Kings @ Suns Tuesday game thread 1-7-20

[WildBB]

A team needs backup players. Ours didn't produce. However, I'm not fond of the rotations.

Baynes will be going to the bench, imo.

 

[Ronin]

Gina Mizell
@ginamizell

After last night’s game, I asked Aron Baynes what he said to Deandre Ayton during the first-half timeout when Ayton angrily kicked the bench coming off the floor. Baynes immediately went over to him and put his arm around him for a spirited one-sided chat...




Gina Mizell
@ginamizell
·
3m

Replying to
@ginamizell
Baynes: “You guys see how much of a presence he was to start the game. That’s what we need from him throughout the entire game. That’s what I just reiterated to him. I said, ‘Look, some things don’t work. That’s all right. Just go out there (and) do the next right thing.’” #Suns

 

[Ronin]

Gina Mizell
@ginamizell
·
4m

More Baynes: “Usually that’s him going out, being a big presence on the offensive end and controlling the paint on the defensive end. ... It’s an emotional game. There’s some ups and downs. And we love it, because he plays with his heart on his sleeve.“ #Suns




Gina Mizell
@ginamizell
·
4m

More Baynes: “It’s a great thing for us. It brings us a lot of energy. But sometimes, it’s just gotta focus it in the right way. He was able to do that again. It’s a credit to him getting that emotional but being able to reel it in and till do the right thing for the team.” #Suns

 

[Ronin]

Gina Mizell
@ginamizell
·
3m

We asked Cam after the game: “It’s just me. I’ve got to figure it out...it’ll break, sooner than later. I’m getting shots that I usually make. They’re running me off, but I’ve been run off the line for the past 10 years. It’s not a new thing. It’s not a new scout.“ #Suns

 

[Ronin]

Gina Mizell
@ginamizell
·
3m

More Cam: “Guys are definitely more athletic, (have more) length, close out better. But there’s also more spacing on the court. I don’t always have somebody hugging up next to me like I’ve had in previous years. Like I said, it all comes down to me.” #Suns

 

[1Sun]

Gina Mizell
@ginamizell
·
3m

More Cam: “Guys are definitely more athletic, (have more) length, close out better. But there’s also more spacing on the court. I don’t always have somebody hugging up next to me like I’ve had in previous years. Like I said, it all comes down to me.” #Suns

Well, at least Cam recognizes how much he sucks on the NBA level.

Like I said...nice guy, smart guy, but zero NBA-level physical ability.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

We basically played an entire line-up of back-ups! The top 3 stars for the Kings we're all out! What happened last night is the equivalent of the Suns going to Sac-Town, without Ayton, Booker & Oubre, getting down 21 points in the 3rd quarter and producing a come-back to win... not by 1 or 2 points, but by 11!!!!
Sickening...

I am quite frustrated as well, and I wish to excuse no Suns for that embarrassment last night, but Bagley, Bogdonovic and Holmes are not their top three stars. They are good players. Calling Fox and Hield and Barnes (although he sucked last night) back-ups is disingenuous. And Bjelica is a nice player.
To me, there is a common denominator on these teams that keep beating the Suns. Their benches, and specifically their point guards off of the bench.

 

[WildBB]

Arizzzaaaa played like he has something to prove here....LUDICROUS!

 

[Cheesebeef]

I respectfully disagree there. I’m not saying it to give him excuses but there is only one way to get into basketball shape, and that is to play real basketball, which he hasn’t done much of. The rest of the league is in midseason form. Doesn’t matter how much you work out. We just saw that with Patrick Peterson. I don’t doubt he worked out hard but he wasn’t playing real games. He was definitely behind the eight ball. Call him what you want, I don’t disagree, but you can’t expect him to be on the same level right now conditioning wise as a majority of the league.


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he wasn't conditioned last year in the second half of games either. what we saw last night was a carbon copy of so many games last season where he'd jump out to a 8-10 point/6 rebound 1st quarter and then do 8/6 for the entirety of the rest of the game.

just looks like more of the same for me.

 

[1Sun]

he wasn't conditioned last year in the second half of games either. what we saw last night was a carbon copy of so many games last season where he'd jump out to a 8-10 point/6 rebound 1st quarter and then do 8/6 for the entirety of the rest of the game.

just looks like more of the same for me.

