Kerr on other roster moves

[fordronken]

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/96060

The Suns are expected to carry 13 players, leaving one spot unresolved. Kerr said he believes Phoenix is one of two teams still in the running for 6-foot-11 veteran P.J. Brown, who has yet to decide if he wants to continue playing at age 38.

Kerr said the Suns are willing to wait until training camp or even into the regular season if Brown needs that much time to make his decision. But if Brown’s timetable drags on another few weeks, the team would likely cover itself by signing another player to a non-guaranteed, one-year deal.

“I told P.J. that from our end, he could feel free to take his time and if he told us in October or even November that he wanted to come back, we’d be here for him,” Kerr said. “Sometimes, retirement sounds like a great idea in the summer, but not such a good idea when the games start.”

Kerr said any player the Suns signed other than Brown would likely be a “a situational player strictly for certain matchups” and not a regular rotation player — leaving Amaré Stoudemire, Shawn Marion and Boris Diaw as the only center/power forward options. Seldom-used Sean Marks is also on the roster.

 

[fordronken]

It sounds like it's time to realize that, other than something really minor, this is the team we've got.

We NEED Strawberry, Banks, Marks or Tucker to become rotation players this season. Two of those would be amazing. The two guys I like the most (not in relation to the rotation, but just as players) are Strawberry and Tucker, but realistically, it could be any two. I'd be pretty happy if Tucker and Marks both logged 10-15 minutes a game.

 

[elindholm]

It sounds like it's time to realize that, other than something really minor, this is the team we've got.

No, no, according to dozens of other posts after Thomas was sold, we're replacing him with another competent big, just plucking one from the closest available tree. Haven't you been reading?

 

[schutd]

No, no, according to dozens of other posts after Thomas was sold, we're replacing him with another competent big, just plucking one from the closest available tree. Haven't you been reading?

Youre harboring a lot of resentment, E. Have you been going to BC self help seminars?!?!?! Heh.

 

[elindholm]

Youre harboring a lot of resentment, E.

Guilty as charged. After almost 30 years of being a diehard fan, I feel betrayed.

 

[sunsfn]

I can not believe that this team is going to wait until the season starts to sign Brown.
They need to sign another big and have him here for training camp so he can contribute when the season starts.
No, I am not believing that Marks will play!!

Skinner is available but not sure the cost, and they could sign Ely but that is probably more money. Ely does not have the experience that Brown and Skinner have, but is more of an offensive threat.

This team is very close to winning it all, and if they are not careful they will lose their opportunity.

 

[cepstrum]

I feel betrayed.

I second that. This offseason has been a slap to the face as far as fans are concerned. Every single move (except maybe grant hill) has been to maximize profit rather than to make the team better. As it stands, this team is not a serious contender.

 

[azirish]

None of this is new. If anything, the article reinforces what we've known all along:

1. The Suns primary focus is to get PJ Brown.

2. PJ wants more money than the Suns are offering.

3. No one is willing to offer what PJ is asking (apparently all he's getting are vet minimum offers)

4. The Suns are probably offering a bit more than an vet minimum, but not close to what PJ wants.

5. PJ's threat to retire is real, but is far from 100% since he has his agent beating the bushes for offers.

6. The Suns are convinced that even if PJ retires, he will change his mind as they get closer to November.

7. The Suns are not convinced that other options like Skinner would be much better than a low level role player.

8. The Suns are going to pretend they are not desperate for PJ and can live without him to avoid paying what he's asking.

Has any of this changed over the past month and half? About the only thing that has changed is that it is obvious that nobody is willing to pay what PJ wants.

IMHO, bottom line is the Suns are the only team willing to pay over vet minimum for PJ and PJ is the only player the Suns are going after. Each side is waiting to see who will blink first.

This is a hugely frustrating process because there is a lot at stake. I'm inclined to let it play out without criticizing the Suns negotiating strategy until it is clear it has not worked.

 

[BC867]

Youre harboring a lot of resentment, E. Have you been going to BC self help seminars?!?!?! Heh.

Guilty as charged. After almost 30 years of being a diehard fan, I feel betrayed.

