LoyaltyisaCurse
IF AND WHEN HEALTHY...
The cards just never get a break when they draft an O-lineman. :cursed
Johnathan Cooper--On Notice?
- Thread starter TJ
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Jetstream Green
Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
Cooper did not look good today. I hope it revolves around the word 'today' and how demanding it is to play in the NFL with so much time off, being essentially a rookie, and facing a player like Watt. That said, this is the NFL and if he cannot get the job done... Arians has a job and that is to win, and Cooper did not look like a winner today
Exaggerated reaction. Nice.
OP
OP
TJ
Frank Kaminsky is my Hero.
Fair point. He's a de facto rookie. I think many were putting him on a pedestal too soon not considering that he's coming off of a season-ending injury and that he hasn't taken one meaningful snap in the NFL. He's going to need as much time to prepare as possible, even if it means going into the 2nd half of preseason games to get comfortable with the speed of the game.
Phrazbit
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Its really difficult to keep your strength up when a broken leg is mending. I broke my femur and I was able to walk around okay about 4 months later but it didnt start to feel right for nearly a year. And I'm a skinny dude, not some 320 pound behimouth. Those guys have enough trouble staying in shape as is.
But that does not alleviate my concern. Those knee issues are worrisome, if his muscular strength isnt back then thats a lot of stress on those knees to haul him around. His game relied a lot on quickness, its going to be really tough for him to get it back at his weight and with other stuff flaring up.
Hopefully this is all wasted breath and his stink tonight had more to do with the Texans line than his own issues.
But that does not alleviate my concern. Those knee issues are worrisome, if his muscular strength isnt back then thats a lot of stress on those knees to haul him around. His game relied a lot on quickness, its going to be really tough for him to get it back at his weight and with other stuff flaring up.
Hopefully this is all wasted breath and his stink tonight had more to do with the Texans line than his own issues.
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
Ditto...
Coop also got rolled up on at one point by one of our RB's. He stayed in the game but man my heart popped out of my chest when it happened as it looked ugly! And while he stayed in the game, he was noticeably limping...
Urban's breakdown on his blog makes it sound like cooper played well but the few bad plays are just very bad and stood out
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
I'm not sure I trust Darren Urban as either a guy who can rate play on the offensive line or as a guy who is going to say anything bad about a player currently on the roster.
Urban's study is based on the results of each play, not the process or the play involved. I think I'll trust my eyes over Urban's here. And we'll see what Arians has to say on Monday.
I haven't Re watched every snap, he did. Sounds like most of his play he did his job. The whiffs stand out yes but it sounds like the rest of the time he did fine
Coop had 4 bad plays that I counted. The Great Whiff of Preseason 2014 we all know. The play he got rolled up on he was in bad position anyway. Right after that he blocked air and went to the ground. Another play his guy beat him clean and he recovered to get some contact and went to the ground, but it didn't disrupt the play itself. otherwise, he played pretty well.
4 plays does not make AWFUL, or struggling. It isn't dominant though, but dominant isn't where he's at right now. I think every single Cardinal fan is qualified to make a judgement on awful offensive line play and we've all seen more than a lifetime's fair share of awful oline plays. Coop may not be up to what we want to see yet, but he's by NO MEANS playing awful. It isn't distressing. An area of concern? Sure, that's fair. But there is a lot of preseason and progression left to come.
4 plays does not make AWFUL, or struggling. It isn't dominant though, but dominant isn't where he's at right now. I think every single Cardinal fan is qualified to make a judgement on awful offensive line play and we've all seen more than a lifetime's fair share of awful oline plays. Coop may not be up to what we want to see yet, but he's by NO MEANS playing awful. It isn't distressing. An area of concern? Sure, that's fair. But there is a lot of preseason and progression left to come.
Watching the game again, the play where Clownie comes in on Taylor after beating our Tight End, Cooper had driven his assignment back a good 5 yards.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Cooper needs to work on staying on his feet. He is on the ground too often right now which is a big issue for offensive linemen.
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Anybody who has had a leg injury, like a broken leg or knee surgery knows that it takes a long time to get your strength back in the leg and as a result your balance. When I read reports saying he's not as strong and his balance is not good I think why would that surprise anybody after he missed last year with a broken leg?
He will get better week over week, the knee is a bit scary because we didn't really know he had a knee issue but then he wouldn't be the first guy to get a sympatetic injury while rehabbing his first injury. Favor one thing limping leads to something else.
RugbyMuffin
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Cooper looked bad this weekend.
Make all the excuses you want, but that is not the player I watched last year at this time.
He stuck out like a sore thumb in more than just 4 plays for me.
It was hard not to see how bad he did look. Our starting interior line is officially a concern till proven otherwise.
That being said? Rather have problems at guard than tackle, and the group of tackles played well this weekend.
Make all the excuses you want, but that is not the player I watched last year at this time.
He stuck out like a sore thumb in more than just 4 plays for me.
It was hard not to see how bad he did look. Our starting interior line is officially a concern till proven otherwise.
