No but Suns fans whiffed on Tatum.
Josh Jackson
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No but Suns fans whiffed on Tatum.
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How can you say the Suns whiffed on Tatum when the Celtic's drafted him before the Suns?
However, the Suns did whiff on some good players like Markkanen.
I said the Suns fans whiffed on Tatum, not the Suns.
Markkannen has quickly leveled off from his hot start but yeah I rated him, just not as a top 4 pick.
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Fair enough. Who did you like at # 4 in the 2017 draft?
Also I'd like to see your top 12 in this draft if you have compiled one or at least the players you like best in this range. I understand you like Young at #12.
1. Doncic/Ayton/Bagley
4. Porter/Young
6. Bridges/Bridges/Bamba/Sexton/
10. Jackson, McCoy, Knox, Duval, Carter
these are my early tiers and the bolded ones are picks I would feel good about.
I also like Allonzo Trier, Grayson Allen with our own 2nd rounder
Of course but there is no way that Trae Young will be available at 12.
4. Porter/Young
6. Bridges/Bridges/Bamba/Sexton/
10. Jackson, McCoy, Knox, Duval, Carter
these are my early tiers and the bolded ones are picks I would feel good about.
I also like Allonzo Trier, Grayson Allen with our own 2nd rounder
Of course but there is no way that Trae Young will be available at 12.
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When you get an opportunity you might want to put put your draft projections on the
"2017-2018 Draft Prospects watch" thread or perhaps the "2018 NBA Draft" thread.
It will be interesting to come back to it.
CardsSunsDbacks
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I hope we can remain patient with Jackson. Looking at rookie stats for a lot of other all star level wings should soften the immediate expectations for Jackson. Just look at the rookie numbers for the likes of DeRozan, George, Butler, Green, Giannis, Hayward and Leonard. None of which were looking very good at that point.
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I think the Suns will remain patient with Jackson. He has aggressiveness, athleticism and a strong work ethic going for him. However, he needs to improve his shooting before he can take the next step.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jacksjo02.html
JCSunsfan
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Young players do this. They come out all all aggressive, but without the direction or skills, they then fail and start to pull back into their shells and disappear. This is what Chriss seems to be doing. It takes a special player to keep going and truly learn through the process.
Here's a more specific look at a comp that supports your point.
Rookie year:
Scottie Pippen vs. Josh Jackson
Min/G: 21 vs 22
FG%: 47 vs 43
3FG%: 17 vs 23
FT%: 57 vs 56
Pts/G: 7.9 vs 8.9
Rb/G: 3.8 vs 3.5
Ast/G: 2.1 vs 1.1
St/G: 1.2 vs 1.1
Age: 22 vs 20
Suns fans just need to be patient and let the kid prove his metal. Maybe he can end up like Pippen or maybe not, but bemoaning the draft pick after 30 games is exceedingly premature. And to be quite frank, if you can't see the talent shining through in these last 30 games, then you don't have an eye for talent.
Jackson has shown flashes and it's too early to give up on him, for sure. I can understand the comparisons to Tatum because they're both SF's who were selected one after the other but we didn't have a choice so talking up Tatum and talking down Jackson like it's the Suns fault we have Jackson is foolish. He wasn't going to be Lebron or Carmelo coming into this league, NBA ready and scoring at will. He's a defender first, he's not even a 3 & D player. He's one of the top perimeter defenders that has entered the league in years and he has offensive potential. If he ends up like Michael Kidd-Gilchrest then I'll be annoyed just like everyone else but he's already shown more potential on offense than MKG has in his 5-6 years in the league. He plays hard every night and has the right attitude. He's not moping around like Chriss or getting completely lost for long stretches like Len.
This is Jackson compared to Kawhi during their rookie years through 30 games a piece, both 20 years old during their rookie years...
Min/G: 23 vs 22
FG - 45% vs 43
3 PT - 36% vs 23
FT% - 63 vs 56
Pts/G: 6.8 vs 8.9
Rb/G: 4.8 vs 3.5
Ast/G: 0.9 vs 1.1
St/G: 1.2 vs 1.1
His shooting is worse but the rest is pretty similar and Jackson doesn't have the best coach in the NBA helping him out, in fact Jackson had to deal with a head coaching change 3 games into his career, which is a lot for a rookie to deal with who is getting used to the NBA. Not saying he'll be the next Kawhi, but it's comparison of how much the first 30 games of someone's career show towards who they'll be 3-4-5 years down the road.
This is Jackson compared to Kawhi during their rookie years through 30 games a piece, both 20 years old during their rookie years...
