 week injury nearly a year ago. It's a broken leg, not an ACL or an Achilles. Who never recovers from a broken leg?

Any Bronco. Because otherwise why is the only choice to just shoot them?

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Nonsense. He had a 10 week injury nearly a year ago. It's a broken leg, not an ACL or an Achilles. Who never recovers from a broken leg?

Joe Theisman, Gale Sayers ?

Augustus McCrae ?

Gimpy McGimpsalot ?

 

[kerouac9]

Joe Theisman, Gale Sayers ?

Augustus McCrae ?

Gimpy McGimpsalot ?

I think there might have been some additional damage from this:



The booth must've had no idea what was coming in that reverse-angle replay. No chance that gets on TV today.

Sayers had knee injuries.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I think there might have been some additional damage from this:



The booth must've had no idea what was coming in that reverse-angle replay. No chance that gets on TV today.

Sayers had knee injuries.

....and to be fair, modern medicine probably fixes Theisman as well.

 

[Mulli]

Tim Krumrie's broken ankle/leg looked like it was flapping in the wind in the Super Bowl.

 

[Mulli]

BIM Jonathan.

 

[Russ Smith]

I have it on good authority from someone who hasn't seen a single practice that Cooper is in shape.

talk about selective reading. The guy says that Cooper needs to work on his balance to stay off the ground, which is EXACTLY what Arians said in June, that he's not the athlete he was before and he needs to get his balance back.

So you ignore all that and jump on the he's fat comment.

FYI I can show you 2 different places where Arians said much of it is "rust" but that Cooper needs to pick it up to get back into the speed of the game, but I can't find a single place where Arians said he's fat, out of shape or anything of the sort.

In fact I can't find a single place where I said he wasn't out of shape either. I just said Arians didn't say he was and you replied you don't think there's a difference between out of shape, and not the same athlete.

I can also find a place not far from here where Keim refers to it as a serious injury, but I have it on good authority from someone who hasn't seen a single x ray or MRI of it that it was just a routine injury of the 10 week variety. So what does Keim know?

 

[TJ]

BIM Jonathan.

Perhaps he should change the spelling of his name to accommodate the title of this thread

 

[Chopper0080]

I should say this: I don't think that Cooper is a bust; I don't think that Cooper's job is in jeopardy. Occham's razor tells me that the coaches think that Cooper is holding back, and are trying to remind him that no one's job is secure, that he's not Jared Veldheer, and that he's going to have to bring it. Every down.

The reality is that there's been one full-contact practice, and Cooper hasn't had the opportunity to destroy people day in and day out. I don't think this is about an injury; I think this is about effort.[/QUOTE]

To further this point, I believe it is a statement that you don't get as much time as you want to recover. You have been given time, you are cleared to play, and you need to ramp it up. No more babying.

 

[kerouac9]

I can also find a place not far from here where Keim refers to it as a serious injury, but I have it on good authority from someone who hasn't seen a single x ray or MRI of it that it was just a routine injury of the 10 week variety. So what does Keim know?

Well, today Keim is trying to support his first top pick, and the 7th overall pick in the 2013 draft. So, unless there were pins put in or something more complicated, lets go back 11 months and see where the Cards stood:

According to Darren Urban of AZCardinals.com, Arians indicated he hopes Cooper will be able to play this season.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/25/cardinals-guard-jonathan-cooper-has-broken-leg/

Sounds serious.

 

[Russ Smith]

Well, today Keim is trying to support his first top pick, and the 7th overall pick in the 2013 draft. So, unless there were pins put in or something more complicated, lets go back 11 months and see where the Cards stood:



http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/25/cardinals-guard-jonathan-cooper-has-broken-leg/

Sounds serious.

Wow hard to argue that logic. So the same night he broke his leg Darren Urban writes on Twitter the coach still hopes he can come back this season and that's the basis of your argument that the injury wasn't serious and that Cooper was just lazy and got fat?