That being said? Rather have problems at guard than tackle, and the group of tackles played well this weekend.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
Agreed. I'm not saying he isn't on his way back or that he won't get back. My point is that when you are hearing negative reports and seeing him struggle in games, this is why he is getting criticism. Two things get you in "trouble" as an offensive lineman in the NFL, mental errors and being on the ground. Right now, Cooper is struggling a bit with both of these from reports.
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My concern on him will be if in week 3 he's still getting knocked down regularly and missing blocks. Right now he looks like a guy who's just getting his sea legs back, which is understandable to me.
He's a young guy he doesn't have years of experience to fall back on while he gets his strength back.
If in 2 weeks he's still struggling this much I'll be much more concerned. He's a rookie in many respects, by midseason if he's healthy I think he'll be the least of our concerns. I do think it illustrates how good it was to go out and get Veldheer though, at least we don't have a struggling young LG playing next to an overmatched LT, at least he doesn't have to worry too much about the guy playing on his left.
He's a young guy he doesn't have years of experience to fall back on while he gets his strength back.
If in 2 weeks he's still struggling this much I'll be much more concerned. He's a rookie in many respects, by midseason if he's healthy I think he'll be the least of our concerns. I do think it illustrates how good it was to go out and get Veldheer though, at least we don't have a struggling young LG playing next to an overmatched LT, at least he doesn't have to worry too much about the guy playing on his left.
It was nice not having to be concerned about the left tackle.
Larsen was playing center and I'm not sure that had anything to do with the way the calls were made on the line.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
The coaches' film on Saturday's game isn't up on NFL.com yet. If it comes up tomorrow and I'm not super-busy, I'll see if I can put together a Coaches Room on Cooper's snaps.
One departure between what I saw and what Urban mentioned was on the Housler reception. Cooper didn't have a man-up blocking assignment, and still managed to get turned 180 degrees around without really engaging with anyone until he went to the ground as Palmer was releasing the football.
Did that have an effect on the play? No. Are the coaches going to give him a good grade on the play? Also no.
One departure between what I saw and what Urban mentioned was on the Housler reception. Cooper didn't have a man-up blocking assignment, and still managed to get turned 180 degrees around without really engaging with anyone until he went to the ground as Palmer was releasing the football.
Did that have an effect on the play? No. Are the coaches going to give him a good grade on the play? Also no.
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
So, while the coaching film isn't available yet, neither is NFL.com allowing me to seamlessly select plays from the sequence and skip over defensive possessions. I watched the three opening drives focusing on Cooper as much as I could with the camera on the opposite side of the field from him.
Cooper right now is really struggling to hold up against the bull rush. It'll be interesting to see if he can adjust in the passing game. As others have said, it seems like his core just isn't strong enough yet to anchor and show the flexibility he did last year (combined with his strength).
The play after he got rolled up on in the red zone by Kulabafi, he ended up on the ground again and Darren Fells (nearly?) stepped on him. If Cooper's looking to get injured again, going to the ground four times in three series is an excellent way to do so.
Cooper did a good job getting to the second level and finding a linebacker to put a body on on the play that Clowney snuffed out. If our system is to get tight ends blocking the best pass rushers in football one-on-one, I don't think it's going to matter who our left guard is.
I was watching Cooper, but Watford stood out in the second unit. He's got great, great size, but I didn't see him pull. He looks like a monster out there.
Cooper right now is really struggling to hold up against the bull rush. It'll be interesting to see if he can adjust in the passing game. As others have said, it seems like his core just isn't strong enough yet to anchor and show the flexibility he did last year (combined with his strength).
The play after he got rolled up on in the red zone by Kulabafi, he ended up on the ground again and Darren Fells (nearly?) stepped on him. If Cooper's looking to get injured again, going to the ground four times in three series is an excellent way to do so.
Cooper did a good job getting to the second level and finding a linebacker to put a body on on the play that Clowney snuffed out. If our system is to get tight ends blocking the best pass rushers in football one-on-one, I don't think it's going to matter who our left guard is.
I was watching Cooper, but Watford stood out in the second unit. He's got great, great size, but I didn't see him pull. He looks like a monster out there.
Chopper0080
2021 - Prove It
It is why it's tough for me to see Fanaika beating him out due to anything other than mental errors which Watford has been reported as correcting. A bunch of "ifs" but IF Cooper gets back to where he was, and IF Watford continues to develop, and IF Massie takes a step, we could be looking at one of the best, young offensive lines in the league next year. Coach em up.
Thanks for the info K9. I would like to see your take on the coaches film.
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
Well - he missed practice today and will be out for a few days. Walking around in a boot. Apparently has an issue with a "toe"... Uggghhh....
Well - he missed practice today and will be out for a few days. Walking around in a boot. Apparently has an issue with a "toe"... Uggghhh....
Ugh indeed.
SoCal Cardfan
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Not ready to pass judgement on Cooper just yet.. But it does seem like our streak of drafting average to terrible OL in the first round will remain unbroken.
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