Min/G: 23 vs 22
FG - 45% vs 43
3 PT - 36% vs 23
FT% - 63 vs 56
Pts/G: 6.8 vs 8.9
Rb/G: 4.8 vs 3.5
Ast/G: 0.9 vs 1.1
St/G: 1.2 vs 1.1
His shooting is worse but the rest is pretty similar and Jackson doesn't have the best coach in the NBA helping him out, in fact Jackson had to deal with a head coaching change 3 games into his career, which is a lot for a rookie to deal with who is getting used to the NBA. Not saying he'll be the next Kawhi, but it's comparison of how much the first 30 games of someone's career show towards who they'll be 3-4-5 years down the road.
Phrazbit
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Jackson has a ton of skill, his biggest problem is he is playing too fast. Rushing everything, with experience the game should slow down for him.
When young guys bum me out it is because they're invisible, on the court but you wouldn't know it. That is certainly not the case with Jackson, the kid is a pin ball, all over the place, but borderline out of control. He just needs to settle down and let the opportunities come to him.
When young guys bum me out it is because they're invisible, on the court but you wouldn't know it. That is certainly not the case with Jackson, the kid is a pin ball, all over the place, but borderline out of control. He just needs to settle down and let the opportunities come to him.
JCSunsfan
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Exactly this. He knows he is athletically dominating and he tries to dominate every moment. He needs to be selective and under control. I think he will get that.
Anyone else notice that the game is slowing down for Josh? I'm not just talking about shooting and rebounding. I mean he's got much better body control, taking better shots, maintaining the dribble through traffic, has his head up looking for the next man, pushing the ball in the open court, and overall his energy is positive. Since he got his DNP CD against Atlanta he's been playing much better.
People are going to hone in on his 17 points and 10 rebounds tonight against OKC. But I'm most impressed with his 5 assists and 0 turnovers. He's far more under control than he had been previously.
Tonight we saw a glimpse of the Pippen comparisons.
People are going to hone in on his 17 points and 10 rebounds tonight against OKC. But I'm most impressed with his 5 assists and 0 turnovers. He's far more under control than he had been previously.
Tonight we saw a glimpse of the Pippen comparisons.
There were a few plays on defense where he normally would have gotten foul calls also. I noticed he wasn't up on his players as hard but was still effective for the most part. Not sure if it was scouting or a change in him but he wasn't biting as hard on pump fakes or actual shots that were taken. He was contesting them but staying in position a bit more rather than extending to the point where the shooter could jump into him and get an easy foul call.
Good article from Scott Bordow about Jackson responding well to Triano's criticism of him. He's got a bright future. Unlike Chriss or Bender I think Jackson will be a solid rotation as a 3 & D wing player at the least but he has the drive and the talent to be much more than that. One thing that worries me about Bender and Chriss is I haven't heard the same sort of passion or desire from them and when they're off they don't make much of an impact at all. Jackson meanwhile has all of the tools to be an elite perimeter defender and does a good job on that end when he's not contributing offensively.
https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...-well-jay-trianos-harsh-criticism/1023021001/
https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...-well-jay-trianos-harsh-criticism/1023021001/
AsUpRoDiGy
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Whenever I watch Jackson...he's always 110% hustle. The game is starting to slow down for him, and the dude is just a freak athlete. Scary what he could be if he developed a good shot.
devilalum
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Name one player with a shot as ugly as his that became a really good shooter.
I think he’ll definitely get better but he’s never gonna be pure shooter.
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3rdside
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Suns_fan69
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Hard to find someone with a shot as bad as his but large rises in EFG do happen.
Victor Olidipo this year started with an EFG of .458 and is now .563
When Lebron came into the league he had a rough shot. The only thing is that no one cared because he did EVERYTHING else at such an amazing level. He committed hours and hours to honing his form and it paid huge dividends.
There are two major components to shooting: form and confidence. I agree that Josh's form needs work. But no one should question that dudes confidence.
This off season he needs to commit to keeping his 90 degree angle from the start to pre release. He starts the ball so dang low that he has to compensate on his upswing which leads to a wild swinging motion. He's actually not terrible at keeping the ball equidistant from the plane created by shoulder/knee/toe. (Alonzo for example is by far the worst at this). And he's actually quite fluid with his stroke. So he isn't totally awful, just partially.
His stroke can definitely be fixed, but he has to be humble to change and driven to succeed. We'll see if he has both.
devilalum
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With all that film he’s been watching he must be aware of how ugly his shot looks. Definitely not something you change mid season. Thing is you rarely see a player completely overhaul their shot like you described. Think Marion. He got better at shooting but he never really changed his horrible delivery.
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SirStefan32
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If he can hit 35% from three, I don't give a crap what his shot looks like, to be honest.
He'll be much more effective if he has a better release/consistent form (not to mention his FT percentage) because he also won't need as much space to get it off. It's a difficult thing to do. See Archie Goodwin.
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