Kings @ Suns 12-4-18

[1Sun]

The issue there is Kokoskov himself. You can hear it plain as day in his post game press conferences. He repeats the same nonsense over and over. "The team's energy was low. The effort wasn't there. They didn't follow the gameplan." I know that is coach speak and not much different than what other coaches say after a bad loss but Kokoskov doesn't have the experience to prove he's provided the players with a winning gameplan. The only games we've won have required 3-4 of our players having great games and typically one or two of the opposing team's starters to be missing or playing awful. Someone needs to push him in a presser as to what the gameplan is, highlighting one of the stupid things he did during that game. "Why did your #1 overall pick only get 6 shots when your top 2 scorers are out and he's proven to be a very efficient scorer when he's given the opportunity?" sort of a thing.

If we continually play without effort then that is on Kokoskov. It's the coaches job to get his players prepared and ready to go. If it was occasional, fine, but it's the norm for us to be lethargic. I think the roster has quit on him, especially the vets. All of our vets except Crawford have played terrible here this year. Chandler is an example of showing it's not an issue of them being too old or done but they have no drive here. Perhaps the vets have tuned Kokoskov out. The only players that have looked good this year have been the rookies and they don't know any better. Opposing teams also don't have much of a scouting report on them to properly gameplan for them. Now they've played enough that teams know how to counter them and what to look for, what's happened? Bridges has vanished and Ayton is being neutralized.

Even though our vets don't give much effort Kokoskov refuses to reduce their roles, see Ariza, Chandler, Canaan. Anderson is the only vet whose role has really changed and I think the only reason it did has to do with TJ playing so well that he couldn't be denied minutes any longer while Anderson started and saw 25-30 minutes a game. Chandler and Canaan were waived and everyone knows that Ariza will be traded December 15th. Surely Kokoskov has to know his seat is heating up. After Ariza is dealt then he won't have much room for excuses and player development will clearly be the main goal throughout the end of the year. If we don't start seeing improvement from our young players soon, even getting them back to preseason form, then Kokoskov has got to go.

I concur completely with this, with only one exception:

Given that the young players are currently getting progressively worse and worse, what makes you think there is any chance at all that they suddenly start improving again, even to get back to preseason form, under Igor Kokoskov?

 

[1tinsoldier]

well, the good news is:
when posters are aspiring to get back to preseason form
we must have bottomed out

it can only get better from here
...uh, when Booker and TJ are back

and a couple weeks after that
we'll bottom out again
because when players lose respect for their coach there can be no real recovery

ultimately we'll be rewarded with a top pick.
if it's Zion, we'll say it was worthwhile

 

[Hoop Head]

well, the good news is:
when posters are aspiring to get back to preseason form
we must have bottomed out

it can only get better from here
...uh, when Booker and TJ are back

and a couple weeks after that
we'll bottom out again
because when players lose respect for their coach there can be no real recovery

ultimately we'll be rewarded with a top pick.
if it's Zion, we'll say it was worthwhile

Just like how Ayton seemed worthwhile. It means nothing if we can't help someone like Zion, or Ayton, improve from the players they were in college. It's worse because we get to see them mismanaged for a couple years before we see them leave for greener pastures and flourish elsewhere.

We're between a G-League team and a real NBA team right now. All we're good for is getting young players reps against NBA competition and keeping their salaries low for whoever signs them or trades for them so they can have them when they're entering their prime. Or we can overpay them ourselves and watch them put up great numbers that are meaningless. Both options suck.

 

[Magnus]

This team is frustrating because there are no signs of progress or a clear direction going forward.

It was supposed to be exciting watching the young core try to grab some wins this season, but instead it's just torture. To actually have a chance 2-3 of our players need to be outstanding and 2-3 of the opponent players need to have a bad night. If the opposing team is playing their average game we have no chance whatsoever.

If we go down by 15 you can just feel there is no way of coming back in the game, because there's no one on the team that can get you back. Everyone just stops caring and goes through the game like it's a training session.