I am going to get a lot of flack for saying this, but I wonder if there is an underlying cardiac or pulmonary issue with Ayton that affects his stamina in games.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Cam.... Not athletic enough. We already knew that.

WTH is up with Mikal????

And finally...... Superstars do not allow leads like that to be lost.

Such a downer man..... Kings and the Wiz. So ugly.

 

[1Sun]

Cam.... Not athletic enough. We already knew that.

WTH is up with Mikal????

And finally...... Superstars do not allow leads like that to be lost.

Such a downer man..... Kings and the Wiz. So ugly.

What's scary is this:

Not even getting into the Ayton versus Luka debate, replace Mikal Bridges with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Elie Okobo with Jalen Brunson, and either Cam Johnson and Dario Saric with Jaxson Hayes or just Cam Johnson with Brandon Clarke or P.J. Washington, and hang on to the Milwaukee first round pick instead of trading it for Ty Jerome and Aron Baynes, and perhaps even hang on to T.J. Warren in the process, and how much better off would we be?

As bad as the 2016 and 2017 drafts were, the last two drafts have pretty much destroyed this franchise.

How James Jones is still the GM is beyond me...

 

[WildBB]

What's scary is this:

Not even getting into the Ayton versus Luka debate, replace Mikal Bridges with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Elie Okobo with Jalen Brunson, and either Cam Johnson and Dario Saric with Jaxson Hayes or just Cam Johnson with Brandon Clarke or P.J. Washington, and hang on to the Milwaukee first round pick instead of trading it for Ty Jerome and Aron Baynes, and perhaps even hang on to T.J. Warren in the process, and how much better off would we be?

As bad as the 2016 and 2017 drafts were, the last two drafts have pretty much destroyed this franchise.

How James Jones is still the GM is beyond me...

Your quite the 2020 know it all. Yeah some of these players would've helped more. Suns are a SOFT team YET STILL. Teams know this that come in here. They play a tough 48 for the most part against us, cause they know we'll eventually cave sooner or later.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

Cam.... Not athletic enough. We already knew that.

WTH is up with Mikal????

And finally...... Superstars do not allow leads like that to be lost.

Such a downer man..... Kings and the Wiz. So ugly.

Superstar was on the bench while it was happening. Just saying.

 

[1Sun]

Your quite the 2020 know it all. Yeah some of these players would've helped more. Suns are a SOFT team YET STILL. Teams know this that come in here. They play a tough 48 for the most part against us, cause they know we'll eventually cave sooner or later.

Well, look at the 2019 offseason acquisitions. Just about every one of them is soft. Who we didn't get hurts, but who we DID get hurts even more. James Jones did us no favors there...

 

[WildBB]

Well, look at the 2019 offseason acquisitions. Just about every one of them is soft. Who we didn't get hurts, but who we DID get hurts even more. James Jones did us no favors there...

Yeah, they got who they could for a year or so. It wasn't the long term outlook last season, just hopefully a stepping stone to this coming off season when they should be able to make better offers. Even Oubre only got a two yr. deal last year. There's obviously much work to do, and I'm pretty sure K. Love won't solve the issues here, only complicate them. So...there's that. They haven't yet caved completely. Some other moves they didn't make. Hopefully there's someone besides only Baynes that can give them more GRIT/toughness going into next season, who have a balanced game to them.
I wanted them to keep Holmes but there may have been more issues there than meets the eye.

 

[Mainstreet]

Baynes will be going to the bench, imo.

It looks like this is exactly what will happen. I don't think the Ayton and Baynes lineup was that effective. Using Baynes as a backup center gives the Suns more size when Ayton goes to the bench.

 

[CRC83]

+\- is by no means a perfect indicator of performance, but Ayton (-14), Oubre(-14) and Rubio(-19) had the worst on the team. Booker at 0.

 

[1Sun]

Yeah, they got who they could for a year or so. It wasn't the long term outlook last season, just hopefully a stepping stone to this coming off season when they should be able to make better offers. Even Oubre only got a two yr. deal last year. There's obviously much work to do, and I'm pretty sure K. Love won't solve the issues here, only complicate them. So...there's that. They haven't yet caved completely. Some other moves they didn't make. Hopefully there's someone besides only Baynes that can give them more GRIT/toughness going into next season, who have a balanced game to them.
I wanted them to keep Holmes but there may have been more issues there than meets the eye.

