Kerr on other roster moves

[elindholm]

Really? What makes you say that? I didn't think he made all that big of an impact against the Spurs. Enormous?

Well, like I say, I watched the games pretty carefully, and that's how it looked to me. Basically, it gave the Suns a chance to play straight-up defense and get an occasional defensive rebound. Duncan still scored on Thomas, of course, but at least the Suns could compete on that end of the floor. When Thomas wasn't in, the Spurs went inside at will, and even when they missed, they regularly got second and third opportunities.

So, yeah, I'd say the difference was enormous. And actually, that's what the overwhelming majority of this board said too, during Games 2-4 of the series, two of which the Suns won. It was only after the suspensions put an early end to the Suns' season, prompting ownership to jettison Thomas for cash, that most of the board suddenly got amnesia and decided that he really didn't matter that much after all.

 

[mribnik]

I think Kurt Thomas made an enormous difference against the Spurs but it really had nothing to do with his ability to handle Duncan. Duncan still had his way with Thomas, but Thomas allowed Amare to guard someone other than Duncan. His value defensively was in the fact that he was a competent big that D'Antoni was willing to play. I think signing Brown would be a huge signing and probably an upgrade for the Suns defensively. He's longer than KT and the Suns really need length. He'd probably be a downgrade offensively though, because his ass isn't nearly as big as KT's (used for setting picks).

 

[fordronken]

I can't help thinking about the story of the philosopher who asked a woman if she would sleep with a man for a million dollars. She thinks about and then reluctantly agrees. Then asks if she would sleep with him for $100. "What kind of girl do you think I am". He replies, "We've established that, now we are simply dickering over price".

If PJ Brown is absolutely certain he wants to retire, he can either tell his agent to stop taking calls or announce publicly it's full MLE or nothing (close enough to absolutely positively)

NBA is a business. I don't hold it against PJ that he wants more money. Since most of what I'm tracking is from what his agent is saying, it may very well be that he's leaning harder toward retirement and it's all his agent that keeps this going. IMHO, if he was dead set on retirement, I think he'd tell his agent to cool it.

Equally, I think his thoughts of retirement are real. He doesn't need the money and the grind of an NBA season is pretty rough. He'lln down more money for one year most of us will make in a lifetime, so I'm sure he'd be happy to retire if he doesn't get what he wants.

Why do I think the rest are not offering more than vet minimum? Go back and read statements by people like Donn Nelson and it seems claer. Obviously teams can change their minds, such as when the Celtics jumped well in the LT area to sign Posey. But no other team has been as insistent on their interest as the Suns.

Early on there was a rumor that PJ was asking for the ufll MLE. This was later changed, but might very well have been their starting point. It seems likely that if the Suns offered a big chunk, say $4 million, he'd sign. Maybe I'm worng, but I'm sure they have not offered that much and if that's his numbe, I'd think the Suns would have taken his retirement seriously

How much is he asking for? Nobody even guesses. My off the wall, wild hunch is that is number is around $3 million. My other, off the wall hunch is that the Suns are offering the same $1.8 million thay gave Hill. When dealing LT, that's a significant difference, but not so much that negotiating might not overcome.

People keep treating this like PJ is the one who's asking for a certain amount of money. It is absolutely in his agent's best interest to try to get the maximum amount of money possible for his client without jeopordizing his ability to land on the team that he wants to. While PJ is making up his mind, why wouldn't his agent try to get him more money? Is PJ going to say "no, don't go for more money"? That's why atheletes, producers, writers, directors and actors have agents. Because someone else can go out there and handle everything financial. All PJ has to do is decide if and where he wants to play. It would be stupid if his agent just sat on his hands and said "well, we can only get the minimum."

 

[azirish]

People keep treating this like PJ is the one who's asking for a certain amount of money. It is absolutely in his agent's best interest to try to get the maximum amount of money possible for his client without jeopordizing his ability to land on the team that he wants to. While PJ is making up his mind, why wouldn't his agent try to get him more money? Is PJ going to say "no, don't go for more money"? That's why atheletes, producers, writers, directors and actors have agents. Because someone else can go out there and handle everything financial. All PJ has to do is decide if and where he wants to play. It would be stupid if his agent just sat on his hands and said "well, we can only get the minimum."

Agents have two interests.

1. Get his clieet signed with a team he wants to play for.

2. Get the maximum money he can for the client.

For a quality player, it is easy to do #1 if he's willing to play for the minimu. It is much harder to get maximum money from the team he wants to play for in the age of luxury tax.

One thing that confuses the process is that agents don't get paid anything if a guy retires. PJ may really be leaning toward retiremnet, but his agent wants him to sign with someone for something. However, his agent will use the threat of retirement for all it's worth.

 

[fordronken]

Agents have two interests.

1. Get his clieet signed with a team he wants to play for.

2. Get the maximum money he can for the client.

For a quality player, it is easy to do #1 if he's willing to play for the minimu. It is much harder to get maximum money from the team he wants to play for in the age of luxury tax.

One thing that confuses the process is that agents don't get paid anything if a guy retires. PJ may really be leaning toward retiremnet, but his agent wants him to sign with someone for something. However, his agent will use the threat of retirement for all it's worth.

Yeah, but while PJ is deciding, why wouldn't the agent use that time, and the premise itself, to try to get more money out of the teams PJ is considering?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, like I say, I watched the games pretty carefully, and that's how it looked to me. Basically, it gave the Suns a chance to play straight-up defense and get an occasional defensive rebound. Duncan still scored on Thomas, of course, but at least the Suns could compete on that end of the floor. When Thomas wasn't in, the Spurs went inside at will, and even when they missed, they regularly got second and third opportunities.

So, yeah, I'd say the difference was enormous. And actually, that's what the overwhelming majority of this board said too, during Games 2-4 of the series, two of which the Suns won. It was only after the suspensions put an early end to the Suns' season, prompting ownership to jettison Thomas for cash, that most of the board suddenly got amnesia and decided that he really didn't matter that much after all.

e, i think the majority of the board still agrees with your assessment, but there are a lot of fans that where fan-colored-glasses that don't want to admit the inevitable, that this was a bad BASKETBALL move and that the suns are still as good as they were.

even a role player can make an enormous difference depending on his role and the needs of the team. kurt's ability to just make duncan WORK offensively AND defensively was a big thing. was he still effective? of course. he's tim friggin' duncan. but the amount of effort he had to expend offensively on kurt was taking a toll. it started to show on the defensive end in my opinion.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Agents have two interests.

1. Get his clieet signed with a team he wants to play for.

2. Get the maximum money he can for the client.

For a quality player, it is easy to do #1 if he's willing to play for the minimu. It is much harder to get maximum money from the team he wants to play for in the age of luxury tax.

One thing that confuses the process is that agents don't get paid anything if a guy retires. PJ may really be leaning toward retiremnet, but his agent wants him to sign with someone for something. However, his agent will use the threat of retirement for all it's worth.

not entirely true in this day and age. agents are so much more than they used to be. in today's world most agents are really "handlers." their role goes far beyond the negotiating of contracts. most continue professional relationships with their clients well after their professional careers come to a close.

 

[azirish]

not entirely true in this day and age. agents are so much more than they used to be. in today's world most agents are really "handlers." their role goes far beyond the negotiating of contracts. most continue professional relationships with their clients well after their professional careers come to a close.

Point taken. I'm still not sure how this alters my read on it which is that the Suns can have PJ if they are willing to pay his price, which so far they have not been willing to do.