I think Okobo, Bridges and hopefully Jackson will be serviceable players in 2-3 years, but this is only with proper development. Booker needs to properly heal up and he needs help real bad. Ayton is not used properly in the offense, but I think the fear that he will turn out like Olowokandi is not justified, his numbers are still good. From the rest of the lot I only really like Holmes as a back up, everyone else is G-league material.
Anderson is absolutely abysmal across the board, and I can't see anyone taking him off our hands. At least we could get a pick or something for Ariza.

I still hope there is a way to turn it around. I mean, Philadelphia had a couple of awful years and they had a lot of draft busts in their process, but they managed to turn it into a positive in the end. This team needs a couple of pieces that will gel with our core, but I'm not convinced our management is competent enough to recognize what those pieces are.

 

[Bufalay]

That is one hilarious typo.

Definitely intentional

 

[Yuma]

I don't recall any post like that. And there is nothing online about a change.

Earlier this year, there was a rumor online that Sarver was selling, but he later denied it. The last time I checked, Sarver owns 30% of the Suns and, because no one owns more, he is the Managing General Partner.

When I sent letters to the other investors, urging them to put their 70% together and remove him as Managing Partner, another ASFN poster said that they are all Sarver's boys. He's made them rich in the banking business, especially in San Diego. I received no response, of course. Nor when I wrote similar letters to NBA Commissioner Adam Silver or to Jerry Colangelo, who picked Sarver to be his successor.

I am curious where you read that his ownership percentage was changing. Or how it would make a difference.

Somewhere I read, and I thought it was here, that he was actually down to 21%-22%. I was trying to tell my son that he actually was a smaller percentage than what people thought. Plus, I pointed out that no way he writes a check for $400 million out of his own pocket to own the Suns.

 

[95pro]

Bridges lately, his shooting woes are from him twisting his body. Much the same issue TJ had last year. TJ still twists every now and then but lately Bridges has been doing it on nearly every shot.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

The issue there is Kokoskov himself. You can hear it plain as day in his post game press conferences. He repeats the same nonsense over and over. "The team's energy was low. The effort wasn't there. They didn't follow the gameplan." I know that is coach speak and not much different than what other coaches say after a bad loss but Kokoskov doesn't have the experience to prove he's provided the players with a winning gameplan. The only games we've won have required 3-4 of our players having great games and typically one or two of the opposing team's starters to be missing or playing awful. Someone needs to push him in a presser as to what the gameplan is, highlighting one of the stupid things he did during that game. "Why did your #1 overall pick only get 6 shots when your top 2 scorers are out and he's proven to be a very efficient scorer when he's given the opportunity?" sort of a thing.

The gameplan was obviously to go to Ayton. They did the first 3 times down the court. It resulted in one pass out, two turnovers, and one score. The score was on a pick and roll. The turnovers were on Ayton, as was the pass back out. I have tried to make this point. He is not strong enough to play a traditional post right now. He is not nearly as strong as the guys he goes up against (except maybe AD, but experience trumps size there). He has to get a "stronger" base. I put stronger in quotes because it seems a combo of actual strength and desire. Hopefully both are gained as the season/offseason continues. He scores off the pick and roll/pop and rebounds/putbacks. Re-watch the game (not recommended, but...). His scores are on the pick and roll action because that is how he CAN (somewhat reliably) score right now. I am 100% positive that the staff would like it the other way. They tried it - he was getting manhandled by WCS!!! Now, there are numerous times when the guards should have hit him and numerous times when they shouldn't have tried - they seem to get those backwards.

If we continually play without effort then that is on Kokoskov. It's the coaches job to get his players prepared and ready to go.

Get them prepared with a gameplan, practice, etc, sure. Get them "fired up"? I disagree. And I think every player would tell you the same. Does then coach get your praise when they started actually playing harder as the game went on? I doubt it, because that wouldn't fit the narrative. I DO think he needs to stress fundamentals much more (everyone boxes out on a shot, the PG comes for the ball and doesn't run down the court when Ayton gets the rebound) and simplify the plan so that they aren't thinking so much as reacting.

