Justin Upton is a huge disappointment!

[Chris_Sanders]

Why, because he had ONE monster game?

No, I feel it is rediculous because he leads the first place Diamondbacks in almost every catagory and he hasn't approached his potential.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

My 25/25/100/100 season isn't really a good projection.

The Diamondbacks are now 1/3 of the way through the season.

Upton and his "huge disappointment" is on pace to be the first 30/30 player since 2008. I look forward to several years of "disappointment".

 

[BC867]

#2. For the stat geeks that harp on his batting average:

(his rankings on the diamondbacks)

#2 in Runs
#1 in Hits
#1 in Home Runs
#2 (tied) in Doubles
#3 (tied) in RBIs
#1 in Total Bases
#3 in Walks
#1 in Stolen Bases

For a team that had three players rotating at 1B, two at 3B, a couple in LF and a solid hitter in a horrible slump (from which he has now emerged) at 2B, Upton's figures, as well as Young's, aren't quite as meaningful as they sound.

They were put in the lineup and left there day in and day out so, of course, they had a leg up on individual stats. Ironically, the players who have performed steadily, such as Roberts are still treated as subs.

The D'backs tried to manufacture All Stars in Upton and Young and they simply haven't performed up to those standards. It's a couple of Pitchers who are deserving of it.

 

[devilalum]

For a team that had three players rotating at 1B, two at 3B, a couple in LF and a solid hitter in a horrible slump (from which he has now emerged) at 2B, Upton's figures, as well as Young's, aren't quite as meaningful as they sound.

They were put in the lineup and left there day in and day out so, of course, they had a leg up on individual stats. Ironically, the players who have performed steadily, such as Roberts are still treated as subs.

The D'backs tried to manufacture All Stars in Upton and Young and they simply haven't performed up to those standards. It's a couple of Pitchers who are deserving of it.

Exactly, and we're not talking about some journeyman player here. We're talking about the guy that was taken #1 overall in a draft that included several players that are locks for the All Star game.

Look at his stats from 2009 just before he signed his big extension and tell me that last year and the start of 2011 haven't been a let down.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/u/uptonju01.shtml

Sure he's only 23 but shouldn't he be improving?

If he can play up to his ability for the remainder of the year the Dbacks are a lock to win the west.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

For a team that had three players rotating at 1B, two at 3B, a couple in LF and a solid hitter in a horrible slump (from which he has now emerged) at 2B, Upton's figures, as well as Young's, aren't quite as meaningful as they sound.

They were put in the lineup and left there day in and day out so, of course, they had a leg up on individual stats. Ironically, the players who have performed steadily, such as Roberts are still treated as subs.

The D'backs tried to manufacture All Stars in Upton and Young and they simply haven't performed up to those standards. It's a couple of Pitchers who are deserving of it.

Which means he is only more important to the team as he provides stability and his production is not replacable.

 

[Gee!]

I think Im somewhere between Sanders and devilalum.. I dont think Upton is a disappointment but I also dont think he is anywhere near where he could be.. What I am looking for the most is consistancy.. And with Upton only being 23, I think we'll have a better scope for where he will be in 2 years.. Thats when I'll start passing judgement.. I hope Baylor can get Upton better at the plate consistantly..

 

[Bert]

I thought had a disappointing start to this season because I was really hoping he would rebound from last year quicker than he did. As well as we've been playing the past 3 weeks it was just hard not to imagine how good we'd be if Upton would start playing like Upton. Last night illustrated the point by showing exactly how GOOD we WILL be if he keeps playing at a high level.

Keep it Up Justin!

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I think Im somewhere between Sanders and devilalum.. I dont think Upton is a disappointment but I also dont think he is anywhere near where he could be...

We actually agree. Not a disappointment. Plenty of room to get better.

 

[azsportsfan01]

I watch almost every game and Upton makes a lot of bad plays. I would agree that he has the physical attributes necessary to be a great fielder but he seems to be lacking some basic fundamental skills and mental focus.

Eyes can lie. That is why people think Derek Jeter is such a great fielder. He has little to no range so the balls he gets to are the easy ones for everyone. The tough plays other guys make become hits because Jeter can't get to them but his fielding looks sparkling since he don't make many errors.

 

[azsportsfan01]

Not really. If Upton hustled every play, he would rank 1st in all of those categories. It can't measure plays he made that SHOULD have been better plays because of lazy throws or not hustling to get under balls. Upton has the kind of arm NO ONE should be able to tag on him on a mid-range fly ball, not even second to third, but he doesn't always get in the best position to throw.

Really? I think everyone agrees Ryan Roberts hustles all the time yet he is only .6 UZR. That is good enough for 25th out of everyone who has played 3rd base in the NL this season. What looks like hustle for some is the fact they are trying to make up for a lack of talent.

Guys like Upton make things look easy. He never looks like he is running very fast yet he is blazing the trail. He is like Drew in that department. People always used to be on Drew for 'not caring' because he had a very smooth style.

