Do you not understand English? I'm incredulous that anyone believes Bender could guard Griffin.
Josh Jackson
- Thread starter Praxis
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Do you not understand English? I'm incredulous that anyone believes Bender could guard Griffin.
Chaplin
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Bender has PROVEN to be our best big defender. If you think Josh Jackson has a better chance of guarding Griffin than Bender, you haven't been watching the Suns this year.
His defense is only slightly better than his atrocious offense. There's no way this team can win with him guarding players like Griffin on a nightly basis. He is a bust-in-progress and anyone who says otherwise is in denial.
Phrazbit
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My only takeaway from this entire conversation is that you haven't watched any of their games this year.
Jackson has played a ton, Jackson can guard wings, not bigs, Bender is, without question, our best big man defender so far this year.
Bender is currently #345 in defensive rating amongst players averaging more than 15 min/game this season. Griffin, also a bad defender, is #201.
Jackson is #290.
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Phrazbit
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Wonderful, and you clearly haven't watched them play.
JCSunsfan
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Wow. Some arguments are are just a waste of breath. (agreeing with you BTW).
I've watched both play. Bender is the stretch PF version of Len and will be playing on a minimum contract or go back to Europe after his rookie deal is up. Jackson has shown flashes early on, but as I said in the OP, I'm far from sold on him. You can disagree; that's fine with me.
JCSunsfan
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Well, alrighty then. Because you said so, I guess that is how it is. All the rest of us must be watching the wrong games.
elindholm
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I haven't watched all of the games, but every time I've seen Bender, he looks positively dreadful on both ends of the court. I cannot for the life of me figure out what this board sees in him, other than that's he's a tall white guy who's relatively mobile.
Now, is he a worse defender than Len, Chriss, or Jackson? I haven't thought carefully about that. Maybe it's true that he's the team's "best big-man defender," but, if so, that's only because the bar is set very low.
Now, is he a worse defender than Len, Chriss, or Jackson? I haven't thought carefully about that. Maybe it's true that he's the team's "best big-man defender," but, if so, that's only because the bar is set very low.
CardsSunsDbacks
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Ahh the old defensive rating argument. Defensive rating is directly affected by your teammates. Therefore being one of the worst defensive teams it is only natural that he won’t have a good defensive rating. Though he does have one of the best ratings on the team.
Chaplin
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Again, you don't appear to be qualified to make these assessments. Advanced statistics, whether you believe in them or not, support our hypothesis.
elindholm
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I can only assume that this is satire.
Chaplin
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Of course you do. Believe it or not, some people actually like the Phoenix Suns and don't take every opportunity to make them worse than they are.
I said you are free to disagree. It doesn't bother me at all. Jackson was thought to be able to guard multiple positions coming out of college and has better defensive stats to date, but it's okay if some of you have a different take. Other than being a tall guy who "tries hard," I'm not sure what makes Bender better suited to guarding guys like Blake Griffin.
CardsSunsDbacks
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He has very good lateral quickness, great length, has very good defensive instincts and has more weight right now than Jackson. That is why he is better suited to guard a guy like Griffin than Jackson. Maybe in a year or 2 that won’t be the case, but right now it is.
Yeah, basically a tall guy who tries hard. FYI, Bender's NBA comparison on Draft Express* is Hedo Turkoglu. Very apt, considering Hedo was awful defensively and sucked with the Suns.
*NBADraft.net, actually
Errntknght
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The game last night gave a good example of why you shouldn't rush to judgement on these young guys: D'Angelo Russell. Most all of us in here were laughing at the Lakers for taking him at number 2 - for two years - not a bust but far from worthy of a #2. Nets won last night because he was picking us apart with relative ease.
I'll be the first to admit that the spotlight that goes with Lakers and the expectations they had of him could well have been part of the problem - I rather think they were. Our guys aren't under the pressure he was but they were pretty high picks for the world's best basketball league so there is a good level of pressure just from that. It takes time to adjust to it and some guys never do. NBA washouts are gobbled up by lesser leagues all around the world for a reason.
I would say that what makes drafting so difficult it that it's virtually impossible to judge how the players will react to stepping up to the biggest stage. And I think the details of the situation they find themselves in play a big role in their early success. John Collins and Markkanen (who someone brought up early in this thread) went to two of the weakest teams in the league at present which probably kept the pressure lower on them than most - of course if they'd gone to good teams we wouldn't be talking about them because they wouldn't be playing much. But it is quite clear that they are coping well with the level of pressure they found.
Those two happened to be my favorite players in the draft because I wanted us to pick a front court player who could score - my opinion of our biggest need. If I'd been the GM I might have had the 'cajones' to take Markkanen at #4 but Collins, no chance. But I might have traded the #4 for #10 and #20 - and missed them both!
I'll be the first to admit that the spotlight that goes with Lakers and the expectations they had of him could well have been part of the problem - I rather think they were. Our guys aren't under the pressure he was but they were pretty high picks for the world's best basketball league so there is a good level of pressure just from that. It takes time to adjust to it and some guys never do. NBA washouts are gobbled up by lesser leagues all around the world for a reason.
I would say that what makes drafting so difficult it that it's virtually impossible to judge how the players will react to stepping up to the biggest stage. And I think the details of the situation they find themselves in play a big role in their early success. John Collins and Markkanen (who someone brought up early in this thread) went to two of the weakest teams in the league at present which probably kept the pressure lower on them than most - of course if they'd gone to good teams we wouldn't be talking about them because they wouldn't be playing much. But it is quite clear that they are coping well with the level of pressure they found.
Those two happened to be my favorite players in the draft because I wanted us to pick a front court player who could score - my opinion of our biggest need. If I'd been the GM I might have had the 'cajones' to take Markkanen at #4 but Collins, no chance. But I might have traded the #4 for #10 and #20 - and missed them both!
CardsSunsDbacks
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How you get “a big guy who tries hard” from what I just said is ridiculous. I don’t like to throw this sentiment around lightly, but I am starting to feel like you are just trolling.
JCSunsfan
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Chap. I think you mean to be disagreeing with Praxis, not ELind.
AZCrazy
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It takes a special kind of ******* to call a 19 year old a bust, let alone two of them.
You said Bender has:
Very good lateral quickness
Great length
Very good defensive instincts
More weight than Jackson
As a 7 footer he is of course longer than Jackson. However, he is only 25 lbs heavier and lacks desirable strength. His quickness is good for his size, but 6'7'' to 6'10'' PFs have had no problem scoring on him. And his defensive instincts are not "very good" relative to Jackson, as evidenced by all defensive metrics besides blocks.
In total, he is a tall guy who tries hard but comes up short. Could he get stronger and become a defensive dynamo? Perhaps, but I remain doubtful. He should really work on his dreadful offense because I don't think we drafted him #4 overall to be a defensive specialist.
Crazy guy says what?
Chaplin
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Huh? No, I disagree with both of them.
JCSunsfan
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OK. SorryHuh? No, I disagree with both of them.
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