 

[Ronin]

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[devilalum]

Here’s the thing. When I watch the Suns game after game like I have for almost 50 years I don’t expect them to always win but I do expect to be entertained.

That expectation is no longer being met.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yep, I can’t fault him. How does Ayton end the game with 0 fouls when we were being made laughingstocks? Put somebody on their butt! You can’t allow a team to come in and have a party in your house.

I noticed that too. And I think no blocks. No blocks and no fouls means one thing . . . complete passivity.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

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ugh... the end of this vid perhaps sums up his mentality. "You're down by that much that early, there is no way you're getting back into the game". I hope he was just misstating what he meant to say.

 

[Bufalay]

The gameplan was obviously to go to Ayton. They did the first 3 times down the court. It resulted in one pass out, two turnovers, and one score. The score was on a pick and roll. The turnovers were on Ayton, as was the pass back out. I have tried to make this point. He is not strong enough to play a traditional post right now. He is not nearly as strong as the guys he goes up against (except maybe AD, but experience trumps size there). He has to get a "stronger" base. I put stronger in quotes because it seems a combo of actual strength and desire. Hopefully both are gained as the season/offseason continues. He scores off the pick and roll/pop and rebounds/putbacks. Re-watch the game (not recommended, but...). His scores are on the pick and roll action because that is how he CAN (somewhat reliably) score right now. I am 100% positive that the staff would like it the other way. They tried it - he was getting manhandled by WCS!!! Now, there are numerous times when the guards should have hit him and numerous times when they shouldn't have tried - they seem to get those backwards.


Get them prepared with a gameplan, practice, etc, sure. Get them "fired up"? I disagree. And I think every player would tell you the same. Does then coach get your praise when they started actually playing harder as the game went on? I doubt it, because that wouldn't fit the narrative. I DO think he needs to stress fundamentals much more (everyone boxes out on a shot, the PG comes for the ball and doesn't run down the court when Ayton gets the rebound) and simplify the plan so that they aren't thinking so much as reacting.

I totally agree with your characterization of his offensive limitations. He has a tough time getting post position and isn’t able to back down a defender.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

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ugh... the end of this vid perhaps sums up his mentality. "You're down by that much that early, there is no way you're getting back into the game". I hope he was just misstating what he meant to say.

Ugh is right. Even if that’s your mind frame you just don’t say it. You’ve essentially told your future opponents, “I’m not mentally tough. You jump on me I’ll quit.”

The hard thing for me is that he’s so damn nice. He’s likable. And every time I hear him speak I’m reminded of how young he is. I don’t want to be harsh with him. But the truth is, he’s getting paid millions of dollars to play a game. It’s time to grow up and grow a pair buddy.

 

[1Sun]

Ugh is right. Even if that’s your mind frame you just don’t say it. You’ve essentially told your future opponents, “I’m not mentally tough. You jump on me I’ll quit.”

The hard thing for me is that he’s so damn nice. He’s likable. And every time I hear him speak I’m reminded of how young he is. I don’t want to be harsh with him. But the truth is, he’s getting paid millions of dollars to play a game. It’s time to grow up and grow a pair buddy.

The problem is that Ayton's mentality here is precisely the mentality of his head coach...

 

[Mainstreet]

This team is frustrating because there are no signs of progress or a clear direction going forward.

It was supposed to be exciting watching the young core try to grab some wins this season, but instead it's just torture. To actually have a chance 2-3 of our players need to be outstanding and 2-3 of the opponent players need to have a bad night. If the opposing team is playing their average game we have no chance whatsoever.

If we go down by 15 you can just feel there is no way of coming back in the game, because there's no one on the team that can get you back. Everyone just stops caring and goes through the game like it's a training session.

I think Okobo, Bridges and hopefully Jackson will be serviceable players in 2-3 years, but this is only with proper development. Booker needs to properly heal up and he needs help real bad. Ayton is not used properly in the offense, but I think the fear that he will turn out like Olowokandi is not justified, his numbers are still good. From the rest of the lot I only really like Holmes as a back up, everyone else is G-league material.
Anderson is absolutely abysmal across the board, and I can't see anyone taking him off our hands. At least we could get a pick or something for Ariza.