 

[azsportsfan01]

There are too many posts about Upton striking out too much to quote them all. Not everyone can succeed by trading in their power for more contact. Look at the all time list of strikeouts in MLB history. Some of these names should stand out to you:
1. Reggie Jackson
2. Jim Thome
3. Sammy Sosa
4. Andres Galarraga
5. Jose Canseco
6. Willie Stargell
7. Mike Schmidt
8. Fred McGriff
9. Tony Perez
10. Mike Cameron
11. Alex Rodriguez
12. Dave Kingman
13. Manny Ramirez
14. Ken Griffey Jr

That is 5 hall of famers and a couple of guys who aren't eligible but will be in the hall in a few years. There are also a couple of cheaters but that is a different topic for a different time.

These guys all struck out a ton but they had the power to make up for it. Why try to change someone when it very well may not work? Hell all you have to do is look to Baltimore at our old third baseman to see how it works. He has tried to shorten his swing this year to make more contact. Instead he still has a .200 batting average and has lost what made him valuable in the first place.

Having a guy who strikes out isn't the worst thing in the world. Having a lineup filled with them is, which is what we saw last season. Upton may never be a guy to hit .300 for the season but if he can go .270 with 30/100 then that is well worth the strikeouts. And for all the crap some of you guys have given him this season he is hitting .261 with 10/27 which means he is right there with Reggie Jackson and Mike Schmidt for an usual season. (.262 32/98 and .267 37/107 respectively.)

 

[devilalum]

There are too many posts about Upton striking out too much to quote them all. Not everyone can succeed by trading in their power for more contact. Look at the all time list of strikeouts in MLB history. Some of these names should stand out to you:
1. Reggie Jackson
2. Jim Thome
3. Sammy Sosa
4. Andres Galarraga
5. Jose Canseco
6. Willie Stargell
7. Mike Schmidt
8. Fred McGriff
9. Tony Perez
10. Mike Cameron
11. Alex Rodriguez
12. Dave Kingman
13. Manny Ramirez
14. Ken Griffey Jr

That is 5 hall of famers and a couple of guys who aren't eligible but will be in the hall in a few years. There are also a couple of cheaters but that is a different topic for a different time.

These guys all struck out a ton but they had the power to make up for it. Why try to change someone when it very well may not work? Hell all you have to do is look to Baltimore at our old third baseman to see how it works. He has tried to shorten his swing this year to make more contact. Instead he still has a .200 batting average and has lost what made him valuable in the first place.

Having a guy who strikes out isn't the worst thing in the world. Having a lineup filled with them is, which is what we saw last season. Upton may never be a guy to hit .300 for the season but if he can go .270 with 30/100 then that is well worth the strikeouts. And for all the crap some of you guys have given him this season he is hitting .261 with 10/27 which means he is right there with Reggie Jackson and Mike Schmidt for an usual season. (.262 32/98 and .267 37/107 respectively.)

Upton hit .300 in 2009?

Most of the guys on your list are stereotypical sluggers and not necessarily all around great players. I personally think Upton has the natural ability to a triple crown type of player if he can just grow up.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I'm disappointed he hasn't become a franchise player yet but give him time.

I bet before the end of the season he carries us offensively over a 25-30 game stretch. Or at least I hope so.

Why, because he had ONE monster game?

And by the way, you have to be able to field to be a 5 tool player.

Even if Upton hits .400 for the rest of the season that won't change the fact that he was disappointing from the beginning of last year until today.

But it WOULD make it easy to forget.

You'll notice the first post is before yesterdays game.

All yesterdays game was is validation that patience is the course for young and reasonably signed Justin Upton for the forseeable future.

Not to make this a young vs old school type thing, but it seems to me the people trying to ride Upton out on a rail are because they feel he doesn't fit some mythical prototype baseball player of yesteryear.

I'll say it again. Uptons still learning. And Gibson is the best teacher he could have at this point. No matter what, you don't evaluate trading him until AT LEAST the end of this season.

And even then I think before this years all wrapped up he'll have made this thread as ridiculous as some of the previous knee jerk reactions we have seen in the past.

 

[Gaddabout]

Really? I think everyone agrees Ryan Roberts hustles all the time yet he is only .6 UZR. That is good enough for 25th out of everyone who has played 3rd base in the NL this season. What looks like hustle for some is the fact they are trying to make up for a lack of talent.

Guys like Upton make things look easy. He never looks like he is running very fast yet he is blazing the trail. He is like Drew in that department. People always used to be on Drew for 'not caring' because he had a very smooth style.

No, not really. No duh Roberts hustles. He has to to make a normal play. Perhaps Upton just has no instincts to play outfield, but he is late on balls that should be cans o' corn for him. It's why he already has six errors this season -- which, by the way, ranks him last among everyday right fielders in MLB.

 

[AZ Native]

I think there are many of us who can't stand watching a man that has so much talent and potential throw it away by being a "me" player, lacking basic baseball fundamentals and not hustling. Having basic baseball fundamental skills is not mythical.

I do agree that Gibson is the one guy who may get it done. That is what we are all hoping for.