It's the Ghost of Alvan Adams syndrome.

The Oklahoma Kid was Rookie of the Year with the Suns (joined his college coach, JohnMacLeod, coach of the Suns) during their Cinderella season, making the finals with the Celtics.

The Suns have been in just one additional Championship series in the 30+ plus years that have followed.

Why? Because Adams was a 212 lb. Center. And, although Adams never matched the performance of his rookie season, Suns management has been convinced ever since that one 240+ pounder in the lineup is enough.

Making the finals with a lightweight Center was the worst thing that ever happened to the Suns. They overcame the drug scandals. They have not overcome this obsession with going small.

And it looks like, this coming season, here we go again.

As Eric said, Suns fan feel betrayed. At least, those of us who have rooted for our team for 30+ years.

 

[Cheesebeef]

IMHO, bottom line is the Suns are the only team willing to pay over vet minimum for PJ and PJ is the only player the Suns are going after.

i really don't know how you've convinced yourself of this bottom line that the Suns are the only team willing to pay over the vet minimum.

 

[fordronken]

None of this is new. If anything, the article reinforces what we've known all along:

1. The Suns primary focus is to get PJ Brown.

2. PJ wants more money than the Suns are offering.

3. No one is willing to offer what PJ is asking (apparently all he's getting are vet minimum offers)

4. The Suns are probably offering a bit more than an vet minimum, but not close to what PJ wants.

5. PJ's threat to retire is real, but is far from 100% since he has his agent beating the bushes for offers.

6. The Suns are convinced that even if PJ retires, he will change his mind as they get closer to November.

7. The Suns are not convinced that other options like Skinner would be much better than a low level role player.

8. The Suns are going to pretend they are not desperate for PJ and can live without him to avoid paying what he's asking.

Has any of this changed over the past month and half? About the only thing that has changed is that it is obvious that nobody is willing to pay what PJ wants.

IMHO, bottom line is the Suns are the only team willing to pay over vet minimum for PJ and PJ is the only player the Suns are going after. Each side is waiting to see who will blink first.

This is a hugely frustrating process because there is a lot at stake. I'm inclined to let it play out without criticizing the Suns negotiating strategy until it is clear it has not worked.

We have no idea whether money is the culprit here, or whether PJ is doing any positioning whatsoever. From all accounts I've heard, PJ is one of the classiest guys in the league who is a true family man. If you love spending time with your family, your kids are growing up and you have millions of dollars in the bank, it makes a lot of sense to not want to be travelling for most months out of the year and living part time in another city. He could just not be sure whether he thinks going for a championship is worth more to him than spending time with his family.

Granted, if he gets offered more money, it could make the decision easier, but I certainly don't think this is as much about money as people seem to like portraying it to be.

 

[Mulli]

The Alvan Adams concept is interesting. It seems that the pain of losing the Kareem coin flip led them to delude themselves into thinking that they were okay once they succeeded with Alvan.

 

[Cheesebeef]

BC, I really don't see it being a matter of "going small" as it is more going cheaper. We traded away James Jones, KT and 3 first round picks for nothing. I'm still trying to figure out how trading away two rotation guys, a good pick in a deep draf and only picking up a guy with a serious history of injuries helps fix the problems DA talked about with us needing to get tougher and deeper? It's really mind boggling to me. Everything this offseason has been about money. I guess I feel the same as Eric and have been in denial. I feel betrayed as well. There, I finally just came out and said it.

 

[Maligzar]

I'm going to assume for a moment that the interview I heard on the radio was honest and forthcoming. It was with PJ's agent.

Money isn't really as much an issue as PJ wanting to spend more time with his kids. It sounds like he is getting the pro-player blues "I'm missing my kids childhood".

So I'm thinking PJ hold out as long as he can, spends some quality time with the familiy here in the fall, and then makes his decision toward the end of the year.

I think that Kerr is sending a message to the fans: we're going back to what worked in 04/05.

I also think there are huge expectations on Amare AND Shawn.