The coach hadn't seen any x rays or anything either, in fact even if he had he's not a doctor, he has no idea. He just said he HOPED his first pick would be able to come back.

After they saw the extent of the injury, surprise they put him on a list that meant he couldn't come back that year.

 

[kerouac9]

Wow hard to argue that logic. So the same night he broke his leg Darren Urban writes on Twitter the coach still hopes he can come back this season and that's the basis of your argument that the injury wasn't serious and that Cooper was just lazy and got fat?

The coach hadn't seen any x rays or anything either, in fact even if he had he's not a doctor, he has no idea. He just said he HOPED his first pick would be able to come back.

After they saw the extent of the injury, surprise they put him on a list that meant he couldn't come back that year.

Pretty sure they have an X-ray and team doctors on site at Cardinals games. Without such, how could the team even have properly diagnosed Cooper with a broken bone?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9616423/jonathan-cooper-arizona-cardinals-season

"Based on the medical prognosis and weighing all of the other factors, we decided that placing him on IR made the most sense for the team and for Jonathan," first-year Cardinals general manager Steve Keim said in a statement released by the team. "Knowing his work ethic and commitment, we have no doubt Jonathan will come out of this experience fully ready to be a key contributor next season and for many more beyond that."

I've provided the evidence from the time of the injury that this was "just" a broken leg--the kind that tends to come back stronger. This wasn't a compound fracture, and there hasn't been a report that any ligament or muscle damage.

"The leg is coming along, it's pretty good, I can't complain," Cooper told Doug and Wolf on Arizona Sports 98.7 FM Tuesday. "Every day, Monday through Friday, they try to have variations with me running, doing strengthening exercises, balance, all that stuff. But every day they find something different for me to do."

http://arizonasports.com/40/1705651...er-still-working-his-way-back-from-leg-injury

That report is from February. At some point, do you want to come up with some historical evidence that doesn't suggest that Keim is just covering for his guy?

 

[BigRedRage]

Urban said today Lindley is tied with Thomas for the #3 spot. If thomas is as good as lindley already and lindley has been here 3 years then I am glad we are replacing him.

 

[Mulli]

Urban said today Lindley is tied with Thomas for the #3 spot. If thomas is as good as lindley already and lindley has been here 3 years then I am glad we are replacing him.

 

[Russ Smith]

Pretty sure they have an X-ray and team doctors on site at Cardinals games. Without such, how could the team even have properly diagnosed Cooper with a broken bone?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9616423/jonathan-cooper-arizona-cardinals-season



I've provided the evidence from the time of the injury that this was "just" a broken leg--the kind that tends to come back stronger. This wasn't a compound fracture, and there hasn't been a report that any ligament or muscle damage.



http://arizonasports.com/40/1705651...er-still-working-his-way-back-from-leg-injury

That report is from February. At some point, do you want to come up with some historical evidence that doesn't suggest that Keim is just covering for his guy?

Much confusion now. You quoted Arians the night of the injury saying he hoped he'd be back the same year as proof it was just a 10 week injury. When I point that out you cite a quote from KEIM , SIX DAYS LATER, saying based on the available evidence they put him on a list that means he can't play at all.

First you moved the date back six days, changed from Arians to Keim, and then produced a quote that supported what I said, that Arians didn't have the right evidence available when he said that.

Can you kindly cite a list of 320 pound offensive linemen known for their athleticism who broke their leg and came back 10 weeks later?

There IS a reason they put him out for the year, they expected it was going to take awhile. Back in June Arians said he wasn't surprised the kid wasn't 100% yet.

He's not happy now because we're getting closer to the season, he STILL hasn't said the kid is fat or out of shape or anything of the sort, he just said the kid has to step up now and play better.

 

[kerouac9]

Much confusion now. You quoted Arians the night of the injury saying he hoped he'd be back the same year as proof it was just a 10 week injury. When I point that out you cite a quote from KEIM , SIX DAYS LATER, saying based on the available evidence they put him on a list that means he can't play at all.