My biggest issue is bringing in guys like Saric, Kaminsky, Cam and Jerome with no toughness or athleticism to balance or counter it. All soft, streaky outside shooters who contribute nothing else. That is roughly one-third of our current rotation. And Rubio isn't exactly known for being tough or athletic, so that makes almost one-half of our rotation being comprised of soft, unathletic players. This above all else is why we are in this current mess, in my opinion.

 

[JerkFace]

I don’t think a lot of high talent players were clamoring to come to the Suns. Last years rosters was devoid of nba talent. It seems like James’ first focus was to just get some actual NBA players on the team. As we progress to the trade deadline, and next offseason I would expect him to try to upgrade to some actual good NBA players. If James doesn’t accomplish this then I will be overly critical of him. It is a process though. The first step of the process was getting us from a .232 to a .378 winning percentage (I’m in no way claiming .378 is good). As long as I see continued improvement (not over reacting to the ups and downs of the season) then I am will to give James time. In addition to rebuilding the on court product, James has also had to try to repair the Suns off court reputation. He seems to be making progress in this as well (probably better than the on court progress).

 

[1Sun]

I don’t think a lot of high talent players were clamoring to come to the Suns. Last years rosters was devoid of nba talent. It seems like James’ first focus was to just get some actual NBA players on the team. As we progress to the trade deadline, and next offseason I would expect him to try to upgrade to some actual good NBA players. If James doesn’t accomplish this then I will be overly critical of him. It is a process though. The first step of the process was getting us from a .232 to a .378 winning percentage (I’m in no way claiming .378 is good). As long as I see continued improvement (not over reacting to the ups and downs of the season) then I am will to give James time. In addition to rebuilding the on court product, James has also had to try to repair the Suns off court reputation. He seems to be making progress in this as well (probably better than the on court progress).

That is why it was critical to draft contributors, and James Jones failed miserably in that regard. He has tunnel vision in terms of putting a roster together (shooting/scoring and nothing else). And in case you haven't noticed, if you take away the 7-4 start, this team is in fact closer to .232 than to .378, and it is trending in the wrong direction as we speak.

He already took this team a major step backward on draft night. Why should I trust him not to do the same again, especially given the drivel he served up on the radio yesterday?

 

[JerkFace]

That is why it was critical to draft contributors, and James Jones failed miserably in that regard.

I don’t disagree that there were much better options (3 PF taken soon after could each of each helped solve some of our issues) but I do disagree that Cam doesn’t have on court value on this team. I try not to make good the enemy of great, but it was definitely a missed opportunity.

 

[1Sun]

I don’t disagree that there were much better options (3 PF taken soon after could each of each helped solve some of our issues) but I do disagree that Cam doesn’t have on court value on this team. I try not to make good the enemy of great, but it was definitely a missed opportunity.

Even Cam himself admitted last night he is having difficulty figuring it out in the NBA. And he has done nothing positive in the last several games. There is an off chance he can overcome his athletic deficiencies and be an NBA role player someday, but as of right now he is a waste of a roster spot and a big reason our bench struggles so much.

And he is about to turn 24, so there really isn't much room for further development.

 

[JerkFace]

Even Cam himself admitted last night he is having difficulty figuring it out in the NBA. And he has done nothing positive in the last several games. There is an off chance he can overcome his athletic deficiencies and be an NBA role player someday, but as of right now he is a waste of a roster spot and a big reason our bench struggles so much.

And he is about to turn 24, so there really isn't much room for further development.

That’s a pretty bad misquote of what he said. He admitted he was going through a slump, and needs to adjust to how defensives have adjusted to him. This is far from a rare rookie issue. His month of December was probably in the top 10-15 of the draft class.

 

[1Sun]

That’s a pretty bad misquote of what he said. He admitted he was going through a slump, and needs to adjust to how defensives have adjusted to him. This is far from a rare rookie issue. His month of December was probably in the top 10-15 of the draft class.

As a straight catch-and-shoot player, how is he supposed to adjust? And even if he does, how does that make up for the fact that he doesn't have the physical tools to defend or put the ball on the floor in the NBA? (BTW, ironically, his statements last night are pretty much an admission that he has been rushing his shot because the more athletic players in the NBA have been getting in his face more quickly. Then again, if you look at the tape, that much is pretty darn obvious. )