I still hope there is a way to turn it around. I mean, Philadelphia had a couple of awful years and they had a lot of draft busts in their process, but they managed to turn it into a positive in the end. This team needs a couple of pieces that will gel with our core, but I'm not convinced our management is competent enough to recognize what those pieces are.

The thought of Olowokandi has passed through my mind when I think about the worse case scenario for Ayton.

I have ardently suppressed it. It's worrisome others have thought about it as well.

 

[Mainstreet]

The fans should stop going to games until Sarver puts a competitive team on the court. Maybe we can freeze him out and force him to sell. It’s already half empty. Make it completely empty. That would send a message. I’m not buying any more Suns merchandise until Sarver sells or puts a competitive team on the court. We’ve easily got the worst front office in the league. At least we had The Timeline before. Sarver even took that away from us. We are currently rudderless with no signs of things getting better.

As much as I had hoped McDonough was part of the answer, he was part of the problem. His moves as the Suns GM sank the team.

A timeline only works when a team is being built by making the right moves. This didn't happen.

Most of his drafts, coaching hires and free agent moves have been disasters. This years team has regressed if this is even possible.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The thought of Olowokandi has passed through my mind when I think about the worse case scenario for Ayton.

I have ardently suppressed it. It's worrisome others have thought about it as well.

He is already better than Kandi. I think of Benoit Benjamin. A guy who gets numbers but makes little impact. I’m not saying that’s who Ayton is or who I expect him to be, but that’s my worst case worry.

 

[Superbone]

Ugh is right. Even if that’s your mind frame you just don’t say it. You’ve essentially told your future opponents, “I’m not mentally tough. You jump on me I’ll quit.”

The hard thing for me is that he’s so damn nice. He’s likable. And every time I hear him speak I’m reminded of how young he is. I don’t want to be harsh with him. But the truth is, he’s getting paid millions of dollars to play a game. It’s time to grow up and grow a pair buddy.

He needs to listen to the Eddie Johnson broadcast. You get down big, you don't quit. Get mad. Put somebody on their butt. Whittle at the lead little by little. Did he not see the Lakers come back from down big by the end of the first quarter just the previous game?!

 

[Mainstreet]

He is already better than Kandi. I think of Benoit Benjamin. A guy who gets numbers but makes little impact. I’m not saying that’s who Ayton is or who I expect him to be, but that’s my worst case worry.

I agree. Benoit Benjamin is a more likely worse case scenario.

 

[1Sun]

I agree. Benoit Benjamin is a more likely worse case scenario.

And as irony would have it, the Suns have become this generation's version of Benjamin's Clippers teams...

 

[Mainstreet]

He needs to listen to the Eddie Johnson broadcast. You get down big, you don't quit. Get mad. Put somebody on their butt. Whittle at the lead little by little. Did he not see the Lakers come back from down big by the end of the first quarter just the previous game?!

I'd rather have Ayton listen to Tom Chambers. Eddie is too nice. He needs to hear it straight.

 

[Chaplin]

He is already better than Kandi. I think of Benoit Benjamin. A guy who gets numbers but makes little impact. I’m not saying that’s who Ayton is or who I expect him to be, but that’s my worst case worry.

On the bright side, if he's Benoit Benjamin NOW, then that's a great sign. He's only what--23 games into his career? I'd say that's pretty good.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

On the bright side, if he's Benoit Benjamin NOW, then that's a great sign. He's only what--23 games into his career? I'd say that's pretty good.

I don’t think you understand my point. Benoit remained Benoit. My concern is Ayton remains what he is now.

 

[Chaplin]

I don’t think you understand my point. Benoit remained Benoit. My concern is Ayton remains what he is now.

And what exactly is he? Keep in mind, it's only 23 games into his career. People seem to be ignoring that and thinking the sky is falling. Not exactly a surprise considering the state of this team, but he has really become THE punching bag, especially in the last 2 weeks or so.