First you moved the date back six days, changed from Arians to Keim, and then produced a quote that supported what I said, that Arians didn't have the right evidence available when he said that.

Can you kindly cite a list of 320 pound offensive linemen known for their athleticism who broke their leg and came back 10 weeks later?

There IS a reason they put him out for the year, they expected it was going to take awhile. Back in June Arians said he wasn't surprised the kid wasn't 100% yet.

He's not happy now because we're getting closer to the season, he STILL hasn't said the kid is fat or out of shape or anything of the sort, he just said the kid has to step up now and play better.

There were a lot of issues when Keim made that determination. It was made at the final cutdown day and included having to use that IR Designated to Return label when there were 16 games left to play. As Keim says in the quote "medical prognosis and all other factors" (emphasis mine).

Even if it was a 15 week injury, it's 50 WEEKS LATER. Who takes 50 weeks to come back from a simple broken leg?

 

[BigRedRage]

Who takes 50 weeks to come back from a simple broken leg?

Cooper.

 

[Mulli]

If he doesn't get in shape, he shall be called:

Deuce Cooper.


:boom:

 

[Russ Smith]

There were a lot of issues when Keim made that determination. It was made at the final cutdown day and included having to use that IR Designated to Return label when there were 16 games left to play. As Keim says in the quote "medical prognosis and all other factors" (emphasis mine).

Even if it was a 15 week injury, it's 50 WEEKS LATER. Who takes 50 weeks to come back from a simple broken leg?

You're the medical expert you tell me.

I'm having flashbacks to all the medical experts trashing Swann for not coming back faster from "simple knee surgery" only to find out later on he'd had microfracture and the team didn't tell anybody.

there's no such thing as a simple leg fracture, particularly when one is 320 pounds.

 

[CFLredzoned]

I also wonder where his strength is at. I thought I remembered last year, he was one of the strongest OL at the combine. I know Campbell remarked about how strong Cooper was in practice. Is that strength still there?

I hate to flog a dead horse, but I thought there was something lacking with his power. Campbell on Bickley & Marotta Tuesday, when asked about Cooper's devopment this year, as opposed to last year:

"I think last year, he was a little bit more stronger, because he had more confidence in his leg, he was alot more aggressive. I think now he's playing a little bit like he's trying to get back into it, knock off the rust. But he still has great plays. Yesterday I think was his best day, after he got called out. I assume I would be too. But he's a great player in this league. I know that when it's all said and done, he's gonna be a better player in this league. He just has to get his confidence."

Calais likes Coop and it sounded like he was trying not to be too hard on him. I just think when you have a 230-lb dude who's masquerading as a 300-lb dude, like many guards in the NFL are (see Faneca), it takes a long time to get the core back to full NFL strength, as opposed to a natural 300-lber who's "country strong". Sure you can do core workouts in the off-season, but nothing compares to banging against other 300-lbers.

 

[BigRedRage]

Guard Jonathan Cooper’s play has improved since he had his knee drained, Arians said. “I thought he moved around much better.” No word on whether the knee is any concern. Arians didn’t make it sound like it was.

http://blog.azcardinals.com/2014/08/07/b-a-talks-sims-badger-coop/

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

If he doesn't get in shape, he shall be called:

Deuce Cooper.


:boom:

Cue the Beach Boys:

"...my little deuce coop..."

Actually you can take it a little further with this exerpt from the song:

And comin' off the line when the light turns green
Well [he] blows 'em outta the water like you never seen
I get pushed out of shape and it's hard to steer
When I get rubber in all four gears

 

[kerouac9]

Wow. A hopefully this first preseason game was a huge wakeup call for Cooper.
He looked AWFUL out there, and was playing well into the second quarter.

Even leaving out the JJ Watt moment, he was getting put on the ground and turned around way, way too often.

We could see Earl Watford starting at LG next week.