 

[Catfish]

I think that Monday's game is a testament to what Upton has to offer this team. I said in another thread that it is waaay to early to be throwing anybody under the bus. After Monday's game, Upton talked about his TEAM and about their goals. Maybe Gibby is getting into his head. If so, we may have just seen what he can add to the mix on a more regular basis. Maybe he is just bowing to peer pressure, because its much more fun going with the flow than against it in these things. Either way, Monday's results were spectacular, and his words afterward were very encouraging. I said that Gibby would know if and when it is time to remove him from the locker room if he became a cancer. Right now, that seems to be a moot point. At least for now, if Upton is getting caught up in the excitement, then good things should be happening.

 

[azsportsfan01]

I think that Monday's game is a testament to what Upton has to offer this team. I said in another thread that it is waaay to early to be throwing anybody under the bus. After Monday's game, Upton talked about his TEAM and about their goals. Maybe Gibby is getting into his head. If so, we may have just seen what he can add to the mix on a more regular basis. Maybe he is just bowing to peer pressure, because its much more fun going with the flow than against it in these things. Either way, Monday's results were spectacular, and his words afterward were very encouraging. I said that Gibby would know if and when it is time to remove him from the locker room if he became a cancer. Right now, that seems to be a moot point. At least for now, if Upton is getting caught up in the excitement, then good things should be happening.

Here is the thing, he has always talked about the team. Most of these claims in this thread are opinions and rumors.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

he's looked absolutely fantastic in this series so far..........

 

[Catfish]

Here is the thing, he has always talked about the team. Most of these claims in this thread are opinions and rumors.

I would be the first one on your band wagon with one exception. The fans know when someone is dogging it or playing hard. I thought it spoke volumes that when Upton hit his tape-measure home run, and Grace and Sutton were urging the fans to give a curtain call to Upton, the fans were not buying it. Virtually no one was calling for him to take a bow or tip his cap. I think the fans want to see him produce more often-----to act like he cares more often, (cares about the team, not just himself). I think they would like to see him fight off some tough pitches and hang in there to get a single when there is a runner on third, instead of always swinging for the fence. He might be buying into it, but the fans want to see more right now. More work for the team and less about I-----Upton. I don't think I am wrong about that.

 

[azsportsfan01]

I would be the first one on your band wagon with one exception. The fans know when someone is dogging it or playing hard. I thought it spoke volumes that when Upton hit his tape-measure home run, and Grace and Sutton were urging the fans to give a curtain call to Upton, the fans were not buying it. Virtually no one was calling for him to take a bow or tip his cap. I think the fans want to see him produce more often-----to act like he cares more often, (cares about the team, not just himself). I think they would like to see him fight off some tough pitches and hang in there to get a single when there is a runner on third, instead of always swinging for the fence. He might be buying into it, but the fans want to see more right now. More work for the team and less about I-----Upton. I don't think I am wrong about that.

Everyone knows fans in Arizona are not the most informed group of people.

 

[AZ Native]

Everyone knows fans in Arizona are not the most informed group of people.

You are painting with a very wide brush here. There are many here in Arizona who are very knowledgeable in baseball and resent your unfounded claims to the contrary. EVERYONE KNOWS? Rubbish.

 

[azsportsfan01]

You are painting with a very wide brush here. There are many here in Arizona who are very knowledgeable in baseball and resent your unfounded claims to the contrary. EVERYONE KNOWS? Rubbish.

I'm born and raised in Arizona but it is a well known fact. Obviously every place has exceptions to the rule (and I would imagine most people on this board are those exceptions) but the large portion of the fan base do not know how to act at a baseball game.

 

[AZ Native]

I'm born and raised in Arizona but it is a well known fact. Obviously every place has exceptions to the rule (and I would imagine most people on this board are those exceptions) but the large portion of the fan base do not know how to act at a baseball game.

I talked football with the Steelers fans at our Super Bowl. I can talk baseball with anyone, including the self appointed St Louis Cardinals fans. I resent the fact that you have this "everyone knows" attitude, especially with your name of azsportsfan01. Don't buy into that crap they are feeding you.

 

[BC867]

Everyone knows fans in Arizona are not the most informed group of people.

Poppycock. For you to speak for everyone. And for you to come to that conclusion.

If you had continued, "... fans in Arizona are not the most informed group of people . . . about Phoenix rosters.", you'd have a legitimate point.

With the influx of people from Chicago, L.A., etc., over the past thirty years, of course many of them have attended games to see their first loves.

That is a natural social phenomenon for a city which grew from being a large town to a major metropolitan area in a relatively short time.

One by one, year by year, the new fans provided revenue and, hopefully, warmed to our hometown teams.

To attribute a generalization about fans in attendance at one game not rewarding a player, quite yet, who has dogged it for years, because he had one good night does indeed reflect an "informed group of people", as opposed to letting one good game change their opinion.

When Upton shows that he's moved beyond trying to hit every ball high into the air or stop showboating in RF, for real, the fans will begin to show appreciation. I would hardly call them uninformed. They know what's going on.

 

[Gaddabout]

Upton's ground out to second to bring in Kelly Johnson was very encouraging. Hit the ball on the ground to the opposite field with a man on 3rd -- excellent productive out and just good at-bat. Very encouraging.