 

[da_suns_fan]

I'm going to assume for a moment that the interview I heard on the radio was honest and forthcoming. It was with PJ's agent.

Money isn't really as much an issue as PJ wanting to spend more time with his kids. It sounds like he is getting the pro-player blues "I'm missing my kids childhood".

So I'm thinking PJ hold out as long as he can, spends some quality time with the familiy here in the fall, and then makes his decision toward the end of the year.

I think that Kerr is sending a message to the fans: we're going back to what worked in 04/05.

I also think there are huge expectations on Amare AND Shawn.

What WORKED in 04/05? They lost to the Spurs in 5 rather than in six? That was better?

At least the 05 team had Steven Hunter.

And how does Kerr plan on getting Joe Johnson back?

The spin from these idiots in mind boggling.

 

[fordronken]

What WORKED in 04/05? They lost to the Spurs in 5 rather than in six? That was better?

At least the 05 team had Steven Hunter.

And how does Kerr plan on getting Joe Johnson back?

The spin from these idiots in mind boggling.

You're getting mad at Kerr for something that somebody made up? And also, 04/05 was the season Amare was out. Joe Johnson and Hunter were already gone.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

You're getting mad at Kerr for something that somebody made up? And also, 04/05 was the season Amare was out. Joe Johnson and Hunter were already gone.

no, that's 05/06. this year, amare's first back, is the '06/07 year. 04/05 is the first nash/jj/Q/marion/amare year.

 

[fordronken]

no, that's 05/06. this year, amare's first back, is the '06/07 year. 04/05 is the first nash/jj/Q/marion/amare year.

Oops. Yeah. I read 04/05, but for some reason thought 05/06. I'm an idiot, but the rest of my point is valid.

 

[azirish]

We have no idea whether money is the culprit here, or whether PJ is doing any positioning whatsoever. From all accounts I've heard, PJ is one of the classiest guys in the league who is a true family man. If you love spending time with your family, your kids are growing up and you have millions of dollars in the bank, it makes a lot of sense to not want to be travelling for most months out of the year and living part time in another city. He could just not be sure whether he thinks going for a championship is worth more to him than spending time with his family.

Granted, if he gets offered more money, it could make the decision easier, but I certainly don't think this is as much about money as people seem to like portraying it to be.

I can't help thinking about the story of the philosopher who asked a woman if she would sleep with a man for a million dollars. She thinks about and then reluctantly agrees. Then asks if she would sleep with him for $100. "What kind of girl do you think I am". He replies, "We've established that, now we are simply dickering over price".

If PJ Brown is absolutely certain he wants to retire, he can either tell his agent to stop taking calls or announce publicly it's full MLE or nothing (close enough to absolutely positively)

NBA is a business. I don't hold it against PJ that he wants more money. Since most of what I'm tracking is from what his agent is saying, it may very well be that he's leaning harder toward retirement and it's all his agent that keeps this going. IMHO, if he was dead set on retirement, I think he'd tell his agent to cool it.

Equally, I think his thoughts of retirement are real. He doesn't need the money and the grind of an NBA season is pretty rough. He'lln down more money for one year most of us will make in a lifetime, so I'm sure he'd be happy to retire if he doesn't get what he wants.

Why do I think the rest are not offering more than vet minimum? Go back and read statements by people like Donn Nelson and it seems claer. Obviously teams can change their minds, such as when the Celtics jumped well in the LT area to sign Posey. But no other team has been as insistent on their interest as the Suns.

Early on there was a rumor that PJ was asking for the ufll MLE. This was later changed, but might very well have been their starting point. It seems likely that if the Suns offered a big chunk, say $4 million, he'd sign. Maybe I'm worng, but I'm sure they have not offered that much and if that's his numbe, I'd think the Suns would have taken his retirement seriously

How much is he asking for? Nobody even guesses. My off the wall, wild hunch is that is number is around $3 million. My other, off the wall hunch is that the Suns are offering the same $1.8 million thay gave Hill. When dealing LT, that's a significant difference, but not so much that negotiating might not overcome.

 

[schutd]

As Eric said, Suns fan feel betrayed. At least, those of us who have rooted for our team for 30+ years.

Weve already established that im a 30 year fan. I dont feel betrayed. Im upset at how this off season has played out, but seeing Eric this upset is interesting to me. Youre always crabby, but something must be REAL wrong for E to be this POed. Believe me, I'm crabbier than normal, but maybe I just dont place as much of an emphasis in watching sports to feel betrayed. I dont know.

 

[Mainstreet]

BC, I really don't see it being a matter of "going small" as it is more going cheaper. We traded away James Jones, KT and 3 first round picks for nothing. I'm still trying to figure out how trading away two rotation guys, a good pick in a deep draf and only picking up a guy with a serious history of injuries helps fix the problems DA talked about with us needing to get tougher and deeper? It's really mind boggling to me. Everything this offseason has been about money. I guess I feel the same as Eric and have been in denial. I feel betrayed as well. There, I finally just came out and said it.

Cheesebeef, you and Eric are right on base. Actually I'm in the same boat. I'm thinking the Suns are just waiting for leftovers to fill their roster. If the Suns cannot sign PJ there is always another Marks type player out there.

Maybe I'm the only one, but the thought has occurred to me the new ownership could be stripping the franchise to get it ready for sale for a tidy profit. I would find this thought bizarre except the Suns are liquidating their draft picks and players for money. I'm sure Sarver could turn a very nice profit selling the franchise. It's becoming... show me the money. Maybe this has all been a very nice tryst for Sarver and Kerr is the hatchet man to get the job done. Only time will tell but it's not looking good. I'm so glad BC was able bail out of this situation.

 

[elindholm]

Youre always crabby, but something must be REAL wrong for E to be this POed.

Well, it looked to me like Thomas made an enormous difference against the Spurs. The Suns could have won that series if not for the suspensions -- I'm not saying they would have won, but it was possible, maybe even likely once it got to 2-2. And frankly, before the series started, I didn't think the Suns had much of a chance. Even though Nash was fouled 100 times a game, Marion did his usual disappearing act on offense, and Barbosa couldn't throw it in the ocean, the Suns were right there. To me, Thomas was one of the big reasons why. I know others disagree, but that's how I saw it, and I watched the games pretty carefully.

If I'm the owner of the Suns, sitting on my hundreds of millions of dollars, I say, "Thomas isn't worth $16 million, but you know what, we have some other overpaid guys on this roster too. This team has a good chance to win a title and I want to do everything I can to make it happen." Instead, Sarver and company have decided to trot out a team that, in my opinion, is not a true contender, all in the name of fiscal responsibility.

I mean, jeez, it's like you're out on a date, and you really like the woman you're with, but you tell her that you just can't spring for the champagne, because that wouldn't be financially responsible -- and besides, it's still possible you'll get laid anyway.

Believe me, I'm crabbier than normal, but maybe I just dont place as much of an emphasis in watching sports to feel betrayed.

I don't mean betrayed in any fundamental life sense, of course. But in the context of being a sports fan, this is about as bad as it gets.

 

[azirish]

Well, it was a $16 million dollar bottle...

IMHO, if the Suns sign PJ, I may still wish they had KT but I think they'll be fine. If they screw it up, then I will join you in the "to cheap" chorus.

 

[elindholm]

IMHO, if the Suns sign PJ, I may still wish they had KT but I think they'll be fine.

Whether Brown is on par with Thomas depends on whether he can stay healthy. Thomas, with an excellent health record throughout his career, couldn't run with the Suns. Fortunately, the playoff series with the Spurs was slow enough that he could keep up, but he got hurt in both of his regular seasons in Phoenix. We just don't know how Brown will fare.

Of course, even getting Brown doesn't really absolve the Suns of the poor decision to let Thomas go. If Brown could be had for cheap, the smart thing would have been to carry both him and Thomas on the roster.

There are never any guarantees, but you have to be willing to invest in a good bet.

 

[Chaplin]

Well, it looked to me like Thomas made an enormous difference against the Spurs.

Really? What makes you say that? I didn't think he made all that big of an impact against the Spurs. Enormous?